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http://gridironnow.com/butch-davis-fiu-coach/2/“I left a great great job (at Miami) to go to Cleveland to work for Carmen Policy, who had won four Super Bowls, and Al Lerner,” Davis said. “We go to the playoffs my second year, Al Lerner dies of brain cancer and the son (Randy Lerner) takes over and fires Carmen — complete culture change. “The son tells me, ‘We’re no longer doing this my dad’s way.’ His father told me, ‘You got 10 years to turn this franchise around.’ The son says, ‘We’re not doing one thing the way that my father did.’ “We just went to the playoffs six weeks ago. He says, ‘You’re $33 million over the salary cap; you got five weeks to get under.’ The only people that you can cut to get under the salary cap are the guys that can play. … Who were the most pissed off (players)? The kids that had to stay, not the guys that lost their job. The kids that had to stay because they’re like, ‘We’re going back to being like an expansion franchise; we got no chance of winning.’ “(Randy Lerner) ended up screwing it up and sold the team after he fired five more head coaches.” I'm not old enough to remember the 80s teams ... my very first memories are of the mid 90s Browns before the move. So, basically, my time as a fan has been complete crap. However, I did love that short amount of time when we were "good" and made the playoffs once. I remember thinking Butch had a shot at building the franchise ... and then we blew the 2nd half lead in Pittsburgh and the franchise has literally never recovered. Randy Lerner certainly didn't help the situation by all accounts.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Junior started the mess that continues to today.
Firing everyone and blowing up the roster over and over and over.
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I remember back to the early 60s.. watched the '64 Championship game with my dad. He was so pissed off that Paul Brown was fired that he became a Bengals fan. Lerner was not the only stupid owner the Browns have had. To be a fan, you have to understand that people make mistakes, either out of ego, pure stupidity, or meaning well, but not getting the job done. We are Browns fans.. we deal with it... LOL
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Funny how the two coaches that had at least 3 seasons are the ones that gave us a winning record.
Call me crazy, but firing coaches every 1-2 years is dumb.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Two sides to every story, but it seems to me that the general perception at the time was that Butch was the one who won a power struggle with Policy and ran him off. Also, IIRC, Lerner didn't fire Policy. Policy quit after selling off his 10% ownership in order to buy a Napa Valley winery. The dialogue Butch attributes to Randy in the article seems totally foreign to the persona Lerner exhibited here - the guy wouldn't even get in front of a microphone or camera to be interviewed, but here he is getting all "alpha dog" with Butch. My BS antenna are sensing some revisionist history here from Butch. It wouldn't be the first time he was truth-challenged, just ask them down at The U or at UNC, or think back to his representation of Holcomb's broken leg ... "a teeny-tiny crack in a non-weight-bearing bone".
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Butch crying...meanwhile everyone on this board disrespected Carmen Policy and Clark.
Everyone knew we were over the Cap and Randy stated the obvious we had to blow it all up cause we went heavy on FA. We were 33 million over the cap.
Butch had 4 years here and now is blaming it on Randy cause it pretty much ruined his NFL Career.
But the past is the past. you cannot change it.
Ke Sa Ra Sa Ra
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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“The son tells me, ‘We’re no longer doing this my dad’s way.’ His father told me, ‘You got 10 years to turn this franchise around.’ The son says, ‘We’re not doing one thing the way that my father did.’ How depressing to read this. To think one person can ruin all the Hope Faith and Pride that was in Browns Fan. I just want to put it all in the past and Hope it stops...Have Faith we see a winning franchise ..And regain the Pride I had in this team.
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I hear you, but there are facts that prove that Junior fired people almost every year. That's what I remember most about his time here.
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I notice Botch didn't mention throwing Fazio under the bus after the meltdown in Pitt.
Someone should ask RJ Bowers about Botch's character. And is it believable that Davis didn't know our salary cap situation after the 2002 season?
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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What? I think spell-check just had a nervous breakdown. I read that four times before I realized you were saying "Que sera, sera", LOL. Just kidding.
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I notice Botch didn't mention throwing Fazio under the bus after the meltdown in Pitt.
Someone should ask RJ Bowers about Botch's character. And is it believable that Davis didn't know our salary cap situation after the 2002 season? RJ Bowers ... the kid from Grove City College? Remember him now ... wow
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Botch worked out Bowwrs, who'd been on the injured list, deemed him healthy enough to take off the list, then cut him.
On Christmas Eve.
gmstrong -----------------
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“I left a great great job (at Miami) to go to Cleveland to work for Carmen Policy, who had won four Super Bowls, and Al Lerner,” Davis said. “We go to the playoffs my second year, Al Lerner dies of brain cancer and the son (Randy Lerner) takes over and fires Carmen — complete culture change.
“The son tells me, ‘We’re no longer doing this my dad’s way.’ His father told me, ‘You got 10 years to turn this franchise around.’ The son says, ‘We’re not doing one thing the way that my father did.’
“We just went to the playoffs six weeks ago. He says, ‘You’re $33 million over the salary cap; you got five weeks to get under.’ The only people that you can cut to get under the salary cap are the guys that can play. … Who were the most pissed off (players)? The kids that had to stay, not the guys that lost their job. The kids that had to stay because they’re like, ‘We’re going back to being like an expansion franchise; we got no chance of winning.’ I just don't remember it coming down that way., I remember Davis bringing in his own Puppet GM and putting us in CAP hell in the first place in an effort to win quickly and he did. Nope, I don't remember it this way at all..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Botch worked out Bowwrs, who'd been on the injured list, deemed him healthy enough to take off the list, then cut him.
On Christmas Eve. that's sad
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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And then when it all fell apart. He quit.
Oh, I'm sorry.
He had health problems.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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“I left a great great job (at Miami) to go to Cleveland to work for Carmen Policy, who had won four Super Bowls, and Al Lerner,” Davis said. “We go to the playoffs my second year, Al Lerner dies of brain cancer and the son (Randy Lerner) takes over and fires Carmen — complete culture change.
“The son tells me, ‘We’re no longer doing this my dad’s way.’ His father told me, ‘You got 10 years to turn this franchise around.’ The son says, ‘We’re not doing one thing the way that my father did.’
“We just went to the playoffs six weeks ago. He says, ‘You’re $33 million over the salary cap; you got five weeks to get under.’ The only people that you can cut to get under the salary cap are the guys that can play. … Who were the most pissed off (players)? The kids that had to stay, not the guys that lost their job. The kids that had to stay because they’re like, ‘We’re going back to being like an expansion franchise; we got no chance of winning.’ I just don't remember it coming down that way., I remember Davis bringing in his own Puppet GM and putting us in CAP hell in the first place in an effort to win quickly and he did. Nope, I don't remember it this way at all.. Both versions are incorrect. Policy, who was very close w/Lerner senior, knew that the latter had brain cancer, and he and the Browns decided to bring in a lot of free agents and spend a lot of money in an attempt to win it all for Al.
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seems there is blame enough for everyone.. I remember Davis being an ego manic that micro managed the entire team and, playoffs for one year notwithstanding, set us on the path of failure.
I remember Lerner's being a spoiled rich kids that no idea what he was doing and when he broke his new toy and found he couldn't fix it with his yearly application of duct tape and super glue, threw it in his toy box and started playing with his new soccer toy.
didn't like either one then or now and trusted them even less.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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You think we'd have bled out by now.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Funny how the two coaches that had at least 3 seasons are the ones that gave us a winning record.
Call me crazy, but firing coaches every 1-2 years is dumb. Every coach who got 5 years had us in the playoffs.
#gmstrong
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Let's pray we end the madness and give Hue time to do his thing.
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Let's pray we end the madness and give Hue time to do his thing. Let's pray we win more then 2 or 3 games this year and more than 6 or 7 next year. And just maybe Hue gets 4 years.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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One of the worst owners in Cleveland sports history other than Ted Stephian
He made the Browns into a league joke
He hired inept people who in turn hired inept people underneath them.
Lerner had no idea how to run a organization
His track record speaks for itself the Browns Aston Villa.
Hes done so much damage to the franchise even drafting well may not be enough to turn it around
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Butch needs to own up.to the fact that he took Gerard Warren over LT
KW2 over Big Ben
Those 2 moves their accelerated the sinking of the franchise
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The picks of Couch and Brown were not as bad as Warren and Green IMO ... at least Couch and Brown weren't cancerous
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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The way I always heard it was...Al was dying and Policy wanted to give Al a winner. So they spent major $$ and did go to the playoff's. However I think All of us knew that we would have to tear it all down and start over. Then Butch Quit.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Butch the coach was solid.
Butch the GM sucked.
Had he had a strong GM over him. We would of been fine.
However, had we had a strong GM, he probably wouldn't have wanted to work with him..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Butch crying...meanwhile everyone on this board disrespected Carmen Policy and Clark.
Everyone knew we were over the Cap and Randy stated the obvious we had to blow it all up cause we went heavy on FA. We were 33 million over the cap.
Butch had 4 years here and now is blaming it on Randy cause it pretty much ruined his NFL Career.
But the past is the past. you cannot change it.
Ke Sa Ra Sa Ra Revisionist history at his best ... - al got cancer - we way overspent in FA that year to take a run at the playoffs before al passed ... - we were WAY OVER THE CAP .. and we weren't that good .. we needed a late season run to make the playoffs .. and I'm not just talking about RUN WILLLIE RUN ...  IMO Randy's only mistake that year was not firing Butch ... he STUNK too ... Randy made bad hires not FIRES ...
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I remember how player would complain that he was treating grown men like little boys and he was ticking off all our veterans and FAs. I think he was a good coach who needed time to adjust to coaching in the NFL vs college. I think he did his best to win it for a dying owner and bailed on his idiot son which I don't blame him for.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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The Browns were going to fire him. He bailed, but that was probably more so he wouldn't have the label of being fired.
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Had a "panic attack" the day we were playing Cincinnati, after being told something by Randy Lerner. What that was has never been divulged, but my best speculation is he was told that a new GM was going to be hired to run the team, player personnel, everything.
Also, wasn't it rumoured that Andre King was a locker room snitch?
gmstrong -----------------
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I think the panic attack was a reaction to being told he was going to be fired. LOL
Yes, you are right about King being rumored to being a locker room snitch, but that is a very subjective term. Almost all coaches have players who let them know the mood of the locker room. Of course, the Cleveland media was all over it to justify yet another change in the organization.
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One of the worst owners in Cleveland sports history other than Ted Stephian
He made the Browns into a league joke
He hired inept people who in turn hired inept people underneath them.
Lerner had no idea how to run a organization
His track record speaks for itself the Browns Aston Villa.
Hes done so much damage to the franchise even drafting well may not be enough to turn it around Burning through coaches every two or three years started with Modell.
#gmstrong
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I don't agree w/that. Collier had 7 years. Sam got 6 years. Marty coached here for 4 years. Belichick was here for four years before we moved to Baltimore. Here is a link if anyone is interested in seeing our history of dysfunction: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/all-time-coaches.html
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close...very close. But the years they do.
Under Model he had 10 coaches from 1946-1995.
Since the return...there's been 9 from 1999 to 2017.
not a good pattern in any means.
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I was wrong and you are right about that.
#gmstrong
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No biggie. Art sucked, too. LOL
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Keeping Hue for at least 4-5 more years is imperative IMO ... we can't keep firing guys. the hard part will be if we're like 1-15 again this year
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Keeping Hue for at least 4-5 more years is imperative IMO That will mean we are winning. I don't agree with keeping him 4-5 more seasons just to keep him. I'd say this season and next season are a given. Not sure how long his contract calls for, but another 4-5 would probably mean another contract.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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but there are facts that prove that Junior fired people almost every year.
And yet we had RAC and Savage there for 4 years...then Mangini came in with the Kokinos fiasco and Randy threw up his hands and decided to get his Carmen in Holmgren which eventually had him sell the team.
Mangini was the only one that was close to Every Year and even he was not as he stayed two years with his OC and DC.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Funny how the two coaches that had at least 3 seasons are the ones that gave us a winning record.
Call me crazy, but firing coaches every 1-2 years is dumb. Every coach who got 5 years had us in the playoffs. I said it earlier ddub ,.. and it even rhymed .. *L* ... Our problem isn't FIRING our problem is HIRING .... at both the FO and HC level ... for the most part, we haven't hired any good ones up til this point ... the proof is in the pudding ... can't remember them all .. but heres a brief synopsis of our hires and there LONG STELLAR CAREERS IN THE SAME POSITIONS with other orgs. ... lets take a quick look ... Policy/Clark - i got run off the board when it first started predicting exactly what these two overrated HORRIBLE FOOTBALL GUYS would do .. they did it ... Policy never had another nfl position ... and to the best of my knowledge neither did Clark ... i know he never became a GM again ... Palmer was his first coach .. he went back to being a qb coach and may have gotten a year or two as an OC ... NEVER RETURNING as a HC in the NFL .. Davis was there second coach ... again ... NEVER even coached in the NFL again .. i believe he just flamed out in college ... or he may still be at one of the acc schools i believe and is doing well .. i think he just got in TROUBLE AGAIN but i could be wrong on that one .. BOTTOM LINE .... he never returned to the nfl .. Who was next .... Opie and Romeo i believe ... Opie is in radio NEVER holding another GM job again ... Romeo is back as a DC and doing his thing at a high level ... NEVER holding another NFL HC jobs ... 3rd tryCoke/Mancini - Coke ended up back in his old Jon in Balt and Jeannie ended up as an offensive quality guy somewhere i believe ... neither have NEVER returned to their position in c-town .. 4th time a charm? .. *L* Holmgren/Shurmer ... the walrus was a HUGE DISSAPOINTMENT ... i for one had high hopes for him ... left here NEVER to be seen again ... Shurmer NEVER returned to a HC position .. he still may .. like 8 years after .. *L* Then it was heckert and then banner/dumbardi and then farmer .... On the coaching side ... chud (who i think will end up a GREAT HC .. ) ... Pett ... am i missing any? .. NONE have gone anywhere and done ANYTHING .... NONE OF THEM ... just like our QB situation since 99 ... if we didn't live through this CRAP we would think its STATISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO BE THIS INEPT FOR SO LONG ... Sorry guys .. i hate to dissapoint U .. but its the HIRING not the FIRING ... One thing a lot of u don't seem to understand ... Hiring GOOD TALENTED people leads to continuity ... retaining people just for the sake of continuity is A FORMULA FOR FAILURE .... HIRE GOOD PEOPLE ... the problem will go away ...
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