DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Concealed Carry

How do you conceal an M1A1 Abrams, '40? The 120mm makes one heck of a hole though...

On a slightly different sidepoint - if you want to impress upon your kids what a gun is capable of, you show them the hole a 1 oz. slug makes in an animal (deer) that is bigger than your kid is. At least for my kids, it meant something.

There are quite a few cities with a higher per capita violent crime rate and higher per capita murder rate than Chicago. Cleveland is one of them. Chicago gets more attention due to its large population/high overall numbers.

http://crimeresearch.org/2017/02/seven-defensive-gun-uses-people-lawfully-carrying-gun-last/

SEVEN DEFENSIVE GUN USES BY PEOPLE LAWFULLY CARRYING A GUN OVER THE LAST WEEK


Topeka, Kansas, WIBW Channel 13 TV, February 11, 2017:

Topeka Police responded to reports of a stabbing at the Walmart on SE California in Topeka just after 4 p.m. Saturday.

TPD says two men were involved in an altercation, when a third party conceal carry holder intervened and stopped the assault.

“He intervened, drew his firearm, and held the people to the ground basically at gun-point,” said Topeka police Sergeant Joshua Klamm.

One of the men involved in the altercation was stabbed . . . .

New Orleans, LA, WWL Channel 4 TV, February 11, 2017:

A customer foiled an apparent armed robbery at the T-Mobile store on St. Andrew Street, police said, shooting and killing the armed robber. . . .

Chief Michael Harrison said a suspect was attempting to rob the store, when a customer shot and killed the man. Both weapons were retrieved, and the customer is being questioned by police, Harrison said. . . .

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, WPVI channel 6 TV, Thursday, February 09, 2017:

. . . It happened around 8 p.m. Thursday at the 65th and Lebanon Avenue Deli in Overbrook.

Police say a gun-toting man walked into the deli and declared a holdup.

That’s when, police say, the owner pulled out his gun and shot the suspect in the groin.

Police say the owner is licensed to carry. . . .

Police are working to determine if this suspect is responsible for a string of robberies in the area. . . .

Houston, Texas, Channel 2 TV, February 5, 2017. The video with this story describes how the restaurant owner had been robbed multiple times before and had started carrying a gun because of that.

A restaurant owner shot two would-be robbers that jumped out at him as he was leaving the restaurant for the night, police said.

According to officials, the owner of J&S Bar B Que at 8312 Mesa Drive was closing around 10:50 p.m. Saturday.

Two males jumped out from behind a large garbage bin and attempted to rob him, police said.

According to investigators, the owner pulled a gun and shot a couple times at the would-be robbers.

There's more ... for some reason I can't copy and paste anymore ...

Here's a few more.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Ohio-CHL-holders-acting-in-self-defense

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man a statistic.

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

Anyone have any thoughts/experience on "no thumb safety" pistols?

Looking at a S&W M&P Shield 45 with the "no thumb safety" thing. I've only owned thumb safety pistols. This would be mainly for my wife or I as a "point and shoot" home self defense thing.

Thoughts? Experiences?

I recently fired a Glock 45 with the safety built into the trigger. I don't get it and found it a little spooky.

Gun won't fire unless you pull the trigger, well Duh. Wouldn't it do just that if it had no safety at all? Am I missing something here?

Gun porn again?

I wish. Guns are cool.

Tks.

Yep. Doing some research I've found that when seconds/fractions of a second count some defenders have drawn and pulled the trigger with the safety on, losing a valuable 2-3-4 seconds or so.

But it's still good to know that when fractions of a second count the police are only 5 minutes away.

I agree with the speed of shooting without having to thumb for the safety, and I remember stories from back in the day of people needing to shoot, hitting the wrong button while going for the safety, ending up dropping the clip.

I guess my question is if having the safety on the trigger is the same as really having no safety at all.

2 reasons for this: 1, lack of familiarity with their gun, and/or 2, stress. Or some combination of both, truthfully.


I'd love to tell the story about my son, who had shot my handgun/s numerous times, bringing home the first gun he ever purchased.

It was cold out, so instead of shooting in the back yard, we went to an indoor range. I hadn't been there in over a year, he'd never been there.

No problem, but, you first (for the range) need to pass an extremely basic test. Target at 7 yards, 6 rounds in the gun. Fire and hit the target 5 times, then stop and clear the gun.

An employee was there to watch. I knew my son was nervous, so I said I'd go first. And told my son to watch closely at what I did.

5 shots, on target. Drop the mag, cycle the action, popping the last round out. Visual inspection, put gun down, employee checks it. No problem.

Son's turn. This wasn't shooting in the back yard with dad. He was shaking. Stress. (and again, he was a beginner, no doubt).

When I took my ccw class a number of years ago: At the range. Instructors told us we were to put 6 rounds in our gun - target was 7 yards away - basically a paper plate size target.

Fire all 6 rounds, as fast you can, WITH accuracy. You have to hit the target with all 6 rounds.

I volunteered to go first, out of the group of 10.

(I used a semi auto 9 mm) 1 2 3 4 5 6.

Instructor came up to me and said "Arch, you need to slow down." "Why? You said to shoot as fast as we can, accurately. I did, and I hit the target every time."

He walked out to check the target.

Walked back and said "Okay. That was good."

However, there was no stress involved.

As to the question.........just a couple of weeks ago I was asked how a trigger safety works. And I couldn't really explain it, especially since I don't own a gun that has one.

And I'm no expert on guns.

Arch I'm thinking of getting my CCW. Any recommendations on pistols. I've only owned 1 semi it was a 22 Beretta. But I've had alot of revolers. From the Smith 19 in the 357 to the Ruger Blackhawk in a 44. And alot of 22's for trapping and plinking. The problem with the 19 was my wife loved shooting it so if went to the range I never got to shoot it. I had to use the 44.

One time we were out at the range and she started eyeing the. 44. I told her sorry dear not for you I'm not going to let you step out of your ability.

Oh, man.......too many variables for me to recommend anything.

When I took the class I had my Beretta 92 FS. Not a good "concealed" carry gun.

After getting my license, I went to a gun store with a specific model in mind. Another Beretta. In holding it.....man, I just didn't like it. Just didn't fit my hands "comfortably" I guess.

Looked at some others, and I settled on a S+W M&P 9c. Felt good. Small enough to carry (unlike the 92FS), good capacity, and did I say small enough to carry? Summer time, in cargo shorts with a pocket holster. Cold weather, with an inside the waistband holster. I've never been "printed".

My son bought a S&W Shield. Almost identical gun. The 9c IS just a bit bigger, but everything else is almost identical. Except capacity.

But, I would tell you this: Go to a gun store that has a variety of guns - check them out. Read up on them. Ask advice. And hold the gun. Handle the gun. Look at the size of the gun.

There are many manufacturers of good quality concealable guns. And, go with a known name. (son asked me, before he got his Shield, about a gun I won't name. I did some research. Didn't take long for me to tell him "I wouldn't buy that gun for 1/4th of what they want")

The SW MP 9c "fit" me.

Jfan carries something different - it works for him.

And for the board............I don't carry very often, so it's not like I'm some macho dude who's out to save the world.

Wheel gun man?

Try out the 38 special +P Ruger LCR. Weighs next to nothing. Very easy for carry. With the Laser, I can easily shoot from the hip, bullet goes to the dot.

I've fired the ruger LCR, and the LCP. Didn't care for either of them. Trigger pull was........not to my liking I guess. Perhaps it's adjustable. I just didn't care for either of them

Personal preference.

Like you said earlier, you gotta go hold em and try em out to see if they fit you and your needs. Like Nordawg, I have always been a wheel gunner so that is where I am most comfortable.

Hey Arch, I wanted to thank you for the advice above. I went to my local store, held them (Shield & the 9C), measured them, shot them and the guys even let me holster them and walk around the store.

The 9C has been with me since.

The action is still a bit stiff, racking and clearing. However, the Shield was a bit stiff as well. Maybe I'm just weak.

I stopped in at fin fur feather and held the mp9. It did feel good. And it was reasonable price. Just needed some advice. Thank you.

Nah, you aren't weak. Brand new guns are just that: Brand new.

There's a reason there is a break in period.

My son, at the range, with the guy watching, had trouble cycling the action. In my head I was thinking "come on son, just like I showed you". (his stress level was up, trust me).

The range instructor finally asked me "is that a brand new gun?" I said yeah.

He then stopped my son and gave him some pointers, and flat out told him "brand new guns are tight. You'll be fine once you get some rounds through it."

No different, really, than when I bought my SW 22 A-1.

Brought it home, loaded it with SW ammo. I had feeding problems instantly. I switched to Remington .22 rounds. Same thing. I was upset. Wanted to return it.

Did some research however, and found that the SW 22 A1 is a picky gun as far as ammo is concerned. Recommended rounds were Federal, or some brand I hadn't heard of.

Went out and bought some Federal .22 rounds - didn't have a problem. At all. The gun just doesn't like some ammo.

After perhaps 1000 or more rounds through it, not one single misfeed.

I think the trend of civilians shooting assailants in fights with police might get out of hand. I'm happy civilians are helping the officers under attack, yet don't think there is much of a line between this and vigilantism.

I'm not clear on what you're talking about. Or if you meant to reply to who you replied to.

The "trend of civilians shooting assailants in fights with police.........what?

How about the trend of armed citizens being responsible enough to take care of themselves when faced with an intruder?

I know it's been said on here ".....when a cop is only 5 minutes away". I wish a cop were only 5 minutes away from my house.

As it is, we right now have 2, perhaps 4 (since it's St. Patricks day) deputies on patrol. They are to cover some 422 sq. miles.

The last, and only time, I called 911 because of some guy beating on our front door, it took the deputy almost 20 minutes to get here.

What "trend" are you talking about?

I was jc arch. Sorry didn't mean to confuse you.

I've seen two videos today and a story on CNN about these civilian shootings of bad guys attacking cops being shot by legally carrying civilians.

Good samaritans or vigilantes? I think that depends on the scenario. This time the guy is fighting a cop, but when that is okay the same thing could start happening when no cop is involved. Then it might not be so okay.

I'm actually kind of surprised you don't recognize the circumstances and equate using deadly force in a deadly force situation with vigilantism.

If it wasn't a cop getting his head bashed in, but another citizen... the good samaritan would still have been justified in doing what he was doing. The fact a cop was the victim didn't justify the use of deadly force, it was the nature of the assault that did.

I'm saying it's a slippery slope. Take this example, you have three people in that situation and no other witnesses, so how do you know it was legit and not a cold blooded murder? If it's ok to be judge, jury and executioner, what's stopping this kind of defense?

Glocks have no true safety other then the one between your ears.

I concurr on the M&P shield in 9mm. Wife has one with the safety. That thing flat out shoots.

I also like my LCP in 380 for certain deep concealment situations. I carry it in my pants/shorts pocket and you would be hard pressed to know it is there. Any printing is cell phone like. The DOA trigger is very heavy long and drawn out and serves as a "safety ". Lots of peeps don't like the LCP for that reason, but it is okay. It ain't my EDC (every day carry)but fits a needed niche.

The 92fs is a big OWB (outside waistband). I carry it a lot, in the fall, winter and early spring as I need clothes to conceal it. Kinda of funny. I primarily buy clothes now with gun use being the primary deciding factor.

YouTube concealed carry guns. Lots of good advice and suggestions to begin your research. Don't go of what I say even if at the end of the journey you pick a M&P shield. Picking you gun is personal. Take your time and don't rush. You will probably hate whatever gun you pick within 6 months if you shoot a lot. That's normal. It is part of the addiction that leads you to to buying 3 more guns in the next 18 months. See Colion Noirs PSA video on why you should not get into guns.

Visit a gun store. Skip gun shows as they can be intimidating. Fondle as many options as you can. If you can find a shop that lets you test fire some,buy all means do so. Take a buddy that is familiar with guns to help you work the actions and dry fire triggers and feel resets if you are unfamiliar with these. There is a slight etiquette to how to do this in a shop and being a possible newbie could make for a less then optimal experience. Be sure buddy knows his roll as assistant and not direct you to what he wants. Also walk out of a store if the guy behind the counter only pushes you to one brand of gun (likely a glock, which is still a good gun). He ain't redpecting you as an educated buyer who has hopefully done their research.

Is this you first go round with pistols? If so, skip out on the 380/9mm/40SW/45acp/10mm. Buy a pistol in 22lr and learn to shoot. Big bore guns are easy to shoot with experience. But they can breed bad habits that can be almost impossible to fix with out a professional trainer. And don't worry about 22lr not being a sel defense caliber. You will get tgat later, but you will still shoot your 22. It is cheap to shoot and way too much fun.

Enjoy!!!

And that's usually an empty space.

If you have nothing to add to a topic you obviously are against why even come into this thread?

Typical left wing disparaging comment. And you wonder why we all just can't get along.

Typical but true. Enjoy your gun porn.

The only thing typical is the inability of a member left of center to respond to a reasonable and rationale question with anything but a simple "whatever" type of response for the 200 millionth time.

I firmly believe in safeties (not the trigger type). Google up "Glock leg" to see why. Here are a couple other reasons.

Again, the block on glock triggers is a drop safety. It keeps the gun from discharging if dropped or thrown against a wall. It is not designed as a trigger safety his the "glock leg"

Um, evidence?

Look at that POS Michael Brown and the hundreds of 'witnesses' who said he was executed. Ofc. Wilson had injuries consistent with being feloniously assaulted. Ballistics and forensics corroborated his statements of how and where he shot Brown.

In the vast majority of cases there is evidence that either supports or contradicts the statements of the people involved.

TTT,


Have you looked in to the Springfield XD series? I haven't shot one, but from what I know they do not have a thumb safety, but instead there is a safety along the backstrap (rear of the grip).

My department was going to switch to these instead of the M&P 45's but they found that women and other officers with small hands had a difficult time engaging that safety.

Might be something to check out?

The XD series have grip safeties just like on a 1911.

Funny that you mention not going to the 45 in part because of small framed women. I get that. I also get that it is an unspoken reason why the fbi is all in love with the 9mm. The 9mm ain't any better then the 45. It is just more femsle friendly but in our PC world God forbid that's pointed out.

Wow! That was something. No thanks, I will stick with my revolvers.

My wheel gun has a drop safety, leave the chamber empty over the hammer.

No Glock leg or Ruger Rump for me thanks!

And I don't put a gun down the front of my pants cause that thing has a mind of its own and I don't trust it with no gun!