DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Vickers shows visions of Mack --clevelandbrowns.com

It was interesting -- maybe even fitting or symbolic -- to watch second-year Browns fullback Lawrence Vickers enter the door into the team's training headquarters moments after Kevin Mack had done so.

For just as he was that day following one of the club's practices during its three-day, full-squad minicamp last week, Vickers is following in Mack's footsteps in other ways.

Mack, who just recently rejoined the team as assistant director of player development, was the last multi-talented fullback the Browns had during a nine-year career from 1985 through '93.

Mack is most known for the fact that as a rookie in 1985, he teamed with Earnest Byner to become just the third pair of running backs from the same club to both go over the 1,000-yard rushing mark in the same season. He had 1,104 yards and Byner 1,002, helping lead the way as the Browns, who were just 5-11 the year before, won the AFC Central crown for the first time in five seasons.

But Mack wasn't just a flash in the pan. Though he never exceeded 1,000 yards in a season again, he still ranks No. 5 on the Browns career rushing list with 5,123 yards, a notable accomplishment on a team that boasts no fewer than four Pro Football Hall of Fame running backs. He is also fourth in rushing touchdowns with 46.

He was a good pass receiver as well, twice catching at least 40 passes in a season and finishing with 197 receptions overall.

In addition, Mack served as a good lead blocker for Byner and some of the smaller backs who came later, such as Eric Metcalf.

But once Mack left, the Browns have never had a fullback quite like him. Not long after his retirement -- and actually, before he even retired -- the position somehow morphed throughout the NFL into one where players bulked up to 250 to 260 pounds and served exclusively as blockers.

Carrying the ball became a once-in-a-season experience, if that. And catching the ball out of the backfield? That was a pipedream. You don't throw passes to quasi-linemen unless you want them to only quasi-catch it.

Eventually, though, things come full-circle in all realms, including football, and they've done so with the Browns at fullback. Beginning in 2005 with the arrival of Romeo Crennel as head coach, and being ratcheted up several notches this year when Rob Chudzinski came in as offensive coordinator, the Browns have turned back the clock to the Mack days -- or at least as close as they may ever be again.

The team's fullbacks are lighter, they're asked to carry the ball from time to time and they're even split out as receivers and become viable options in the passing game. And yes, they're also asked to block.

Those requirements suit Vickers just fine. Listed at 233 pounds, he plans to play at between 240 and 244 this year, thus making him light enough to move well either as a ball carrier or a receiver, and still big enough to clear out linebackers as a lead blocker for newcomer Jamal Lewis.

"Quick feet. That's what my position coach (running backs coach Anthony Lynn) keeps emphasizing to me," Vickers said. "He says, 'If you don't have quick feet, you can't be on the football field.' "

During the minicamp, Vickers was split left and right. He was in the slot. All to take advantage of those quick feet by getting a matchup with a slower linebacker.

This isn't the type of fullback your older brother watched while growing up. This is, instead, the type of fullback your dad remembers.

Actually, Vickers is one of the more interesting pieces of this year's offense. Because of his versatility, the Browns would like to put him into a variety of roles. As much as he's able to absorb will determine, in many ways, just how diversified this offense can be, since the fullback on most teams is a blocker and little more.

Vickers laughed about all that when it was brought up to him. For one thing, he likes his role. After all, what back doesn't like touching the ball?

"I knew when I came here that Id have to take a back seat (to veteran starter Terrelle Smith)," Vickers said. "I'd have to come in and learn from him.

"Terrelle was a great guy. He helped me with a lot of things. I listened to whaty he had to say, and I concentrated on my role on special teams."

But Smith, a crunching lead blocker who had limited skills as a ball carrier and pass receiver, was not brought back in the offseason. That was a lead-blocking fullback type of move, clearing the way completely for Vickers to make a splash.

Only if he jumps into the water feet-first, though.

"This is a competition," he said. "I'm not saying at all that it's my job. If I get it, great. It's what I want. I'm going after it. But right now, I'm just trying to learn the offense."

"Kevin and I have talked some," Vickers said. "He told me to take what I do and make it an advantage in the game."

The Browns are trying to do just that with the expanded role they've given Vickers. Thinking that hr could become another Mack is not fair to either player, but projecting that he could provide this offense with a big, unexpected boost is not out of the realm of possibility at all.

And if it helps the Browns, to have a reversal of fortunes, just as what happened with the 1985 team, then Vickers' contributions will count for even more.

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I'm really curious what kind of Role Vickers will play this year. Actually, I'm just curious to see how proficient he is with the ball. I've heard he's versatile, but until I see it I'm skeptical.

i remember the Falcons game seeing Droughns lining up as a WR.. i hated it.. lol.. i'm probably going to hate Vickers doing it as well.. lol.. He can outspeed a slow LB... well so can Cribbs.. so can Wilson.. so can Carter..

As long as it's not QB, then I'd like to see what they've got set up for him.

I just hope thier aren't any FB option passes or runs up the middle on third and long.

Its about creating mismatches. You have your run defense in and set up to stop lewis then the FB goes out wide in the slot guess what things are now screwed up for the defense. Lewis still has the option of running without the FB but now you have an additional receiving option to worry about. Remember all it takes is for one defender to be out of position for a big play to happen. Also u run that zone stretch he can get out there and take out the safety allowing the big run to take place.

Yes, sir...proper evaluation of the multi talented fullback in today's game.

good article! I don't have much to say about vickers until he gets some more touches this season.


side note...

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Thinking that hr could become another

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this is what text messaging has done to society... soon every single word will be abbreviated.

I think Vickers would be a great running back/full back player.. He has it, and dont be surprised if he even might end up as a RB in the future.. I hope this idea pans out, because it would be nice to have that option..

We get this o-line shored up and get Quinn programed properly, we will have some true, in your face weapons.. I like the direction this team is moving, and I think it's going to happen faster then most can think possible, WATCH..

BUT, this all rides on the QB, the line can no longer be a real arguement, because we have made very good moves, and Bent might be back, LOL, I'm loving it.. Even if Bent dont get back, Hank can hold it down, reguardless..

It's starting to feel like X-Mas around here,

If we bring a 3rd WR into the game like Cribbs....don't you think the Defense is going to put in a nickle back???? So it wouldn't be Cribbs against a LB, but Cribbs vs a Nickle DB....

I know that RAC was High on Vickers last season. He made some comments (none of which I remember at the moment, I just remember he made some) that were pretty positive. Maybe this year they can find a way to use him more effectively than last year because I just didn't see what they were all excited about with this kid.. This is one of those times where I want to be wrong.

Yeah, I can see that...

Much like you Damon,I just "don't see it". I'm not saying it "isn't there",but if it is,it was well hidden.

I mean the comparison to Mack. I didn't see near the speed nor agility that Mack had in Vickers. That's not to say he won't be a nice,bruising style 3rd down and short yardage RB. Nor is it saying he doesn't have "good hands" in the recieving department. He may very well have that capacity.

Steve Heiden has good hands too,but he's no KW2.


So I will remain optimistic about his ability to contribute a great deal to our O. But The Mack comparison? I have major reservations about the comparison of the two for a number of reasons.

JMHO

I don't know about Vickers looking like Mack.... There was a time last year he looked something like Mike Phipps...

It's feel good sugarcoated b/s articles like these that keep me away from that site.

I don't know. It's GREAT for the schedule,upcoming events,roster and player information etc.....

But it's media portion? For some reason unbeknownst to me,it just wreaks of "homerism"!

I haven't a clue as what the kid can do .. He wasn't on the field long enough last season to get a handle on his ability .. Well a couple of infamous plays .. We had that ( as EO called it ) The Prevent offense last season !

only thing that I can say positive about him is that he had a FIRE college highlight reel... it was amazing..

Mourg. & I were both excited about him as a late round draft choice . Thought he just " Might " have the potential to Carry the pig skin in the Pro's ..

Homerism is one thing, being absurd is another story. I get how they are drawing comparisons but is that the Mack we all remember? The Mack I remember was as one of the most feared backs with the ball. It wasn't because of his ability to break the long run on any play or his elusiveness.

It was because anytime he had the ball he was going to hit you if you tried to tackle him. Trying to run him out of bounds didn't work. He would just turn his shoulders and hit you. He seeked out linebackers to destroy them and did destroy them often. He had a complete lack of regard for his body, which gave us fans many fond memories.

Vickers could become the best fullback ever but will never compare in my mind to Mack.

Who was that Steeler he knocked out at the goalline that one time? Awesome

I love versatile fullbacks. I know it's no NFL comparison (so don't jump all over me), but I use my fullback in Madden all the time as a receiver or 2nd back. The defense rarely covers him. And if they do start to cover him? Then they aren't covering someone else, or at least not double covering them, or not playing the run right. It can really open up the O.

Whether we have a fullback or not, i just want a identity for this offense. Somthing needs to click on this offense becuase last year we were lucky to get a first down as a routine thing.

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This isn't Madden where you can watch what play set the offense picks, and then select your defensive play...

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Wow!

Great article there! Sure, I'd love to Vickers step into some kind of role. He looks like he could be a bruiser but also has some decent speed. Now with those two combinations, that is what make a great RB.

The only hint from him I saw last year was that screen pass to the left side of the field and he ran for about 20 yards. Just by seeing that I like his running style, but why did he step out at the end instead of leveling the guy?

Maybe everyone was afraid of getting injured or something?

Vickers is indeed a special player, but I will make further judgements when I actually see him run in the trenches.

Why do people say he can't block? I don't remember him in any game as the blocker. From what I saw of him in camp last year, he is a pretty big guy, he should be a decent blocker.

The thing I think this article is trying to say, is not since Mack have we had a FB that is a ball carrier. I don't think they are trying to say that Vickers is going to be as good as Mack, or even the same style runner. I believe they are just saying he can run the ball and catch, unlike Smith, who was just a blocking back.

Vickers was a good short yardage runner in college, and I thouhgt that was what they would use him for last year. Seems Carthon didn't see the same thing.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis and Vickers both in the backfield, and both being a threat to run the ball. That, while not being Mack and Byner, is the same concept. Throwing Harrison in the mix, could cause even more problems.

In the recent past our offense was so predictable the it was pathetic. Smith comes in the game, immediately the defense knows run. With Vickers, that should change. He has the ability to run the ball, and I believe that Chud will use it.