DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Repeal and Replace Obama Care

Yes, very interesting. I wonder if Trump will someday take on ObamaCare again by aligning himself with the Moderate Republicans and The Moderate Democrats to get the numbers needed to pass a healthcare plan?

Then I wonder if Moderate Democrats can survive Pelosi and Schumer for daring to work with Trump and Republicans.

Good stuff.

I too like to dream.

The dems are willing to work with Trump to make a healthcare bill that tweaks and improves the ACA, or a move that will eventually lead to single payer.

They will not, however, endorse a bill that repeals and replaces the ACA with such a crap ass plan as the one your leadership tried to push off on the house Friday afternoon.

bro, that bill proposed removing prescription drugs from insurance plans.

seriously? that's like half the reason people buy insurance in the first place. that makes absolutely no sense.

why remove pregnancy, maternity, and newborn care from insurance? why remove rehab and lab services?

that bill was trash. straight up trash. so don't expect the Dems to support that crap.

and i'm glad there were some republicans who wouldn't support that trash, either.

Not necessarily a dream when you consider that Trump ran and was elected as an outsider, at odds with the Republican and Democrat Establishment.

He has played it pretty straight down the line with Republicans so far but they have left him high and dry with this. Will his loyalties adjust or change?

Unknown.

Most people never got the message that the Plan was in 3 parts.

Part one only repealed and began the replacement.
Part two and three brought in renegotiated (by Trump) Prescription costs and most of the other details.

Part one was supposed to go through with only Republican votes and zero Democrats.

Part two and three would need both Republicans and Democrats.
Once they repealed and replaced, the people would demand part 2 and 3 get passed as they contained the meat and gravy.

This would put pressure on the Democrats to get involved.

That is my understanding of the show.

To have a plan put out, and then put down within a matter of what was it, a week or two is pretty poor salesmanship.

Whatever the case, it wasn't what they campaigned on and promised for the last 7 years. No one said anything about how it would increase competition across state lines and there fore make plans cheaper like Trump said he would do.

They could've done so many things to better explain this (not like it would've made the plan any better) but they're not going to get some 'we won so we get a free pass' thing like the dems give their reps.

We were promised certain things, so we voted accordingly.

Now deliver on your promises.

sorry but that part 2 and 3 nonsense sounded exactly that: nonsense.

even republicans weren't buying that crap.

I have an inherent distrust for any plan whose steps include planning.

Here's another thing, when do democrats give a rats rear end what republicans get involved with whatever they're doing?

They don't. They go ahead and do whatever it is they want, thump their chests, stick their fingers in your faces and say DEAL WITH IT!

So why do republicans want to put 'pressure' on democrats to do anything?

How about they fell OUR PRESSURE to do what they promised they would do regardless of what their colleagues say?

Because at some point we have to get back to having some sort of bipartisan support for a bill.

Everybody thumps their chest. It would be nice if politicians start thumping their chest because they actually passed something that both parties could get behind.

Like weed

hmmm

Step one only needed 215 votes in the House and 51 in the Senate, there are enough (237) Republicans in the House and 52 in the Senate to win.

Steps 2 and 3 needed 60 votes in the Senate, for that we need Democrats.

No democrat is voting for this. They need to get something together that they don't need democrats (if that's possible with all the convoluted rules and laws about making laws that are in place).

Bernie is about to introduce a medicare for all bill. How does everyone feel about that?

Bernie will get laughed out of washington.

You are not listening. We need 60 votes in the Senate to prevent a filibuster and go to a vote. There are only 52-54 Republicans.

WE NEED DEMOCRATS or the Bill dies.

The big issue with this 40 is that the dems have to trust that the other parts actually come later. It's like the GOP saying give us our mile and later when the time is right we'll talk about your inch. GMAB

Nuclear option, change the rules, elections have consequences.

I'm tired of Washington continuing to create situations where they have so much damn influence over our lives.

This is backwards of what the founders intended.

Sanders says he will introduce 'Medicare for all' bill

BY REBECCA SAVRANSKY - 03/26/17 08:30 AM EDT

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) is planning to introduce a single-payer healthcare bill in Congress.

The Vermont senator said during a town hall Saturday he plans to introduce a "Medicare for all" bill "within a couple of weeks," Vermont Public Radio reported.

“It is a commonsense proposal, and I think once the American people understand it, we can go forward with it,” Sanders said after the town hall meeting.

During the town hall, Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) said he would introduce the same bill in the House.

“Well, you know, it’s a goal. In this Congress, we won’t pass it,” Welch said after the town hall. “But I think we have to do keep the goal out there, because we need in this country, like any industrialized country, a healthcare system that’s affordable, accessible and universal.”
Welch said he will "reach out to [his] Republican colleagues with specific proposals about some of the things we can do to fix some of the issues in the Affordable Care Act."

The comments come after Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) on Friday pulled the American Health Care Act, the GOP's healthcare proposal, amid dwindling support among Republicans.

The move marked the first legislative defeat for President Trump and followed seven years of rhetoric from Republicans who campaigned on a pledge to repeal and replace ObamaCare.

The president blamed Democrats for not backing the bill. He signaled he would move on to other legislative priorities, such as tax reform.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/325814-sanders-says-he-will-introduce-medicare-for-all-bill

So here comes Bernie! He's going to offer up the chance for Republicans to do the right thing and for Trump to keep his promise. But they will scoff at it, of course.

The sad part is that the majority of Americans are behind a medicare for all plan of one kind or the other. It's the insurance companies, big pharma and their lobbyist that oppose it.

Bernie's popularity is skyrocketing. The next presidential election, he will have no issue with name recognition or popularity... if he can just get past the crooked DNC.

j/c

I understand the sentiment to just let the ACA continue on and let it implode. Politically it would be smart because the Dems completely own it and it would just continue to illustrate how craptastic they are. Showing the ACA's failure would also undermine their credibility on any other proposals. We've already seen this play out as the R's have gained massive holdings in all levels of gov't nationwide over the last several years, primarily because of how bad the ACA has been.

Where it backfires is that the majority of people already recognize it's crap and already blame the Dems (see above comment about election results) . The R's will get themselves in trouble if they just stand there because they've been tasked with getting us to a better place.

Now, some of you are making the mistake of thinking that just because we have a R President and R Congress, that the Party is united. It is not. They are not in lock step as Hillary and the Dems would have been.

And while some of you are predicting a Dem comeback if Trump isn't successful, IMO you haven't learned the lessons of how we got here in the first place. Yes, the R's will pay big, but as Clem has pointed out, this is about an uprising against the ruling class. Dems may make some gains, but most R's will be replaced by other R's, likely more Tea Party type candidates.

I've seen repeated comments about simply tweaking the ACA... what I haven't seen is what parts of it ought to be tweaked? I'd seriously be interested to know what these fixes are. Personally I don't believe it's simple tweaks that are necessary as all the fundamentals that the ACA is based upon are fatally flawed.

As for this AHCA... I didn't get the chance to dig in to it, but overall it didn't have favorability from what I heard. My impression coming from the likes of Paul Ryan was that this was more Establishment Rep's trying to solidify their jobs by making it look like they were reforming a system but in reality maintaining the status quo.

Paul Ryan worries me and the more I see of him, the more I don't like. I'd almost go as far as to say dangerous. He's one of those charismatic, good liking, likable people... but since he's been put in a position to make a difference.. he's done nothing of substance, certainly not what I think most people thought he would do.

Exactly what was said about Trump.

You have stated, rightfully so, that the Rs are in charge and need to own what happens.. but as far as healthcare, the ball has been lobbed back to the Ds.. The Republican plan has been scrapped and in doing so, the mantra from the Ds was, "Sure the ACA needs work, it needs to be improved, but this doesn't do it."

Well, as far as I see it, now is the time that the Ds should tell us what that plan looks like to improve the existing ACA since they are so steadfast opposed to getting rid of it but were willing to admit that it has some serious issues.

They won the point, their serve....

Bernie is introducing a medicare for all bill. That's what it should look like, period. The Rs can figure out how to make it look republican...

The Republicans will not allow it to add to the Deficit.

Bye Bye Bernie Socialism!

The problem is, the whole "it just needs tweaked" is and has been nothing more than a talking point from the very beginning.

If all it needs is tweaked, why haven't they been made? An obstructionist congress is nothing but an excuse. At any point had the Dems said "This is what is wrong, and this is the fix" they would have had the political muscle to strong arm the Reps into passing it through.

The problem with that is first the Dems would have to admit that the ACA doesn't work, which they can't bring themselves to do. Anytime you press them on things like losing your doctor, massive premium increases, reduced coverage, their only reply is "But look at all the people who have coverage now!".

Not to mention that Humana, the original insurance company to work with ObamaCare has announced they too are pulling out.


Humana to leave ObamaCare exchanges next year

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/14/humana-to-leave-obamacare-exchanges-next-year.html

How is it an excuse?

It's a fact. Look what just happened. Your leadership couldn't even get out of their own way. They literally just obstructed themselves, yet when it comes to the Dems, you're saying it's an excuse?

Please.

Anyway, yea D.C., ball is back in the Dems court. So they need to come up with solutions, or a better bill. Bernie is dropping one soon like OCD said, but it's gonna need to have dem support before they can start trying to negotiate with the republicans.

The problem becomes how any politicians, R or D, go about that. One thing people aren't taking into consideration all that much is how little public support this bill got from much of anybody. Only the die hard trump supporters supported it, which quite honestly is a minority.

It had something between 70-85 percent disapproval from the public, depending on what sources you want to use, which means that if this bill got passed, it would've gone against what the American people wanted.

So yea it's on the Dems to come up with some sort of plan. Especially since it seems like the president is affectively shutting the door on this and moving on. That will be a problem because we have to acknowledge that maybe. - and this is a legit concern- that trump wants the entire system to explode just based on pure pettiness because he took an L on this.

But I have SOME faith that at least in the house, some republicans might get on board because they have a ton of people who they represent who NEED these coverages.

I'm not blaming the Dems for this bill not passing. I know it wasn't because of them.

I am blaming the Dems for the crap that is the ACA... which has impacted more people negatively than it has actually helped.

And yes, "tweaking" is nothing more than a talking point and IS an excuse for how bad the law is.

Name 1 problem and name 1 tweak that will solve it.

Just 1 aspect of it. I know there isn't one thing that will "fix" it all in one go, so I won't be unreasonable and ask. But name one part of it that doesn't work and name the tweak.

Why do you think it is called ObamaCare?

The Democrats own it!

There are definitely policies, or "tweaks" one could make.

The problem is that it won't happen without people whining about it and talking about rights and freedoms.

price caps for one. I know people on this board not named Eve constantly whine about the idea, but taking the massive profits out of prescription drugs can help bring the cost down, or at least keep it from rising.

The common crap argument from conservatives is that price control on prescription drugs would stall innovation and investment.

Which is highly debatable, as other countries around the world don't seem to have that problem.

Why? Because healthcare isn't considered a for profit industry like it is here in the states. And that's the problem. You and other views healthcare as something that needs to be privatized. I don't. And a lot of Americans, and people around the world don't.

which is one of many reasons why that bill is trash.

There are many things that can be privatized, or for profit. Healthcare shouldn't be one of them.

And that's a fundamental ideological difference that splits this country. Just like it does this board. So until healthcare is viewed in a different light, then whatever the Dems proposed will never be good enough for republicans and their conservative voters, and vise versa.

Medicare for all would probably cut the deficit. Taxes would go up, but health care would be cheaper per capita. Savings that would translate to dollars to lower the deficit.

And the deficit is only an excuse for the GOP. They are not worried about wars running up the deficit, or military spending, or tax breaks for the donor class... So any excuse you have claiming you are worried about the deficit is null before you submit it. DOA, like a Trump legislation.

And there you have it Bernie lovers!

Bye Bye Bernie!

Look, the ACA is what, 6 or 7 years old now? People have been pointing out problems with it all along but all the President and congressional democrats who passed it did was talk about it as unicorns and rainbows... then, and only then, when it was facing the threat of repeal, they all got on the "Yea, it's not perfect, it needs tweaking" bandwagon..

So they had 2 years of preparation to make it right, then 6 or 7 more years to watch it unfold and admit it wasn't perfect and begin proposing solutions while they controlled the Whitehouse. To the best of my knowledge, all they did was write waivers and exemptions so their favorites, like the unions, were exempt from it rather than actually fixing the problems.

So I agree with your previous statement.. it is now time to work together and try to make it better, if it's not going away and being replaced by something comparable or better.

It still got passed though.

Your leadership can't even get that far. They couldn't even vote on it, it had to get pulled.

And yea, maybe if the republicans spent that last 7 years trying to improve upon it instead of repealing it, we'd be in better shape.

You and others keep forgetting that. You had the majority after the mid terms, and instead of trying to fix it with the help of the Dems, you wasted time trying to repeal it with no replacement.

And surprise surprise, you guys have a legit shot to pull it off, and yet all they did was wet the bed.

The Dems at least showed they can unite and put a bill through. Can the republicans do the same? Will they fail again? Will trump get Impeached?

Find out on the next episode of dragon ball z!!

I don't know why everyone is complaining.

You didn't want ObamaCare Light so you ended up with full flavored ObamaCare!

What gives?

To be fair, there were multiple outfits pointing out the problems with it but we didn't have a baseline so the democrats just blamed those on republican smear campaigns, then a lot of them came true.

Then there was the fact that much of what Obama said was going to happen, didn't. I won't say he lied, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he actually thought it wouldn't increase the deficit and that insurers would get on board with making a lot less money, etc.. some of us said those things weren't going to happen but the democrats were all in on what Obama was telling them.. so yea, it got passed, without a lot of people in congress reading it.


That is very true. The whole time they were talking about and fighting to repeal it, I assumed they had another plan, I was wrong.

Well let's hope for the best bro.

I don't see the majority in the house going for anything Bernie proposes. Especially if it increases taxes.

There was a republican congressmen on meet the press on Sunday who said with another colleague of his that it seems like there is now a national healthcare policy, and maybe they should just roll with that, fix what's needs to be fixed and move on.

No easy answers.

Apparently Trump has reached out to the Democrats to help fix the Healthcare mess.

I have seen Democrats throughout the day on television, talking about "What they feel needs to be done".

Interesting. Seems Trump is no longer going to trust my Conservative Republicans to have his back.

Not sure if it's true or not, but I've heard very little to refute it, but from what I understand the U.S. is the leader in innovation and research worldwide, so if I'm other countries I can sit back and wait for the patent to expire.

The reason as I understand it for the concern about stalling innovation and investment is that people aren't very likely to invest if they aren't likely to recoup and make money off of that investment. (I watch a lot of Shark Tank!!) Now I don't know what the average cost is to take a drug or medical procedure through the FDA approval process is, but I'm sure it ain't cheap. On top of that, you have to figure there are a number of drugs attempted but never make it market.

So if I invest in Glaxo-Smith, they are going to make sure that when they do hit on a successful drug, they are going to get as much $$ as they can because that success has to also cover the drugs that they lost money on.

But that's how I understand it. could be wrong.

Oh, and thank you for your price cap tweak. I'm not a fan, but you did do much more than pretty much any of the Dems have done in the last 6 t 7 years.

The problem I see with price caps is that without an actual market, it's difficult to assess what the price should be. Something similar is that after the ACA came in to effect, the gov't reduced the re-imbursement rate for Medicaid (and medicare?? or both?) In any event, the result was Doctors started limiting the number of Medicaid patients they saw as they were losing money on them. Some stopped taking them all together.

So what happens when the gov't puts a cap on a service or drug and the people that would normally provide those decline to participate because it isn't cost effective for them? Force them to?

That's what a POTUS should do before a bill is introduced not after it fails miserably. Not a single democrat was invited to committee the TrumpCare bill. Not 1