DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum JG - Chapter 8

"They have the means to overpay for an emerging quarterback star like New England’s Jimmy Garoppolo without mortgaging their future, yet the timing may be off by one year. Patriots coach Bill Belichick didn’t give them the time of day before departing the Arizona Biltmore two days before everyone else to scout inside linebackers."

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/_/id/3154/clock-is-ticking-on-browns-quarterback-search

Yes I'm sure any and all trade talks will happen directly in front of the media.

It's a great story though.

"Belichick stiffs Browns"

I'm reading this and laughing, in part because (if I recall correctly) you live down the street from one of the best donut shops I've ever known.

Oh my Lord, you better retract that or your going to release the criteria demon in Vers. lol

Classy.

Oh my ... at least we know who watches film to make their judgements and who likes to run around

Here is a motor for that trolling so it actually gets somewhere someday other than ...

I agree, I don't get that....oh, wait, I don't want to get scolded...this is to Vers.

I don't have a problem with the 12th pick for JG. I'd rather do that than go with any of the college QBs this year. I don't think it is even close.

It's all the stuff you hear that Bill wants in addition, like both of our 1st rounders.

If it was simply our 12th for JG, do it now. Anything else, I am not all that keen on the idea. If he keeps up with wanting Garrett, he can pound salt, and I will now add suck a dill pickle at the same time.

Nice. LOL

Don't you just love posters who take the time to "like" a post that is nothing but a pure insult? Then, those same people run around here questioning the character of others.

Revealing!

Peen, I believe in every negotiation you start with a price well above what you are willing to accept. Otherwise, there would be no negotiations. I believe what BB says he wants is a lot more than what he's willing to accept. Now it's just a question of where the middle really is.

How about 12, our 2nd 2nd, 2nd next year and everything above after the 3rd round this year?

I don't even know what that means.

IF we trade for Jimmy I think we should make it conditional on whether or not Jimmy signs and extension with us. If not I could see this as the Browns providing his dress rehearsal/audition to go elsewhere. I realize we can franchise him or whatever but if we are giving them at least our #12 this year I want some assurance he will be here for more than a rental year.

I think I would inform the Patriots if the trade is not done at least 2 weeks before the draft and in that 2 weeks we don't come to a contract agreement, the trade is off.

IF NE does not agree, too bad, They can have him for this year and see how to keep him after that.

I personally don't think that is necessary but I understand people wanting assurance. In fact, if we trade for him, I hope it's not including a contract extension. I think it's too risky to give up picks AND money for a guy that's only played 6 quarters. Now, if a contract is signed and it's not anywhere near the Brock Osweiler numbers, I guess I could live with it, but I probably wouldn't like that we extended him immediately.

The angle benefiting the Browns IF we traded for JG and IF he played extremely well, we'll have the franchise tag and the cap space to use it. Plus if JG played well enough to deserve a tag, the Browns are probably in a pretty good spot record-wise with an upward trajectory that he'd probably re-sign based on the condition of the team. If he played mediocre or poorly, you move on and most likely the team is in a position to draft another QB or still has a plethora of assets move up for one, possibly.

I'm all about trading for Jimmy. But that's it...we will have to give up significant assets to get him. Let him play in his contract year to earn the franchise tag or sign him long-term while under it or the following year. That would be my approach.

Note: I think you have to be aware that a contract could be looming. That certainly has to play a part in trading for him, or why else would you? I just don't think it needs to happen immediately. Let's see him some more and you could control him for, at most, the next three years.....this year and two franchise tags.

Maybe, maybe not.

As I said, I don't mind if we trade for the guy, it just can't inclue out 1st pick. The more I look at other prospects, I don't really want to get rid of the 12th pick either. Maybe we need to trade down a little before we give up that much.

Why?

What makes you think that?

putting a gun to my head, I think the only QB we'll draft is Webb

I get what you are saying, but if I am the Browns giving away serious draft pick assets to get this guy, I am hesitant to risk it on only 3 years.

You mention if he does better our the Browns probably will too. Hopefully that is the case, however how do we know his lifelong goal is not to play for his hometown Bears? If the Bears are a QB away from big things in 3 years he could easily decide to go there.

Again, if I am confident enough to trade a lot for him, I want to make sure he is with us long enough to make a difference. Not saying you are wrong, I just have a different feel for the situation.

Cleveland Browns: 3 myths surrounding a Jimmy Garoppolo trade

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2017/04/02/cleveland-browns-myths-garoppolo/

No matter what you think of the New England Patriots and quarterback Tom Brady, you can’t have a discussion about the best quarterbacks since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970 without including Brady.

Five Super Bowl trophies, two league Most Valuable Player awards, 12 Pro Bowls, Brady is the biggest lock to be a Hall of Famer entry in his first year of eligibility as anyone who has ever played the game.

But the other indisputable fact about Brady is that he will turn 40 before the start of the 2017 NFL season and the NFL has not been kind to quarterbacks once they hit that milestone.

It’s cute that the media buys into the myth that Brady will play at a high level for several more years, an idea that New England owner Robert Kraft pushed at the annual owners meeting when he claimed that Brady will play for another “six or seven years.”

History tells a far different story, however.

Only a handful of quarterbacks have played past the age of 40 and the longterm results have not been pretty:

Brett Favre led the Minnesota Vikings to the NFC Championship Game at the age of 40. The next season he played 13 games, threw 19 interceptions against just 11 touchdowns, and retired.
Warren Moon made 32 starts from ages 40 to 42, passing for 3,678 yards and 25 touchdowns for a 7-7 Seattle Seahawks team in 1997. The next season, at age 42, he was down to 1,632 yards and 11 touchdowns in just 10 starts, making him the only quarterback in league history to pass for more than 1,000 yards past the age of 41.
Vinny Testaverde kept it going until the age of 44, but his last good season came in 2004, the year he turned 41. After that, he threw for 1,758 yards, seven touchdowns and 12 interceptions total in his final three years in the league.

Even in the quarterback-friendly era of the current NFL, the odds of Brady posting more than two good seasons at the most are a long shot. And we’re willing to bet that “long shot” are not two of New England head coach Bill Belichick’s favorite words.

Which brings us to the second myth.

------------------------------------------------

The pro-Jimmy Garoppolo camp would have you believe that Garoppolo is a quarterback rarely seen in the likes of the NFL.

Tall (6-foot-2), strong armed and handsome, he is right out of central casting when it comes to wanting a quarterback. And talented, too! The six quarters that he has played in his three-year career are unlike anything that NFL has ever witnessed.

Which if true, raises the question of why the Patriots would be willing to trade a transcendent player like Garoppolo, even for a ransom?

If you buy into the idea that Brady will defy the entirety of NFL history and continue playing at a Super Bowl level until the age of 46 or 47, then it makes sense that the Patriots would be willing to trade Garoppolo, who is entering the final year of his rookie contract.

If New England does not do something now (if not sooner), then they “run the risk” of losing Garoppolo for “nothing” following the upcoming season as he will assuredly ride off to a new team and a big-money contract.

But time is not necessarily on the side of the Patriots.

As we’ve pointed out, Brady more than likely only has two good years left. Belichick will turn 65 in a few days, and even for someone who seems to enjoy the work, the grind of being an NFL head coach will eventually wear him down.

Does New England really want to run the risk of seeing Brady go down with an injury and have another Super Bowl run ruined because they don’t have an adequate backup? Is that really the plan?

Wouldn’t the Patriots be better off keeping Garoppolo as an insurance policy for 2017, see how things go with Brady, and then simply put the franchise tag on Garoppolo after the season? The Patriots have an estimated $42 million in available cap space for 2018, and in a league where Mike Glennon will be paid $15 million, surely the Patriots can find some cap space to pay for a once-in-a-lifetime talent Garoppolo. Right?

And, if not, then what does that tell you about Garoppolo’s real talent?

Which brings us to our final myth.

---------------------------------------------------

While it may seem as if the Browns are the only team in the league that can’t find a quarterback, the truth is that the NFL is starved for competent quarterback play.

The San Francisco 49ers need a quarterback, but signed Brian Hoyer in free agency to go along with Matt Barkley.

Hoyer’s former team, the Chicago Bears, need a quarterback, but signed the aforementioned Glennon as a free agent.

The Houston Texans – a team reportedly built to “win now” – are rumored to be ready to roll into 2017 with Tony Romo and his 85-year-old back once Romo hits the free agent market.

The New York Jets, Jacksonville Jaguars and Denver Broncos, among others, also need a valid NFL starting quarterback.

Yet the Browns are the only team in the entire NFL that must “do whatever it takes” to trade for Garoppolo. How is that?

Why aren’t the Texans going “all in” for Garoppolo? Head coach Bill O’Brien spent five years with the Patriots – two as quarterbacks coach and one as offensive coordinator – so you would think that he, of all people, who have an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of Garoppolo and be willing to make a move for him.

It has been argued that because the Browns have the most to spend in a trade, then they should simply spend it all to acquire Garoppolo. And while it is always fun to see a team bid against itself for a player, the Browns are working hard to become a smart franchise, so why would they do that?

If no other team is willing to trade for Garoppolo, and the Patriots really have no intention of trading him, then why in the world would the Browns make the Patriots the type of offer that they can’t refuse?

There are multiple reasons for why the Browns should take a hard pass on chasing another team’s backup quarterback. In Garoppolo’s case, the cost in terms of draft picks and a new contract – which he will certainly want as part of any trade – is too high for a player that the Browns will not even be able to talk to until after the trade is complete.

When you lay it all out on the table, it is easy to see just how misguided all the trade talk really is.

Good read, and I agree.

Could have been really informative, but I'm not sure what I gleaned from it...

I got 2 things from it.

O'Brien has NEVER been around Garoppolo in NE..

Noone ever said to blow all of our assets on Garoppolo.

If no Garoppolo, I'm hip with Grossi and his latest mock.

Garrett
Trubisky
Budda Baker

Pass Rush
QB
Back end help

Secondary improved on all levels.

Me too - I thought it was a bit of a sham all round.

Like the quote about "buying into Brady playing till he is 46-47" .... Brady doesn't need play 6 or 7 more years to to make JG superfluous .. if Brady plays 3 more years JG is unsustainable for the Pats. Even 2 more years out of Brady and it's real tough for the Pats to keep him. . . and surprisingly while it notes other old QB's dropping off the cliff it fails to mention that at 39 years old Brady had one of his BEST EVER SEASONS which is NOT true of any other QB in the history of the NFL.

Patriots could easily keep JG as insurance for an injury. So the result might align with the article - the rest of the article though is pretty bogus ... oh yeah, like the ASSumption that if the Browns trade for JG it WILL cost a King's Ransom.... that's complete speculation. No-one knows at this point. Yeah - so most of that was drivel imo.

Did any of you click on the link and check out the site and author?

Way to keep an open mind and stay objective.

Way to try and deceive posters and try to win an argument by posting garbage.

Yeah, it's a site owned and operated by Sports Illustrated. So what?

I didn't.
Can you clarify your point?

Why didn't you? Make up your own mind.

Why are you guys so hell bent on getting matt Flynn'd?

It's mind boggling how you guys fall in love with a soon to be 4th year backup with all of 6 quarters of starting experience. And want to give up #12 for a guy who was drafted in the 2nd round, and hasn't played enough to even warrant giving up a 2nd round pick.

Then on top of all that, you guys want to throw money at this guy for proving......absolutely nothing.

And then when this guy ends up sucking, you guys are gonna blame the coach, he gets fired, then blame the other coach before realizing the guy is trash. Then we will go into 2019/2020 draft talking about drafting another QB, but then all of a sudden, you guys will yet again fall in love with whoever is backing up the patriots starter, whether it's Brady or brisett possibly. And around and around we go.

Same ole same ole.

Patriot QB's leaving NE and leading their new teams to the super bowl: 0-3.

None of them can even maintain the starting job, yet somehow, the browns are gonna strike gold and Jimmy G will be different.

Ok.

Why is it any more garbage than your opinion?

Yeah, let's ignore actual game footage, comments by other players, comments from coaches............and instead rely on the scientific method that says Jimmy G will suck because other backup qbs have sucked or on wild speculation by some two-bit author who I doubt even has a degree in journalism.

That's smart.

1st, I am on so sporadically that by the time I get to a link the discussion has frequently moved on. So unless an link really peaks my interest I don't typically open them up.

2nd, I am not sure which link you are specifically referring to.

3rd, I don't want to put words in your mouth. I would prefer to have your point spelled out so that I am not misinterpreting your meaning.