DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

It is.

The way we value things, Pryor needs to be in a big contract now. Next year he will be 29...a big deal takes him 33 or so.

That doesn't fit the profile of what we want to do.

Agreed.
It's just smart football & business.

Pryor has great potential, and he was a good receiver when he didn't disappear last year, but with where he is right now, he is completely replaceable.

The FO protected us from his loss by bringing in Britt. It would have been great to have both Pryor & Britt, but the facts that you laid out say all we need to know: it was time to let him move on. He didn't want to be here, he wanted to chase "elite" money.

I have a saying I like to use for things like this:

"He must not have a real friend in the world."

That doesn't mean he's a bad guy or that he has no friends. But...a REAL friend would break down what he was doing and get through to him that a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush...that he's a success at football and proved himself worthy...the Browns contract offer confirmed that...that he's not a failure for not getting that POTENTIALLY great contract...that he's not a failure for not making 50 million but did darn well making 32 million.

That missing friend would have likely convinced him long ago that he was NOT going to be an NFL QB and he then would have made this switch earlier in his career. If he had THAT real friend...and made the switch several years ago...he might have just now landed that contract that he seems so desperate to get.

He finally found that friend in Hue...and he looked away anyway. Some guys just can't get it.

Braxton Miller was headed in that same direction. His real "friend" came in the form of Urban...and that was the best thing that ever happened to that guy. He had enough sense to listen.

I've been blessed enough to have a couple real friends like that. Guys willing to risk a friendship to tell you something you need to hear when you won't or can't listen.

I hope it works out for TP...but my guess is that he looks back on this time with regret...and that's whether he hits it ($) big next year or not. He finally found that friend...and he chose to walk away from him.

I thought the Browns offered a 4 year contract to Pryor?

Ya I think it was basically the same contract that Britt got.

4 yrs...32 million...16 or 17 guaranteed...from memory. Might have had more guarantee than the deal Britt got.

Britt was a stud on crossing routes last year - if we stick with kessler (and his accuracy) we may see britt as being more valuable than TP in 2017

We all have our dreams.

Man are u guys in for a MAJOR DISSAPOINTMENT ...

*LOL* ... great post Pit ...

Great minds ....

They did. What I am saying is they basically didn't want to offer a 5 year deal. He's too old. Funny me talking about a 28 year old being too old.


But, that's the deal. We didn't want to offer him a 1 year deal, then have to go through the process again next year.

We offerd a good deal. Nobody offered better...right?

Pryor is now betting on himself. I can admire that, but that then takes him out of our thoughts, the Browns aren't going to offer 29 year old receivers 60 mil deals....we might offer a 26-27 year old that, not a 29 year old.


Probably our version of a actuary table on the life of a NFL receiver. The numbers say he will be dead as a player before he reaches contracts end.

Almost no one reaches the end of their contract without renegotiating or being cut.

Another reason we are on top of it...You can cut them the last year, but you have way overpaid. The last year is the value year for a team.


If you could sign them and pay them a big last year salary and a $20 signing bonus, do it by all means, but it doesn't work that way.

Best crossing route runner (min. 10 targeted routes): Kenny Britt, Los Angeles Rams

Kenny Britt was incredibly efficient on crossing routes. He caught 15-17 targets for 224 yards, 2 touchdowns and a 158 WR rating — 12 points higher than Chris Hogan, the second-highest player. Ten of his 15 catches resulted in a first down or touchdown, converting 5 of 9 on third down. Britt was very efficient after the catch, averaging 6.06 yards and in the top half of all qualifying receivers. Britt showed the ability to run the crossing route at every level, having an aDOT of 9.12, with his route depth as low as 3 yards and as high as 18.

I loved the guy - loved his story, wanted to see it play out here.

But as I try to understand before being understood and pull back layers of emotion I can see peens actuary tables in play

A big chunk of TPs collective impact came in two games against the Dolphins (25th-ranked pass coverage) and the Titans (26th-ranked pass coverage).

these games also came in Weeks 3 and 6, before Pryor was viewed as a legitimate threat.

*edited gave wrong credit for actuary table quote

Wow! People make excuses for poor play and then they make excuses as to why guys played well.

This place is insane!!!!

who is excusing what ???

the title of the thread is "The Front Office .... continued"

I am trying to contribute to a discussion on the FO that keeps devolving into an evaluation of TPs saga

its an active dialog on the FO and I am trying to get a read on how they are reaching their decisions

I think looking into the value of the contributions of the players most recently "traded" for each other (Britt & TP) helps the topic

please feel free to edit ruthlessly

You bring up stats that are a clear attempt to discredit what Pryor accomplished. Are you denying that?

Why didn't other players step it up against those teams?

Come on, man! Pryor played well last year. Finding BS excuses as to why he played well is lame.

yes I deny that

I am not discrediting TP - those stats were offered as context (I am all in on the stats are for losers - I watched every game at least twice just like you and wanted him back)

if you cant read that context without getting emotional - thats on you

I am trying to understand this FO and digging deeper is valuable

Like .... no matter what happens in the draft Kessler is probably the game 1 starter and his best attribute is accuracy - well the receiver we replaced TP with is supposedly really good at crossing routes and might be a good match for our placeholder starter as the browns look to grow (and most importantly get some W's)

that's the value I am trying to bring to the board

* almost 14 years ago my dodgers brought depodesta to town our writers and a bad owner ran him off before we could get a good read on how he was transforming the organization (fortunately we are back now) but the mix here for our browns is the same a bad owner (hopefully I am misreading little jimmy) and some boisterous writers

Emotional? LOL............I was laughing at the absurdity of your claim. I wasn't upset at all.

One more question: Since you dogged Pryor for putting up big numbers against Miami and Tennessee...............who was the QB in those two games?

I am not dogging TP - I am trying to get into the heads of our FO

I made no claims - and certainly not some "absurd claim" so your out loud laughter is misplaced.


Back on topic - I actually would love to see Hue's thoughts (I consider him part of the FO - lord knows he is the only one with a football IQ at least on paper) - his only words I remember were - " I hope he makes the right decision " Did Hue really care that much about bringing TP back or was he just a replaceable cog and agreed he wasnt a 15 M guy

** I know how weird you guys get with the "answer my questions" stuff kessler was the QB and the two guys had some good chemistry - part of the reason I wanted him back

I will cut to the chase. Bringing up stats from two games to discredit the accomplishments of a player is weak.

Why didn't you dog Cody?

What about the other receivers? How did they do in those games?

Here is what I think.............I think you are apologizing for the FO not being able to retain TP by making some absurd claim that he wasn't really all that because he put up big numbers against Tenn and Miami.

And man............I am not really sure those are two bad defenses.

See.............if mac made claims [only polar] like you just did.........dozens of people would be ripping on him. Yet, your outrageous take is ignored by all the homers.

Sorry if you don't like this, but I think objectivity is better than bias.

He's not dogging anyone. He is merely saying that there is one way that Britt might be able to help, if we have a QB, like Kessler, who might throw more slants and other short passes. He didn't say anything bad about Pryor, he just looked ont he bright side of one way that Britt might help the team.

Dude, you're totally being unfair to RAW. He's stated more than once he wanted Pryor to stay here so he's not dogging the guy. And no, he' snot apologizing for the FO because the freakin FO HAS NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR in regards to Pryor. The FO wanted Pryor as a cornerstone to build on and offered him a very fair contract. What they wanted in return was loyalty. Instead Pryor wanted a 1 yr contract so he could interview for another team. Pryor is the only reason Pryor is not in Cleveland this season.

The only thing RAW is guilty of here is trying to provide some speculation and possible insight that explains the Britt pick up, something I have yet to see anyone here do. A move if you recall I think neither of us are crazy excited about.

I can get on board with this thinking and it actually fits within my conspiracy theory over on the Analytics thread where I talked about accepting the fact you don't have that franchise QB yet and building to the strengths of the guy you do have behind center.

One thing I've noticed, particularly with the Browns since at least Chud is that we've had offenses here that have allowed us to win games so long as we had competent QB play. I think Hoyer is my best example of that.

We have to get out of the frame of mind where by we view a 8-8 season without an elite QB at the helm as somehow being a set back and screwing ourselves over.

...or someone has an opinion that's different from yours and explains why he feels that way by providing supporting data.

I feel like we've all suffered through this song and dance hundreds of times before.

Sigh.

Not being unfair. He pointed out two games and their defensive rankings. Gee, I wonder if other WRs don't have big games against certain defenses.

Let's see.

Julio Jones had 12 catches for 300 yards against Carolina, who was ranked 29th in pass defense. He had 8 catches for 111 against Tampa Bay, who ranked 22nd in pass defense.

You don't think that we can't use this "data" for every player who puts up good numbers in this league?

I feel like we've all suffered through this song and dance hundreds of times before.

Sigh.

Any time we can get information from the front office, it gives us a better idea on how the Browns front office operates. Some interesting reading in the article below...

Browns' Sashi Brown will 'stay aggressive at QB' and 9 other takeaways from NFL meetings

Updated March 29, 2017

Sashi Brown will 'stay aggressive' in finding a QB
PHOENIX — Browns head of football operations Sashi Brown met with a small group of local media at the NFL owners meeting on Tuesday and covered a wide range of topics, including the pursuit of the quarterback, how Terrelle Pryor got away, his thoughts on the Brock Osweiler trade, possible interest in the No. 1 overall pick and more.
He echoed the sentiments of coach Hue Jackson, who vowed the Browns are doing everything possible to find their long-term QB, from scouring other teams’ rosters to conducting private visits with the college prospects, which Brown is in on this year.

The top personnel executive in the building says it’s a collaborative effort, but that he still has final say over all roster decisions, including the No. 1 pick and acquiring that elusive QB. He stressed that it’s his job to "get Hue the talent he needs to helps us compete and win this division."
Here are 10 takeaways from 20 minutes with Brown:
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

1. Expect some bold moves to land a QB
Brown can't mention the names of other teams’ QBs (Jimmy Garoppolo, AJ McCarron), but he indicated he’ll roll the dice to land their man, whether that’s trying to trade for a veteran or moving up to take a college QB.
“We’ve shown we want to be aggressive and that doesn’t necessarily mean that something’s going to get done,’’ he said. “We don’t want to force things just to have things happen, but we are going to stay aggressive at quarterback as we will all positions.
"But we also know one player is not going to change things. Finding a starting quarterback, whether he’s on our roster and develops or we go out and acquire one, will help things dramatically, but we’re going to take it step by step here and see what opportunities present themselves."

2. Will Brock stay or go?
Brown wouldn't concede that Brock Osweiler was a throw-in to acquire a second-round pick in the trade with the Texans or that the team is just waiting to unload him and at least some of his $16 million guaranteed salary.
"I wouldn't characterize it that way and I can understand how it would be interpreted that way,’’ he said. “But for us, it was about finding another young quarterback but also making sure that the conversation that came along with it made sense for us. So it's the package of the player and the pick.’’
He did indicate, however, that he talked to teams about Osweiler soon after the trade.
“There's no doubt there was a lot of calls that came into us,’’ he said. “There's a number of teams out there looking for quarterbacks still and certainly were at that time right at the start of free agency and we're talking to teams constantly during that period. We're not going to get into some of the discussions (that took place) and some that are ongoing."
He also defended spending $16 million to move up from the fourth round to the second.
“We acquired a player under a (guaranteed) contract along with the picks that made sense for us."

3. On losing Terrelle Pryor to the Redskins
Brown pinned Pryor’s departure on him and his agents, Drew and Jason Rosenhaus, after they turned down the Browns’ offer of $8 million per year for four years.
"First we feel good about having Kenny (Britt) added to our team,’’ Brown said. “We did try to work with Terrelle to try to find common ground and we just didn't. Terrelle decided he wanted to take a one-year deal. We had discussions with his representatives throughout. They were respectful. We wish Terrelle the best. He's not on our roster. In some ways, that's unfortunate. But in many ways, that's a decision that he (made)."

4. They will get calls for the No. 1 pick -- and they'll listen
Brown indicated that the Browns will stay put this year and select a player — presumably Myles Garrett. But he’ll answer the phone.
"We’ll always listen if teams want to call us,’’ he said. “We do feel good about some of the players that are going to be available at the top of the draft. We haven't made our decision yet, but we have a number of players that we feel like can really help us there. But we do know there will be a couple teams that are going to be interested in talking to us about that pick."

5. He’ll keep everyone in suspense until they’re on the clock April 27
Brown has no plans to announce their choice at No. 1 until they hand in the card in Philadelphia on draft night. At this point, he won’t even concede that the Browns have pretty much settled on Garrett, which sources have said is the case.
“I wouldn’t get into that and we’ve got some process left here, so other than to say obviously we recognize Myles’ talent, wouldn’t comment on that,’’ he said.
“At this point there are (several candidates at No. 1) to be honest and we want to use our full allotment of the clock. So we’re on the clock now and we’re going to continue doing work on all of these prospects, even the guys that we feel we have a really good grasp on.’’

6. Is Jackson is driving the bus on the QB decision this year
Although Jackson is expected to have a bigger voice on QB, the buck still stops at Brown’s desk.
“We’d reach that decision collectively,’’ Brown said. “At the end of the day it’s my decision on who we pick, but Hue and I talk constantly. We’ll have a lot more discussions between now and the night of the 27th, 28th and 29th to see what’s available there. If there’s a player on another team, that could be something that we look at as well. We’ll have a lot of those conversations and chop it up between the two of us to get to the right decision for our team."
He wouldn’t concede that Jackson has more input this season than last, when the Browns drafted a quarterback in Cody Kessler who didn’t fit his prototype.
“No, and I wouldn’t say he had too little, too much or anything like that,’’ Brown said. “I just wouldn’t compare it. We’re working well together is the way I’d characterize it.’’

7. On losing out on unrestricted free agent safeties Tony Jefferson and Bradley McDougald
The Browns struck out on two targeted safeties in free agency, while one of their own, Jordan Poyer, signed elsewhere. Jefferson took less money from the Ravens and McDougald opted for the Seahawks. What will the Browns do to fortify the spot? Ohio State’s Malik Hooker is one of the top two in the draft, and they’ll consider him in the first round.
“We'll look at the safety position,’’ Brown said. “We want to get better across the defense, but in the defensive backfield is certainly a place."

8. Will the Browns explore a trade for AJ McCarron
Brown can’t mention names, but would he trade for AJ McCarron, who said he wants to play somewhere? The Bengals will listen to any offers, but at least one source within the Bengals organization doesn’t see owner Mike Brown executing the first-ever trade with the Browns.
Will the Browns try? Jackson, speaking generically, has said “anything’s a possibility until it’s not.’’
“I’ve seen these reports (about McCarron)," said Brown. “Don’t believe everything you read."

9. On the 2016 draft class
Only second-round pick Emmanuel Ogbah lived up to expectations, and none of the 14 draft picks made the All-Rookie team. Jackson is calling for Corey Coleman to step it up in 2016, and the Browns are hoping for more out of their sophomores.
“We’re pleased with the strides that all of our guys (have made),’’ he said. “We’re pleased with what (Coleman) produced. We’ve got to keep him healthy this year and get going. We do anticipate all of these guys will get better in their second and third years. We certainly expect a lot from them."

10. On welcoming Josh Gordon back if he’s reinstated
Brown left the door open for Gordon's return, but it’s doubtful he’ll actually suit up and play for the Browns again. More than likely, they’ll try to trade him. The Browns have given Gordon enough chances and a change of scenery is probably best. But it can’t hurt to drum up trade offers.
“We’re not in a position at wide receiver to turn down a guy like Josh if we feel like he’s settled himself,’’ said Brown.
He noted that if Gordon is on his game, he’d ‘be a talent I think no team in the NFL would turn down if he got back in.’
Of course, Gordon first has to be reinstated, and Roger Goodell, who stuck his neck out for him last year, will want to be really sure this time.
link

Geez Mac,, THey offered him 8 mill a year for 4 years.... He turned it down... What do you want them to do, offer 10 million? That would have been STUPID

Mac does not seem to be considering what GM posted about this situation...

You are kidding...right?

I didn't see it either... But I just don't get how anyone can complain about this FO for offering a 4 year deal at 8 million per year to Pryor.

We all know that the devil is in the details so sure, there could have been language in the contract that the agents didn't like, but if he (pryor) does his job, he's got nothing to worry about.

I doubt any details would have nixed the deal. TP and his agents wanted to get him signed on a projection rather than what his value was. No other team offered better than we did. He ended up signing a 1 year, 6 mil deal loaded with incentives that will be very hard to attain.

TPs problem is his position change came late in a NFL life. After next season he will be what, 29? He might not be able to find teams wanting to put him on a 4 year mega deal. He needed to be in the middle of that last season. I am afraid TP made a serious mistake.

End of story.

I had forgotten about his age. Yeah, he could have had 8 mill a year for 4 years here. Yup, he made a big mistake.