DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued...

Mac,

I've found some quotes....









There are tons more...

Is it also obvious who the FO ass kissers are? ...

This shocks me from U ... i hardly ever agree with U but u usually don't just blindly stick up for the FO even when they clearly made a mistake ....

I'm glad your going to quit defending the FO and the mistake they made ....

GOOD JOB ....

You are being much less than kind...

But more than honest.

Making offers for more money than any other team is willing to offer is NOT being cheap.

Same with Pryor. The Browns offered him more money than any other team and Pryor picked a better situation for himself and his career... You just admitted it was Pryor's decision based on a better situation rather than the Browns playing cheap on him. Did you just experience sudden and striking realization?!



I'd like to see where the Browns have talked anything of the sort.

We've accorded him anonymity to allow for more bluntness and honesty. He's not cruel or mean (mostly) and doesn't abuse that protection. As always, he's informative.
This year, the scout, who has been in the NFL for decades, believes the draft is among the more top-heavy he's been around. The number of impact players is small, because, in his words, "this is a weak quarterback and skill-position draft."

The scout also feels that there are no true first-round quarterbacks in this draft. But because teams are so desperate they will reach, and that need to grasp at a QB will be the main story emerging from this draft.
It's why this scout, and so many in football that I interview, still believes the Patriots will trade backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo despite a report from Ian Rapoport and Mike Garafolo of NFL Network that the Texans and Browns likely won't be able to convince the Pats to part with him. Still, our personnel man is convinced at least one team will get so desperate they'll offer the Patriots a deal they can't refuse.
Everything you're about to read comes directly from our source. (Any pithy insights I have are in parentheses.) I've found him to be reliable, truthful and often highly accurate with his information. Still, his words aren't fact; they are based on what he's hearing.

The scout wasn't asked to predict every pick of every team (in some cases he does). I gave him the team and said talk. He talked…

1. Browns: Myles Garrett (Texas A&M defensive end) is the obvious choice here. But one thing I constantly hear is that the Browns want to trade down and accumulate picks. I also hear that the front office and (coach) Hue Jackson are clashing a bit over the direction they want to go. Hue wants a quarterback from the draft and they don't.

12. Browns: They might trade up with the Bills to get Trubisky. I don't think so, but it's possible. They are unpredictable, at least to me. (Me: The Browns are moving up to take a quarterback? What could possibly go wrong?)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27027...-nfl-draft-buzz

full article in the above link.

I swear if we take a QB #1 overall, I'll be sick. I find hard to believe Hue wants one from this draft class in the first round...

better be Garrett or another once in a life time player. (I think he is).

anyway came across this and had to share cuz I thought it was interesting that Hue is "clashing slightly" with the FO...If true the FO is right no Qb at #1

"Supporters" would be a more preferable choice of wording...

Posting things that you pass off as facts.....repeatedly, I might add. We have no idea what goes on, for the most past, but because some news outlet writes up a story, you pass it along as gospel and twist it into some situation that may not be there. I think that's what most people are frustrated with when it comes to your posts. You literally said, in a quote I posted of yours, that the Browns didn't want Joe Thomas. You claimed that to be a factual thing the past two years, yet here he remains.

I remember you and I had a brief back-n-forth when it came to all the rumors about Joe Thomas being traded in 2015. You claimed, as fact, that the Browns were shopping him and didn't want him. Then after the trade period ended, and nothing of substance happened, there was some Joe Thomas interview that you posted on a different subject entirely. Inadvertently, you proved your 'facts' as not being true when he was quoted as saying the Broncos called us about the trade and he was told he was going nowhere. (or something to that affect)

So that's where people get frustrated, maybe 'irked' is a better word to use. You read something and manufacture into some dire situation created only by you, and then repeat ad nauseam. This is a message board and do what you please within the rules, but don't be shocked when you get as many negative responses as you do when you post like you do. Most people would call your posts agenda posting....and I would agree. There are some posters that do that, and recently, I've grouped you into that unfortunate brotherhood. Because it is blatantly clear you don't like them....at all. And that's perfectly fine, but I just think many of your posts are unfounded, and quite frankly, ridiculous because they are short of facts and filled with made of controversies that rival soap operas more than anything else. It's what agenda posters do. Hate the current regime all you want, hell, I don't care. Just come out and say it is my recommendation. Admittedly, I lean towards liking what the FO is doing than hating it but nothing has been perfect. Hating the FO/coach doesn't make you an agenda poster, but passing off things like you have as fact (that aren't) just because you hate them fits that agenda mold.

Another example, you are calling the Browns cheap....really? How much money has Haslem spent in this FA period, or offered larger contracts to Pryor and Schwartz before taking smaller deals with other teams...or how about all the contract dollars (horrible or not, but many are horrible) thrown to Kruger, Bryant, Whitner, Bowe, T. Williams, Dansby, the Joe Haden extension, the Jamar Taylor extension, Jamie Collins extension, the Joel Bitonio extension, etc. How about the two facility upgrades the Haslem's have put into Berea in less than five years?

Saying the Browns are cheap is not true. Feel free to say they've made poor decisions drafting or poor decisions in FA (most would agree) or poor decisions hiring/firing three regimes in 4 years or something like that, but to say they're cheap is not factual, and you passing that idea off as fact is just another example.

It means you challenged to find quotes of you passing off things as fact that weren't, and he found quotes of you passing off things as fact that weren't.

It's pretty cut and dry.

HAHA....that was funny. I will say as others have mentioned,there are some folks guilty of this with the opposite viewpoint as well

True, but none of them have the guts mac has to ask for a critique.

Mike Williams was mentioned along with Western Michigan WR Corey Davis

Florida State RB Dalvin Cook, Clemson WR Mike Williams surface on list of Browns' pre-draft visitors - Cleveland Browns - Ohio

link

More pressing needs for the Browns can be found at several positions, including wide receiver. And Clemson receiver Mike Williams will visit the Browns sometime this week, a league source said Monday.

Williams, a projected first-round selection, told NFL Network last week he had pre-draft visits scheduled with the Browns, Baltimore Ravens and Tennessee Titans.


ESPN reported Watson will visit the Browns on Tuesday. NFL Network reported Western Michigan receiver Corey Davis will visit the Browns on Tuesday. (projected to be a 1st or 2nd round pick)

memp...simply posting quotes you claim are mine with any link and absolutely no context to what I might be commenting on...that stuff is worthless and proves absolutely nothing.

But I will do the homework for you...The Browns were discussing trade talk with Joe Thomas going to Denver for draft picks...read

Browns, Broncos discuss Joe Thomas trade but no deal by deadline

Jeff Legwold
ESPN Senior Writer
Nov 3, 2015
link

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- In the end, the Cleveland Browns were not going to part with eight-time Pro Bowl selection Joe Thomas without an offer that made it worthwhile to do so, and the Denver Broncos, Super Bowl aspirations or not, were not going to put themselves in a draft or salary cap bind to make the deal.

The two teams had discussions leading up to, and just before, Tuesday's trade deadline about the Browns left tackle, but neither team felt good enough about the offers on the table to close the deal.

Multiple sources confirmed Tuesday afternoon, just after the deadline had passed without a deal, that the Browns had asked for as much as two first-round picks from the Broncos at one point and that early Tuesday afternoon, Mountain time, the two sides were closing in on a package that included Thomas and a Browns fourth-round pick in exchange for the Broncos' first- and second-round picks in the 2016 draft but that the Browns also wanted to include the Broncos' 2016 third-round pick.

At that point no deal was made, and the 7-0 Broncos will continue to rotate Ryan Harris and Tyler Polumbus at left tackle while Thomas will continue to be one of the Browns' foundation players.

Thomas has never missed a game in his career -- 136 consecutive regular-season starts that span 8,443 consecutive snaps played -- and he has been named to the Pro Bowl in each of his eight previous seasons.

Thomas had also recently said he didn't want to be traded.

"I'm not a quitter,'' Thomas told reporters earlier this week. "I'm not a guy that gives up on my goals, and my goal from day one was to be part of the turnaround here and that hasn't changed.

"The reality of it is we're right now a 2-6 team and the trade deadline is coming up. If you're a team that doesn't have a winning record I imagine it happens all the time where teams will call up your team and find out if you're available for a trade. It's happened in the past with me in my career. But it's out of my control. I want to be here. I want to finish my career here.''

Browns general manager Ray Farmer said Tuesday the Browns had not shopped any player.

"We didn't actively try to go out and move anybody,'' Farmer said. "There's not a single team that I called and said, 'Hey I'm shopping so and so.' There was no shopping from my perspective. But I definitely listened. I think that's part of my job.''

Broncos executive vice president of football operations/general manager John Elway, who made a deal for San Francisco 49ers tight end Vernon Davis on Monday, outlined his willingness to make more deals after that trade as well as outlined his framework for walking away from a potential deal.

"I'm always open,'' Elway said Monday after he announced the trade for Davis. "We're always listening.

Elway also explained his parameters for closing a deal as well.

"I think that we're always trying to get better,'' Elway said. "If we have any opportunities to get better and we think that the compensation is fair, then we're going to do everything that we can to do that. I think that we're not going to mortgage the future to do it, but if we can add to our football team now and feel like it makes us better, we're going to look at all opportunities like that. I know that everyone looks at it as we're trying to win it now and we're all in for now. ... We're trying to win from now on.''

After the deal for Davis, Elway said the Broncos have six picks remaining in the 2016 draft, pending any compensatory picks the team gets for losses in free agency this past offseason (Julius Thomas, Terrance Knighton, Rahim Moore and Orlando Franklin).

So, to deal three more 2016 picks would have left the Broncos with just three picks in the draft, something Elway has previously said he wanted to avoid, saying "you have to keep stacking those draft classes if you're going to remain good in the long haul.''

The Broncos would have had to make some salary cap adjustments to add Thomas and still keep enough cap space for players who will be moved to injured reserve over the remainder of the season as well as replacements they sign. With Ty Sambrailo headed to injured reserve, the Broncos will have $12.1 million worth of salary cap charges from players on injured reserve, including $10.6 million from Ryan Clady.

The Broncos had about $5 million worth of cap space after adding Davis, and the pro-rated cap charge for the rest of 2016 for Thomas would have been more than $5 million. To get Thomas on the roster and still have enough room to make future moves, the Broncos would have had to rework some current contracts or potentially release players.

Thomas also has three more years, beyond this season, remaining on his contract. He has salary cap figures of $9.5 million in 2016, $10 million in 2017 and $10 million in 2018. His acquisition likely would have affected Clady's future as well.

Clady, who has had three major surgeries in recent years, including this year's ACL repair, is scheduled to count $10.1 million against the salary cap in 2016 and $10.6 million in 2017.

But according to those with knowledge of the trade talks, the Broncos were confident they could work out the salary cap issues necessary to make a deal for Thomas if the terms could be worked out.

ESPN's' Pat McManamon, Adam Schefter and Dianna Russini contributed to this report.

Not only were the Browns discussing trading Joe to the Broncos in 2015, but according to this article from Joe Thomas' agent, dated 3/20/2017, trade talks between the Browns and Broncos date back to "2013"...read.

Agent for Joe Thomas discusses possible trade to Broncos

March 20, 2017 6:13 pm
link

Could the Denver Broncos trade for Cleveland Browns All-Pro left tackle Joe Thomas?

Denver shored up their offensive line this offseason by signing guard Ron Leary and right tackle Menelik Watson, but they still need someone to protect their quarterback’s blindside. Donald Stephenson will likely get a chance to compete for the job, but the Broncos would be wise to look for an upgrade.

That’s where Cleveland and Thomas could come into play.

The Browns love trading for draft picks, and Denver owns 10 selections in this year’s NFL draft. Could the two teams work out a deal that would send Thomas to the Broncos?

His agent wouldn’t be opposed to a trade, but Thomas seems to be content in Cleveland.

“Joe’s such a good person that he’s never gonna complain about being on the Browns,” Peter Schaffer, the tackle’s agent, recently said on Mile High Sports Radio (via Mile High Report). “He’s an incredibly optimistic guy. As they rebuild the team, he gets more and more excited about the direction that team’s going.”

But if a trade were to happen, Denver would make sense.

“He did me tell that if there’s any place he’d like to be, he does love the Rocky Mountains,” Schaffer said. “Today I talked with people in just about every city that has an NFL team and nobody’s got the weather that we’ve got out here.”

The Broncos and Browns have had discussions about a potential trade for Thomas dating all the way back to the 2013 season. They’ve never been able to finalize a trade, but the two teams have talked about it.

One week ago, Jeff Risdon of Browns Wire said the possibility of Thomas being traded is “less likely than John Elway playing QB for Denver next year.”

Broncos fans can dream, though. The Rockies are indeed beautiful.

Literally nothing in that article actually says the two teams talked about trading Joe.

For real? Do you really want to go down the route of questioning whether or not those quotes are yours? It literally took me 3 minutes to find those on the search engine simply putting in "mac" and "Thomas", and if you don't remember, my original post alluded to there being many, many more.

I think the context of those posts was pretty self explanatory.

Not to "ass kissers"!

Mac,

The Browns offered both Schwartz and Pryor more money than anyone in the league. Repeat.. more money than anyone. Both Schwartz and Pryor wanted more. In Schwartz's case, he was offered more money to keep him from going on the open market, but he tested the waters anyway and found the Browns were offering more money than anyone, and came back .. only to find out the offer was made to keep him from doing what he did. Now the Browns knew that no one considered him to be as valuable as the Browns did. OMG .. the Browns were dead on in their valuation. Actually high. So they lowered their offer and Schwartz was insulted. I won't argue that the Browns may have been better with Schwartz, than without him. I say may have been because of all of the OL injuries last year. I am of the opinion that Schwartz would not have made a difference, because the whole line went south last year. Even at that, I feel that both the Browns and Schwartz made mistakes here... Repeat.. Both made mistakes.

In Pryor's case.. I feel the Browns are better off without Pryor. Pryor wanted a multi year contract in the range of one of the top 5 receivers in the league. Pryor is 29 years old, has limited route trees, is still learning the position, and the Browns offered more money than anyone in the league. Once again, Pryor, like Schwartz the year before, wanted more. Pryor had problems, age, inexperience, learning the position, and an overvaluation of his worth. No one would pay him what he wanted. If Pryor were still 26, maybe he would have gotten his money, but no one was going to pay a 29 year, with one full season as a receiver, top 5 money. I feel that even if Pryor has a Pro Bowl year in 2017, he will not get the contract offers he wants. Why? Because he will be another year older.

Where I do think the Browns may not be better without Schwartz and Pryor, I do not think they are worse either.

Just My Honest Opinion...

So here we are bickering over last years news.

That's why I don't like these "catch all threads". After a while too much gets lost in the bickering. Maybe somebody needs to start a "Cleveland Browns" thread and everything can get thrown in to 1 thread?

Or maybe the "2017 season" thread and everything that happens this season concerning the Browns should get put there?


Most of the stuff in here needs to be in the draft forum or the smack shack. It's been that way for a few months now.

I don't agree with everything you said.

But you used the term "route tree" and that's good enough!

#VersWouldBeProud

My ass kissers response was in reply to what was appearantly a complimentary use of adjectives in your opinion ... here's the KIND WORDS i replied to ...



U critiqued my choice of an "adjective" but not to his ... HUH .... so i must ASS-U-me you think being described as IRRATIONAL, NEVER HAPPY TROLLS is a positive thing and being called an ass kisser is much worse ...

I replied IN KIND ... i just followed his lead ...

ALSO there are many other words/phrases i could have used ...

- "mathematically challenged" would be a fine description ....

- "brain dead" could fit well there ... how much different than irrational is that really ... splitting hairs IMO ...

- folks who have there heads so far up the FO's butt they need the FO to unzip so they can breath ....

That ones my personal favorite ... *LOL* ...

I'm guilty of throwing the first stone much of the time ... not in this case ... u want to have a little fun and talk a bit of good natured smack ... i have no problem responding in kind ....

Lighten up dude ... its a football message board ... laugh and enjoy ... its much more fun that way ...

The message sent on this board when your involved is that your 110 percent certifiable. Your nuts, your off the rails,you make no sense, you follow only your own agenda. You march to the beat of a drummer that you and only you can hear. You have lost it bro,and I hate to watch the train wreck.

Sorry mac, the Browns have over 30 players coming in for a visit. Does that mean to you that they're "talking about" drafting all of them? Have you even heard a peep from the team that they'd like to draft any of them?

If all the team has to do is have a player in for a visit to constitute them "talking about" drafting them, then they're "talking about" drafting about 33 guys.

Why the focus on Williams?

Is it because it fits your agenda of making holes and having to fill them and they should have overpaid to keep Pryor and now they're "talking about" drafting Williams to try to fix their mistake?

This is the kind of thing you do. It's not lying. It's making a mountain out of a mole hill and then hate F'ing it like a two-dollar-whore who once stole your wallet until you've spent your fury posting as you fall asleep in your recliner, knocking over your beer. Then you wake up groggy the next morning and post it all again and again and again in every thread, regardless of the subject, because you have an uncontrollable, burning need to have everyone read your opinion as if it had merit. Often it doesn't.

One thing for certain, mac is the only one who has an agenda and all of the guys who defend the FO on every single thread are just objective, logical, rational, fair, and good posters.

lol I love/hate this thread

I think my annoyance with mac is he comes off as if he thinks he is all knowing. Most of the people that support the FO come off as knowing what they don't know, but being willing to give the FO the benefit of the doubt. (That or something is so ridiculous I just skim through it and shake my head without posting) Some of that is no doubt projection on my part. I think some of it is just psychology/societal norms. Showing positive emotion is generally more acceptable than showing negative ones.

That might be the best summary of the issue that I've ever read on this board.

I actually believe if you're looking for PC you came to the wrong place and are addressing the wrong poster. It's simply not going to happen.

I'd suggest you use the adjectives you feel are proper and come to the realization that others will do the same. lol

I could care less about being politically correct, Pit. I was simply twisting the dog's tail as they say. However, the lack of respect (at times) for other posters is bothersome. Critique the post of course, but keep the personal out of it...

I try to keep my responses of a more civil tone myself. Different posters have differing personalities and to me it just goes with the territory.

It's only personal if you're not friendly. Think Don Rickles (RIP). It's often just some good-natured ribbing.

Quite true Double-D, but while "ribbing" is certainly acceptable, posts of a provocative or in-your-face nature serve only to invite a response of a similar tone...

And 'round and 'round it goes.