DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued...

My own opinion is that the decision had more to do with Hue's loyalty toward Hawk. With all the drafted WRs, the writing was on the wall for one of them. I believe he should've kept Gabriel and cut Hawkins, but... well, you know. Gabriel did nothing but show ability from the moment he stepped on to the field as an UDFA in 2014. Cutting him was a mistake, IMHO. Hue's decisions like this one, bringing in RGIII, and drafting Kessler in the 3rd round really make me wonder about the dude. I want him to be a great coach for us, I pray he's not FOS.

People also forget that Hawk and Gabriel have two different skill sets. They don't really play the same position.

Not to mention anyone was going to succeed on that Atlanta offense.

This falls under the category of piling on for piling on's sake. The FO has done plenty wrong. I don't think this is one of them.

Not sure I get where they have different skill sets, or play different positions. In a traditional system where there are two clear #1 & #2 WRs, they would be slots. And I don't blame the FO, I don't "blame" Hue, I just don't happen to agree with the decision to keep Hawk over Gabriel, and think it was a favoritism move. And while certainly not a critical mistake ala Schwartz, I do believe it was a mistake. But again, JMHO. Obviously Hue didn't see it that way, but Hawk is 31 and Gabriel is 26. Hawk had something like 600 yards production the past two years with us, Gabriel had closer to 850 his last two years with us. All with crappy QBs. The decision doesn't even seem close to me. But we'll see how much production Hawk has for this team moving forward, or if he's even here in September. To be clear though, I'm not piling on. It is what it is.

You know I agree. Depends on which side you look on.
I know Diam is disappointed that I tend to hold the FO blameless but the way I see it, with MS or Gab, the way it came down there's really no blame on the FO. Could they have tried harder with MS or could they have said Gab is really a speed demon? Sure, anything is possible, but it didn't happen that way. They kept Hawk IMO because he's a VET and they have all these young Wr's now. Up to that point you can't blame them. MS was a please don't leave to test FA and his agent didn't listen so you can't blame them on that one there also. I'm sure they make mistakes, we all do. I just don't see any right now and thats ok.

*LOL* ... I'll make sure it don't go to your head .... *L*

As for the rest ... not sure we disagree on much ... EXCEPT u ENDED the story to soon ... did u notice how i crafted my response with the NOT A MISTAKE parts right up until they SHUT THE DOOR ON HIM w/o so much as a discussion when he came back .... there's NO JUSTIFICATION for that UNLESS U HAVE THE SOLUTION ....

And again ... we may or may not have a decent RT on our team ... will this be two years of HORRIBLE RT play cause our FO didn't want to have a discussion after they pulled the initial offer and he came back ....

It was a mistake ... not the end of the world ... I'm not asking for anyone to be fired over it .. like i said ... it happens to even the very best ... but it was a MISTAKE ... not sure why anyone can't see that ...

So now its time for me to help u .... next time ... please finish the story .... *LOL* ..

I'm done with this and Gabriel .... your opinions and my opinion have been discussed, dissected and analyzed beyond recognition ... nothing new will be said or learned ... and as usual ... As this plays out i will be PROVEN RIGHT ....

OH .... one last point before i go ...

President ... u said Gabriel fell a lot .... well ... ironically enough he "fell" so little he earned a second round tender from his current team .... same tender the guy on our team that "falls" on his own got .... *LOL* ...

Not sure why I thought that was interesting .... but i did ... *L* ..

Now THIS is a statement on the subject that is quite rational... much more rational than a lot of others that have been made. While everyone will have their own opinions on the impact of that decision, stating it like this makes it much easier to agree on the premise and maybe, just maybe concede a point.(the DT equivalent of seeing a unicorn lol)

A mistake Hue probably had a big hand in. He had Hawk in Cincy. I think he wanted someone in the room who knew his route trees and terminology.

Everyone seems to forget that Gabriel looked like crap in preseason. Yes, Payton did nothing but they expected that when they drafted someone from UCLA. The issue is probably more with drafting Payton than keeping him, if there is one.

What did Greenbay win letting center JC Tretter walk?

What did Cincinnati Bengals win letting guard Kevin Zeitle walk?

Wouldn't those two teams be better by re-signing their own?

Maybe they need a more experienced GM?

Back to talking about old news.



In breaking news, Generalaissimo Franco is still dead.

peen/others...how about we talk about the task facing the front office in 10 days a bit more. I started the subject toward the end of the last page and some may have missed it.

Let's hear some more opinions and thoughts concerning the job facing our front office in 10 days.



JMO, but I believe this is a rather easy draft for the Browns.

#1. Draft the best available...unless someone is willing to offer the Mother of All Draft Trades.

2. Don't draft a QB at #12 if it is not the QB you wanted. There is going to be outstanding talent setting at #12 and the Browns have many needs. Draft the best talent...

3. The #33 pick is another opportunity to draft another potential starter.

4. The #52 and #65 picks should provide a shot at two more highly rated players...2 more potential starters.

It does get more difficult the deeper you get into the draft, but the Browns first 5 picks could yield 5 new starters, potentially.

Hopefully, the front office will be prepared for most of the potential situations so they are not caught off guard. This front office has been together for a full year now and if they have done their homework, this draft should a fun event for Browns front office as well as for the Browns fans.

Treat every pick as if it was a 1st round pick..you never know what round the next Hall of Fame player might be drafted in.

Still?

MY WORDS EXACTLY WERE:

"Taylor Gabriel was clearly a guy that could have been kept. No question."

I never once said how he was gone... you just assumed I meant he left on his own. I know he was cut... You can find your head where the sun don't shine.

You won't see me apologize for your inability to read

Well, I think it's pretty clear in hindsight, Gabriel wasn't really given much of an opportunity to show his abilities here.

Hey, he got into a great situation and I'm happy for him..

Plenty of draft talk going on in the draft forum.

That's why the "The Front Office Thread" is BS intended for one reason alone - to bash the FO whenever you want to.

Everything about this team - from players, to coaching, performance on the field, in the draft, contract negotiations, scouting .... it is ALL falls under the umbrella of "The Front Office"..... literally 90% of all the different threads on DawgTalkers 'could' be put in this one.

But that would make no sense - if we are talking about Pryor... then the #1 overall pick .... and then Garoppolo ... then Cousins .... then last years draft .... then - whatever - .... it is not convenient to have them all mashed together in one thread. The purpose of individual threads is to stay on point and talk about one subject.

But Mac, your intention appears to be to group everything together.... so that anytime you want it seems appropriate to bring up unrelated items where you bash the FO. Whether it's imaginary phone calls with Elway or rehashing Schwartz for the 50th+ time.

There have been some great posts on this thread but they get lost and drowned out by the bickering. jmo.

He showed off a lot of abilities while he was here.

His ability to drop the ball.

His ability to get hurt constantly.

Yeah,, Too bad he didn't show up here the way he showed up down there. Either way, things happen like this.. Can't worry about it.

Goodness knows the Lions and Millen sure tried...

Browns sign RB George Atkinson III and DB Marcus Burley

Posted 1 hour ago

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...83-4b1e3459b04f

Atkinson and Burley both spent 2016 in Cleveland

The Cleveland Browns signed exclusive rights free agent RB George Atkinson III and restricted free agent DB Marcus Burley.

Atkinson appeared in all 16 games with the Browns last season after joining the team via waivers from the Raiders during final roster cuts. He registered his first career rushing attempts during the 2016 season finale and finished with seven carries for 34 yards with one touchdown. For the season, he added six special-teams tackles and eight kickoff returns for 137 yards. Atkinson was originally signed by the Raiders as an undrafted free agent in 2014 and has appeared in 21 career games.

Burley appeared in 12 games with the Browns last season after joining the team via waivers from the Seahawks during final roster cuts. He totaled five tackles, one pass defensed and two special-teams tackles. Burley was originally signed by Seattle as an undrafted free agent in 2013. He has appeared in 38 career games and totaled 43 tackles, two interceptions, two sacks and eight passes defensed.

If you want to talk draft stuff under the guise of "FO" then I think it's bogus. If you want to discuss Schwartz (again) under the guise of "FO" then I think it's bogus. If you want to talk about Pryor under the "FO" umbrella I think it's bogus.

If you want to talk about those things - have a thread about each topic. Don't blend them all together. That way when we are talking about one issue we don't have to get regurgitate the MS chain events again, and again and again and again. . . at the moment any time you want to set the stage for piling on the FO it feels like you have like a canned set of examples that get applied to every situation and issue. Everything goes in circles.

If you keep the MS talk to the MS thread then eventually it drops off the board and every one moves on. It might get brought up from time to time but it's not every flipping week.

You might see Pryor and Schwartz as being handled the same by the FO. I think the only similarity is that the Browns made both players the best multi year contract ANY team in the NFL offered them. The fact that neither is on the Browns hurts the team - but that is for different reasons.

Anyway - I'm not the board police. Post away as you want. I'm giving you my opinion ... I think the FO catch all thread is bogus.

I have more hope for Darius Jackson than Atkinson

I actually worry that we have too many "good" RBs. Guys with potential.

When you have a guy like Crow who needs carries to get going. A guy like Duke who's great in space.

There are only so many carries to go around.

Just put him on KR duties and show him videos of Josh Cribbs.

You can't teach that.

Yeah, he had unbelievable vision. GA3 just needs to learn how to convert his speed and his mass into impact force. He's 10 lbs heavier than Cribbs and much faster. You can't teach vision, but you can teach someone to break arm tackles and side glances.

What can we expect to hear from the Browns front office as the draft approaches? Bud vs. Doug

Bud Shaw, cleveland.com
Follow on Twitter
on April 18, 2017 at 5:00 AM, updated April 18, 2017 at 5:03 AM

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Sashi Brown and Andrew Berry are expected to meet the media Wednesday.

What should we expect to hear? Nothing particularly revealing for sure, given the draft is approaching and NFL teams pride themselves on making the CIA look transparent.

But that doesn't mean these kinds of press conferences can't be predictable. That's why my nomination for the most likely used phrase is -- as always seems to be the case in Berea -- "it's a process."

The Browns stripped the roster to its bones in 2016, a year that was spent in "asset accumulation."

If that's another common term used this week it had better be to announce the end of asset accumulation and the beginning of drafting top talent that makes a difference.

The Browns have 14 picks. They had 11 last year. They don't need 25 first-year or second-year players on the 2017 roster, so hopefully another term we'll hear during the actual draft itself is "trade up."

Hue Jackson never believed the Browns were going to finish 1-15. The emotional press conference he held when the record dropped to 0-12 was proof of it.

Early on, Hue told Browns fans his program was all about winning the Super Bowl and that opponents better have their fun at the Browns expense while they could.

Brown said before the season he would be disappointed if the Browns only won four games.

So let's rule two things out this week. The word "Super Bowl" and any estimated number of wins.

Hear us out, then tell us who got closer to what we can expect to hear when the front office addresses the media and fan base this week.



You can vote for one of three choices at this link

Jeff Schudel: Cleveland Browns should wait out Patriots for Garoppolo


By Jeff Schudel, The News-Herald & The Morning Journal
POSTED: 04/08/17, 5:41 PM EDT | UPDATED: 1 WEEK, 2 DAYS AGO

About two weeks have passed since the last rumor of the Browns trading for Patriots backup Jimmy Garoppolo circulated. That’s like going 14 days without learning about a Kim Kardashian drama.

I have consistently maintained the Browns should not overpay for Garoppolo by sending a bundle of draft picks to New England. Likewise, I have said I won’t believe the Patriots aren’t trading him until the trade deadline passes in November.

The closer the draft gets, it seems to me, the lower the ransom it would take to acquire Garoppolo. Why? Because the last thing the Patriots really want is to be stuck with him in 2017 and let him walk in free agency next year.

Garoppolo will command a salary similar to the $72 million, four-year deal the Texans gave Brock Osweiler last winter. The Patriots would have to either do that or make Garoppolo their franchise player.

Tom Brady will earn $14 million in salary, another $7 million as part of a pro-rated signing bonus and a $1 million roster bonus in 2018 and 2019 for a total cap hit of $22 million each year.

The Patriots would be looking at a salary cap hit of around $40 million on just their quarterbacks for the next two years if they keep Brady and Garoppolo. That isn’t going to happen, so the longer the Browns wait to make a trade if they are truly interested, the less they might have to pay the Patriots to get him.

One more wrinkle if the Browns are in love with Garoppolo; they could retain their draft picks and sign him as a free agent next year.

You could say, “But what if he doesn’t want to play for the Browns?” Then a trade before the draft would really be silly because the only way the Browns could justify it would be if Garoppolo agreed to a long-term deal first. They are not going to send multiple draft picks to New England to rent him for one year.

The Browns would still have to fork over the huge contract to Garoppolo, which I maintain is risky gambling on someone with two NFL starts. That is why I believe drafting a quarterback is still the best way to go.
link



I do agree with the writer that the Browns front office should not pay a kings ransom to the Patriots for Garoppolo. Maybe the #12 pick and one of our 5th round picks #177 or #183 would be the most that the Browns could afford without digging too deeply into the Browns rebuilding mission.

Sashi and Depo must wait Belichick out knowing that the worst case for the Browns would be getting Garrett at #1 and a QB that might not be Trubisky at #12 or later in the draft.

The Browns front office can not make a deal for Garoppolo without a long term contract signed first. Garoppolo and his agent can make unrealistic demands if they are not happy with the team seeking to trade. Indirectly, Garoppolo does have some say in where he goes.

The Browns would have to make Garoppolo a very rich man to get him to agree to a trade to Cleveland. Also, there may be other teams interested in Garoppolo..Chicago, San Francisco, Buffalo.

Weighing all the factors and options, it might be best for the Browns front office to draft the best available QB.

If a deal for Garoppolo is in the works, we should hear something soon.

jmo

Like some time in the next nine or ten days?

Yes, he was...

JMO....I don't like the term camp fodder. We signed him and he is a kid trying to make the team.

Good for him and good luck. I know you wouldn't like it if someone called your son camp fodder.

He gets a shot. Nothing wrong with that.

Good point. I've used that term before, I won't anymore.

he was on our team last year. not sure what week we picked him up tho.

No, you can post any way you want. I was just making a comment about how I feel. It wasn't meant to scold you or anything like that.