DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Why kids are growing up to be snowflakes.

First let me say I am not a parent. You guys that are parents may know these things already. It was all rather shocking to me, and I had no idea.

So I build/run online games for a living. The clientel is mostly teens and young adults.

Yesterday on my game we all had a chat convo that was disturbing to me. But not to the kids.

It started with one teen saying they were frightened that we were all going to be killed in a war with north korea. They were scared of being nuked.

So I explained that NK nukes cant reach us and they have nothing to worry about.

So then I asked why their teachers dont talk to them about north korea.

And SEVERAL of them told me they are forbidden to talk about politics or world events at school. And I was like wth, why is that? And they said because it causes fights.

So apparently many schools just dont let kids talk about anything relevant to the world anymore. What the hell is the point of social studies/history class then? How are they supposed to learn about the world?

Its not like one kid told me this. Several of them did.

Its terrible. No wonder they grow up afraid of their own shadow.

I am not saying all schools do this, but if I had kids I would yank them out of that school.

Teachers are supposed to teach them about current events and teach them how to have mature and rational discussions about it.

Instead they learn from whatever hysterical crap they read on facebook and twitter.

No wonder they grow up and need "safe spaces" and whatever scaredy crap stuff

If you are a parent, please have a convo with your kids about their school policies. If their teachers arent helping them understand current events, then please talk to them about it.

Because this is crazy. And I had no idea schools were neglecting kids like this.It made me really mad.

I know what you mean. My girl is fairly new to teaching and when in class a student got out of line, my girl rips him a new one about treating others with respect. The Teacher that was there with her took her aside and said that the Teachers there at the school were not allowed to talk to the Students that way because, now get this, They are not allowed to make the Students nor their parents Mad. She also has sent a few to the Principles office only to have them return a few mins. later with the Principle saying there's nothing they can do. Just look the other way. No wonder our school systems failing.

I could go on for a long time on this topic.

It saddens me.

Here‘s what I’m talking about.

I saw a few minutes of a movie on TV ~ a year ago. Just a few moments.

It was some drug movie I think about some nasty major marijuana smugglers. I saw a scene where the gang had apparently captured one of their rival gang’s girlfriends and they were torturing her by keeping her in a freezer with ice (wearing only a bathing suit).

The scene deeply disturbed me and still disturbs me now when I get cold.

And I’m a grizzled 60 year-old who has seen and experienced a lot.

It saddens me to think what a kid who sees this feels.

I think it’s hard for our minds to “blow-off” what we see on TV.

What we see on TV can affect our deepest instincts.

I had plenty of fears growing up without this.

Its not the teachers or the school's fault

It is all the intolerant people who have caused this

Anything said in a school that they don't like and there is an uproar about suing the school and demanding the teacher be fired.

Its a crime against humanity.

Kids are SUPPOSED to ask questions about current events.
Teachers are SUPPOSED to encourage discussion and learning.

When we come so far from that , when kids are forbidden to talk about it, then PC/AVOIDENCE has gone too far.

American kids are going to grow up idiots about the world.

Parents talk to your kids.

I'm really not sure how or when this happened, but at some point how you felt became more important than reality. At least, that's what I think it all boils down to.

I don't remember ever seeing anything like this in college, but nowadays I'm hearing all about microagressions and safe zones. We're talking about college, where you're supposed to be challenged. Now it's more important that nobody's feelings are hurt. I just can't imagine how woefully unprepared for the workplace I would be if I went to school in the environment that is currently permeating higher education.

Exactly. Probably the biggest problem I have at my job is other people besides myself. I know, I know, some will joke and say maybe its you. But yeah, you're going to meet people who are in a position that you are forced to deal with that because you need something from them. Happens all the time. They won't know how to deal with that....

Define "Snowflake" precisely please. What you guys use the term for usually means 'liberal' for any purpose. I've been called a snowflake several times on here and have never needed a 'safe space'.

I think it's just a liberal slur you and yours fire off whenever you need a safe space.

I know you have limited reading comprehension abilities, so its difficult for you to understand. Maybe you can read the first post and try really hard to grasp what this thread is about.

So if you had a kid and he was in , say 3rd grade last year, and he came home talking about all the great things Obama was doing as president . What would your reaction be ? I am not targeting you , just using this as an example, this is why teachers and schools are really afraid to talk about current events.

I am also of the belief that it is not up to the schools to teach our kids everything . Parents have a lot of responsibility also.

Well if the alternative was being forbidden in school from asking questions and having a discussions I would be happy if he came home talking about that.

Then as a parent I could continue the convo with him to whatever direction I saw fit.

and that is fair and reasonable, but many people are not fair and reasonable and get enraged by anyone having a different view than them

If adults want to have a meltdown that is one thing, but realistically, children in schools should not be forbidden to talk about politics or world events, just because some parent got their panties in a wad about whatever.

If a school bows down to that, then the superattendent needs to be kicked out. I would not like my childs learning impeded because of some idiot with an opinion.

My definition of the word has no authority.. but if/when I use it, I'm basically talking about people who live in a bubble, people who don't know how to act when they have their preconceived opinions challenged, people who find "aggression" or "offense" in simple disagreement, people who want the bully pulpit and by that I mean, they want to attend rallys and carry hateful vulgar signs about others but won't engage those "others" in honest debate..

It's not just liberals OCD, there are plenty of snowflakes on the right.. it has just been directed more at liberals because they are out of power right now and they are the ones protesting and viewed as "whining"... at some point, this pendulum will swing back the other way.

Now as for kids.. I agree with Eve for the most part. Kids are NOT encouraged to learn to think critically, as I always assumed was one of the higher goals of education.. not to just teach kids facts, but to teach them to THINK, to exchange ideas, to disagree, to debate... my daughter is 13, she will come home from school and tell me she learned about something controversial in history and we will talk about what she learned and I will play devils advocate and ask her questions from the other side of the issue..

I will give y'all an example of one of the problems I've seen.. my daughters class went on a field trip to DC a few weeks ago and I picked her up when they got back to school at 10:00 pm. some people parked in the bus lane so when the 4 buses pulled in, these cars were blocked in and surround by a couple hundred kids and parents who were trying to find their bags and get out of there. One woman was sitting in her vehicle right next to where a bus was unloading luggage and it was surrounded by people, she couldn't move. A 13 year old boy standing near the front passenger headlight yelled to another boy standing near the drivers door to grab his duffly bag for him which had just been unloaded off the bus... the boy picked it up and half threw it to him but it ended up sliding right across the hood of this womans car. You could hear the zipper dragging across the car.. the woman put her window down and told the boy to be careful, she wasn't screaming or being vulgar. At that point the boys mother was there and she got into with the woman in the car, her exact statement was, "If you have something to say to my son, say it to me." The woman in the car explained what had happened, the boys mother kept yelling at the woman in the car to stop talking to her child.... not a word was said to that boy by his mother, at least while I was standing there even though he willingly slid a piece of luggage across the hood of somebody elses car. Now I guarantee you, had that been me at 13, my mom or dad would have heard what I did, believed the adult in the car, and demanded I apologize to that woman, hell he probably would have made me go the next day and wash and wax her car. The lesson that boy learned that day is that it doesn't matter how stupid he is or who else he harms, his mom will defend him.... zero accountability, that's how you raise snowflakes.

I think my reading and communication skills are above average Eve, but thanks for that bit of nastiness. As for your point, you are correct, I responded to your headline and skipped your post when I seen it was you.

I did go back and read it and I think you have a point. We coddle kids far too often these days. I think kids develop better judgement when they are allowed to experience life with all it's ups and downs. I've thought forever that 'safe spaces' and limiting exposure to different views is a devastating practice.

Schools shouldn't necessarily teach every viewpoint on every topic, but they should encourage children to explore them, discuss them, and form their own opinions. It's the parents and teachers getting in the way due to their beliefs and not wanting the kids exposed to life.

One day these kids will lead the world... scary.

But if you walked into a Sunday School and asked them to explain Atheism in an open minded way so the kids could decide for themselves what they believe, you could guess the response. Same goes for schools ran by people with certain beliefs who must answer to their communities and parents at every turn... They have to limit kids exposure to diverse opinions on various subjects to keep their jobs.

I'm a public school teacher (7th year). I could go on for DAYS on this topic. Quite honestly, entitlement, laziness, lack of responsibility, etc ... it's at an all time high right now. Very rarely will you hear a kid say "Sorry" or "my fault" ... it's always "Yeah, but ..." or "Well, I thought ..."

If a student is failing in my class it's never their own fault ... the student and their parents will say "Well, that teacher ..."

I don't know the solution.

I miss the good old days when "Board of Education" actually ment something

The other day, I was at an establishment in my hometown and ran into a teacher who taught at the high school I went to. I did not have him as a teacher but we did recognize each other and talked for a while.

I like to ask questions and get people's opinions on things and this is especially true of someone like a teacher. The insight is fascinating. He was a bit liquored up and his responses were straight to the point. I asked if kids had changed and he made point after point about how different the kids are now. Entitlement, laziness, lack of responsibility... go down the list.

I even tried to play Devil's advocate, saying that we were probably like that too. He nodded and said there was some of it but it was not nearly as bad as it was now. It's a matter of numbers and attitudes. He said he could not get the kids to research anything. I made a point that most of these kids have huge and powerful smartphones and often times researching something is just a matter of typing it into Google. His look of dejection was painful as he acknowledged that and said most kids won't even do that (I ordered us a round for the troubles.)

There was more to it than that but that's the gist of it. I've had this conversation with other teachers as well and the viewpoints are usually similar, even among teachers with very different backgrounds.

Now that brings back memory's ( not all pleasant lol ) Can you imagine trying to use that today in a School system .. The kids are the ones that end up losing in life !

Another thread bashing millennials.

Somehow we're the snowflakes, even though the no spanking/everyone gets a trophy movement came from suburbia generation X and late generation baby boomers.

I was really hoping that the new lady of Education would reinstate corporal punishment. The kids really need someone to lay down the law to these brats.

or maybe parents should actually parent? My daughters already know better than to act up in school, and so far so good.

i dropped the hammer early on those two, that way i don't have to do it later on in life. they already know what's expected of them in public and in school, and already know and experienced the consequences of not behaving properly.

the issue is almost never the kid, but the parents.

I agree, but when the parents are as bad or worse than the kids you have to have someone to intervene and that's the teachers.

I feel you, but the teachers have enough on their plates.

Teachers are role models, and to an extent a disciplinary, but when a teacher essentially becomes a parent to these kids, expect massive problems to happen.

They have enough on their plates as it is.

“Easiest thing in the world, to raise a kid, if you follow the steps. First step: you take the kid and you put him out on the street corner, and you leave him there. You come back a week later. If the kid is still there, you’ve got yourself a stupid kid.” George Carlin

“The Self-Esteem Movement began in 1970 and I’m happy to say it’s been a complete failure because studies have repeatedly shown that having high self-esteem does not improve grades, does not increase career achievement, does not limit the use of alcohol, and certainly does not reduce the incidence of violence of any sort because as it turns out, extremely aggressive, violent people think very highly of themselves.” George Carlin

“Next stop, grade school, where [a kid] won’t be allowed to play tag because it encourages victimization and [they] won’t be allowed to play dodgeball because it’s exclusionary and it promotes aggression. Standing around is still OK. Standing around is still permitted but it won’t be for long because sooner or later some kid is going to be standing around and his foot will fall asleep and his parents will sue the school and it will be goodbye standing around.” George Carlin

“Parents are burning these kids out on structure. I think every day all children should have 3 hours of daydreaming. Just daydreaming. You could use a little of it yourself, by the way. Just sit at the window, stare at the clouds. It’s good for ya. If you want to know how you can help your children: leave them alone!" George Carlin

The kids are the product of their environment, we are basically talking about the environment...

they do have enough on their plate and their role should only be partial disciplinarian... the teachers job should be to maintain order in the class, send the kid to the office if needed... then the office should deal with it and alert the parents, who should be the ultimate disciplinarian.. but as has already been discussed, a kid acts up or gets in a fight or whatever.. teacher sends kid to office, office calls parents.. and parents make excuses for kids and blame the school, the teacher, the other kids, whatever.

Now there is a flip side to this.. teacher sends kid to office, office calls parents, kid shows up at school the next day with some pink welts on the lower butt/upper thigh and can't sit right in class (or is overheard complaining to friends about the ass-whooping they got the night before).. teacher calls office, office calls social services, social services visit parents...

So you have teachers complaining that kids have no discipline, while at the same time teachers are told to document/report even the slightest sign of abuse.. so who is allowed to do what?

This is it. The part that I'm struggling with is that I believe I'm technically a millennial. I don't remember seeing any sort of this like this when I was in college almost 10 years ago. 10 years ago sounds like a bit, but it's not that long ago, and there was none of this at Case. This is a pretty new thing.

I dunno the answer. Ask the suburbia women in your generation who started that movement in the first place.

We would all love to know.

I don't know how they decide when one named generation ends and another begins... but:

Baby Boomers were born from 1946 to 1964
Generation X from 1965 to 1976
Millennials (Gen Y) from 1977 to 1995
Centennials (Gen Z) from 1996 to present

Now I have no idea why some generations are almost 20 years long and Gen X is only 11...

My kids aren't even millennials, they are Gen Z... In fact, everybody under the age of 20 isn't a Millennial, so in being critical of school age kids, you aren't even talking about Millennials anymore..

I hate when Gen Xers call themselves Millennials. I can smell the botox behind the smile.

If you look at my first post, it has nothing to do with bashing kids. My issue is with school policies. Not kids, not teachers.

SCHOOLS. WHO CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO TEACH KIDS BECAUSE OF "FIGHTS". THEY JUST STICK THE HEAD IN THE SAND INSTEAD.

Everyone, except OCD, got completely off track on this.

And somehow the follow-up logic here is that the unreasonable and enraged people with closed minds are who we should give in to.

This exemplifies everything that is wrong with the culture of "P.C." in America.
The only response to "that hurts my feelings" should be "so what?" -- unless you're talking about your significant other.... then, you better be shopping for gifts, lol!

This isn't an issue that gets boiled down to a single, simplistic answer.

Parent do need to parent.
Teachers and schools need the freedom to discipline students.
Kids need to be taught to respect, and this needs to have the ability to have repercussions at each level if they don't.

The litigiousness of our society has basically destroyed most every facet of us. If we got rid of the ability to sue people for any & every petty little thing that we can conceive might yield a payout, this country would be in a FAR better place than it is, across the board.

Teachers don't need the freedom to discipline kids.

Administrative, maybe some public humiliation in front of class mates I'm cool with, but freedom to discipline also means physical, and nobody is putting a hand on my girls. Period.

I disagree completely. At the very least, Principals do.


Discipline does not have to mean physical, at all.... however, things sure weren't so soft in the day when the Principal could paddle a kid. Then again, if parents actually cared if a kid got sent to the Principal in the first place, that might help, too.... but, too often, the parents want to defend their kid instead of reprimand them.

Sorry if I'm a little confused here, but here's my take anyway.

For a very long time now, I've heard how educators are generally a liberal bunch shoving liberal views down the throats of our youth. How through their teachings they are creating the very "snowflakes" you speak of.

Now suddenly, you wish for these educators to be in charge of overseeing the teachings and discussions of these things?

Sounds like you want classrooms to sound like this forum. Everyone yelling but nobody hears anything.

Freedom to discipline involves physical if they so choose.

Which I have no doubt in my mind most schools will choose in favor of it.

You're not gonna convince me to let some one else spank my kids. Just not gonna fly.

As a parent, I can't have that much faith that essentially strangers aren't gonna abuse that kind of responsibility. Because there are sick bastards out there that enjoy that kind of thing of beating kids.

Also, as with anything else, teachers can and have taken it too far.

I would've verbally abuse my kids, so I'm damn sure not gonna take it from some teacher doing that to my kids. Some of these teachers are cussing these kids out and insulting them, but they will tell you that they're just showing some tough love.

So other than administrative discipline and a bit of being put on blast in front of classmates, leave the big discipline methods to the parents.

The problem will mostly be parents. Some parents are just way too buddy buddy with their kids.

Bro I see the way some of these kids talk to their parents in public, like amusement parks. I couldn't even fathom talking to my mom like that. My jaw would've had to get wired shut. If the parents have zero control, the schools are hoping it doesn't spill over.

Maybe I'm going the wrong direction with this, but my feelings on this is that in today's world.....sorry but there's just no real danger on a daily basis here in America.

There's no basic survival skills being taught in how to adapt to American society because there doesn't need to be anymore.

The way things are structured in our society, you literally have to go out of your way to fail. I'm not saying being average, but just simply not failing in societal life.

You don't have to learn how to do taxes. Plug your w-2 into turbo tax and call it a day.
You can open bank accounts without ever walking into a bank.
You don't ever have to cook
Auto bill pay all your utilities and other bills.

Tech has made us more efficient but lazy when it comes to interactions. And not just interactions with strangers, but your own kids as well.

So many kids already have iPhones and iPads. Parents are glued to theirs.

Bro, everybody is sitting in the same living room as a family, but they aren't actually being a family. The living room just has the best wifi signal.

And bro, these kids have access to all information. I seen a kid in Marshall's literally call out his mom for telling him the wrong information after he checked on google to see if his mom was full of crap or not.

They out here spot checking their parents, bruh.

I was scared to ever correct my parents. But they were my parents. They taught me how to respect people and survive society.

But a lot of parents aren't doing that. Google is their parents.

Good for you. Remember that.

Imagine all the bad stuff that could be avoided if that really happened. (and I don't mean all bad stuff would be avoided, but man, a lot of it could be.) If parentS parented.

You are definitely confused. Go re read the first post. This has nothing to do with liberal/conservative. This has to do with school policies.