DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Gregg Williams part 2

ddubia,

See, what you said is how I read the quote the first time. In that context, I was a little uneasy but ok with it. I get it, he's trying to shock the players into a new culture and mindset. The negative, that I see is that it comes across as super douchey and obnoxious. That kinda brand of jerk gets old. You can be a hardnosed coach w/o being a jerk.

Then I read the quote again, and kinda changed my mind. He said, if you didn't play through that, I would've cut you. On the second read, that's only talking about the toughness of Haden, and not any sort of qualifier on his poor performance. Now, to me, it sounds like he wants at least that level of toughness on his defense.

I agree with mac.

I have played for both kinds. One was in your face making sure you did things right. Another was quiet making his point sitting you down whenever a mistake was made. Both coaches were effective. I can't say I had a preference.

It really boils down does coach have your best interest. Yelling to yell is simply a lot of hot air. On the flip-side, benching with no real purpose is simply someone trying to make himself important.

In short, yelling or not yelling doesn't matter much, what matters most is whether or not the players respect him.

If they do, then when he yells it will carry the appropriate weight.
If they don't, any thing he does will be a negative.

Seems to me that everywhere he's coached he was liked by the players, and they were effective defenses.

As will we.

j/c

It appears to me that no where in that article did it say that GW was cussing out Joe - or anyone else for that matter. The quote was Joe's stating that the team "needs" to be cussed-out / held-accountable.

Joe needs to shut his yapper and start delivering on his $$$..and I'm a Haden fan.

I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this question so I put it here:

Anyone have some insight as to why Nassib is so often talked about as playing inside in our 4-3? I would think that Ogbah would move inside when Nassib was in the game...or simply stay outside and be opposite Ogbah if Garrett isn't in the game or on the team.

I'd first like to know where Nassib is at weight wise. Unlike Mingo, I think he has the frame and metabolism to be able to pack on some muscle/non-lean weight and still be explosive.

I too have been wondering what we are going to do with Nassib/4-3/etc. Looking forward to the responses.

I kind of had the same question. Here are some quotes from an article I tracked down:



Link

That is from shortly after the draft, so it probably had something of 5tech and the 3-4 in mind, but possibly some of sub-packages, too.

Maybe we will see both Ogbah and Nassib inside some this year?

I'd expect to see him inside and outside, situationally. Williams likes to moves his guys around a lot.

This. He has the flexibility to do both. I prefer him to be outside. He will be a situational guy, or the first up when someone needs a breather.

This is as close to a subject I've wanted to talk about as this board has gotten. Interior D-line personnel.

I don't think we have enough guys for Gregg Williams to implement his scheme. Off the top of my head I identify Shelton, Meader, and Bryant if he's good to go. Lets add Nassib partime. The one guy I would absolutely draft is Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, Alabama. I think he will have a better pro career than he had as a collegiate. His punch and arm extension allow him to play on the offensive side of the ball regularly. He may not make the stop ( although he'is a very effective run defender) the penetration that he consistently creates will create gaps for other guys to make plays. I'd also use a late round pick on Grover Stewart from Albany State, a HBCU in Georgia. He's raw but his athleticism at 6'5" 300+ is intriguing.

Gregg Williams is turning around the Browns, one (bleeping) up-down at a time

The fiery, no-nonsense defensive coordinator's presence is already being felt in Cleveland
Jason La Canfora


BEREA, Ohio -- It took all of maybe a few days, barely a full OTA practice, before any member of the Cleveland Browns' defense could pick out the voice of their fiery, vocal, emphatic new coordinator above the din of anything else. Gregg Williams has a big mouth (he'd readily admit to as much), and is not afraid to use it, one of his primary daily weapons in his charge to finally fix this needy unit.

Williams, who spent the past few years reunited with longtime friend Jeff Fisher with the Rams, has made a colorful, and at times controversial, 26-year NFL career out of trying to quickly turn around long moribund defenses, and is embracing his biggest challenge yet. Changing the culture -- one of his favorite terms -- of the Cleveland Browns sadsack defense has eluded so many of his predecessors since the franchise came back into the league as an expansion franchise in 1999, and recent vintages of the unit have been particularly awful.
A brief review of the 2016 Cleveland Browns defense: 31st in offensive points allowed, 28th in negative yardage generated (a key metric with Williams), 32nd in second-down conversion, 30th in third-down defense, 29th in red-zone defense, 31st in rushing yards allowed per game, 31st in total rushes and receptions against, 31st in opposing passer rating, 30th in sacks, 30th in turnovers created (perhaps Williams' most coveted number of all). As a reminder -- there are only 32 teams in the National Football League.
And this was no blip. Over the past three seasons the Browns rank 31st in passing touchdowns allowed, 24th in rushing touchdowns allowed, 20th in opposing passer rating and dead last in rushing yards allowed per game (a staggering 137.6). That's enough to make the already boisterous and expletive-prone coach crank it up another notch, and he's been on his players in the meeting rooms and practice field since his first day on the job this offseason.

"He's got a very distinctive voice," said linebacker Christian Kirksey, a third-round pick in 2014 who has developed into an impact player and a building block on this side of the ball. "He could be 50 yards down the field and he just yells and you just feel it. It's like, 'OK, that's GW. That's Gregg.' Gregg is going to be Gregg. I'm pretty sure everybody knows him around the league by now.

"He is the first one to tell you he's not going to change. This is who he is and you've got to respect that. Guys are loving him. He is a high-energy guy and he's going to be the same person each and every day, and he's going to expect the best out of you each and every day and he is who he is."
Williams, a straight-shooting, no-BS Missourian, is keeping a low public profile in Cleveland and has not been made available to the media since his introductory press conference. I've known him and covered his defenses dating back to 2004, but this edict applied to me as well beyond friendly small talk.
I know this much: For as confident as Williams is in his abilities, he has to know beyond a doubt that this chore is greater than even those he took in the past when he was hired to overhaul struggling units in Tennessee or Buffalo or Washington or New Orleans, where he won a Super Bowl with an opportunistic, turnover-heavy Saints defense.

And his fundamental methods are unwavering, starting with a grueling series of up-downs before practices. He's willing to chew out everyone from the 90th man on the roster right up to his highest-paid player, and he demands a relentless tempo and swarming to the football in practice while encouraging players to do anything within reason to get their hands on the ball.
It's obviously still quite early in the process, with the Browns not even a week into camp yet, but the immediate returns have been resoundingly favorable. If any team cried out for a firebrand to kick them in the backside -- verbally or otherwise -- on a regular basis, it's the Browns.

"He is the perfect person to try to charge this defense up," Kirksey agreed, "and charge this team up. He's not only getting guys ready on defense, you can just feel his energy throughout the building. He demands greatness out of every single person in this building, and when you have a person like that it spreads to a number of people.

"So I think bringing Gregg in here, he has a way that he carries himself that challenges other people to challenge themselves in the same manner. I think he's the perfect guy for the job."

Williams, who was once banished from the NFL for a year as part of the NFL's heavy-handed and ill-fated "Bountygate" investigation into the Saints defense, made an initial impact on the group, showing a propensity for F-bombs and playing no favorites in his initial remarks to the team. He let them know his track record for getting poor defenses to make big strides in his first season in the building, and then went about provoking a physical transformation as well.
Potential Hall of Fame linebacker London Fletcher, a Cleveland native who follows the Browns closely and who played for Williams in Buffalo and Washington, believes this defense is in the right hands. Fletcher lauded Williams' ability to develop young players and call a game on defense -- Dick LeBeau is the only coach he's been around to do it better, Fletcher said -- and expects these players to quickly benefit from his arrival.
"He is a master motivator," Fletcher said. "Forget all that 'Bountygate' stuff, he doesn't need that to motivate guys, trust me. He has a very unique way, and a unique skill set, to get the best out of his players. Look at our Washington clubs. We had some good players but we achieved more than our talent probably determined because Gregg has a great way to get you to buy into and believe what he is selling."
That process seems to be occurring again in Cleveland.

"By the time I got here for the beginning of OTAs," said free agent defensive back Jason McCourty, who played for Williams in Tennessee in 2013, "I don't think I needed to tell anyone here anything about Gregg. I think from the first day of the offseason he made it pretty known. By the time I got here guys were already warning me, not knowing I was already with him for a year. The message was already across.

"And I think guys have responded well. I can tell just from the chatter that goes on in the locker room. It's not guys leaving from a meeting room getting chewed out saying, 'What the heck is this guy talking about?' It more or less like, 'He's getting after us this way, because of that.' And we know if we can correct these things, that's the only way it's going to allow us to become the defense we want to be."

Williams is relying on old tenets like padded up-downs (think burpies in full NFL equipment on a field under a blazing sun) to start and close some practices.

"My first day was OTA No. 1," McCourty said. "Forty up-downs. Welcome to the 2017 season. First day of training camp -- up-downs. Before we do anything on the practice field -- up-downs."

Some other highlights:

"Guys are violently trying to strip the ball at all times," tight end Seth DeValve said.
McCourty: "All the way from the individual period (at the start of practice), you have to be full speed. That's what I keep telling the young guys: Don't look lethargic, especially as a young guy. You better be flying around from the moment that horn blows in practice."


So, by the time the Browns put on the pads for the first time this summer, and put forth an inadequate showing lacking the passion and speed Williams demands, the coach didn't have to say much coming off the field. His player already knew the tongue-lashing that awaited them when they reviewed the tape with the coaches.
Williams can tend to get complex and exotic with his blitz schemes, and players readily admitted that they are still on a learning curve and not quite processing and reacting quickly enough. That should change over time. And Williams does inherit a core of young talent: linebackers Kirksey and former Super Bowl winner Jamie Collins, a potential quality run-stuffer in nose tackle Danny Shelton, and a possible jack-of-all-trades in Jabrill Peppers, who can play safety, linebacker and cover receivers in the slot. And, of course, an elite pass rushing talent in Myles Garrett, the first-overall pick in April.
The coordinator will scheme it up for them, particularly the rookies, and find ways to maximize what they can do right away, simplifying and streamlining. In Garrett's case, that could often boil down to: Go hunt the quarterback.
"See ball, get ball, that's fine with me," Garrett said, acknowledging he's trying to appease his coach by going "100 miles per hour" at practice as much as he can. "See ball, get ball. Force fumbles. Make plays."
As for the concerns about Garrett taking plays -- or games -- off in college and only bringing his full motor when he had to, Fletcher is confident those days are over.
"To me that's a non-concern, because I know Gregg is going to get that right out of him," said Fletcher, who watched lots of film on Garrett as an analyst for CBS Sports Network. "He's either going to quit football, or he's going to play to a level that he never even knew he was capable of playing to. Because Gregg won't play him if he's not giving him 110 percent. He doesn't care where you were drafted or how much money you're making."

This unit still has some significant questions in the secondary, and faces an uphill climb, but it will make strides under Williams, for sure. Perhaps greater than many suspect. Of course, the team may be downright miserable on offense again, as it has what might be the least-inspiring quarterback room in the team's history -- truly saying something by Browns standards -- and this building remains ripe for strife and turmoil, with many around the league bracing for more fireworks between the coaching side and personnel side as this arduous rebuild slogs on. Never discount the quick trigger figure of owner Jimmy Haslam.

It's as difficult as a backdrop as there is in the NFL, to be sure, but one could also say that there's no (bleeping-bleeping) place to go but up for the Cleveland Browns defense, and Williams is never one to shrink from a (blankety-blank) challenge.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/gregg...down-at-a-time/

I thought that Jason La Canfora was a hack that hated the Browns and couldn't be trusted?

Are you expecting a snarky response back?

He is. He got his dig in at the end.

It was likely payback for Haslam's "I don't read anything from that reporter" comment last year.

Past history has shown Williams doesn't stay in one NFL city for too long at all.

I really don't care either way.

I just find it quite funny how people hate a reporter when they say negative things about the Browns then they're suddenly relevant when they say nice things.

I did want to thank you for posting all the Training Camp articles Pdawg.

I'll be honest. Normally, I can tell (w/o reading the name) which are his articles within the first paragraph or two. That one, I had to look at the name after it was pointed out he was the author.

While I'm not dogging my team, in all honesty we have produced putrid results on the field. It just seems that some fans don't like it when reporters point that out. It causes disdain for those who report it. However, I do agree that he has piled on at times.

I think you may very well have a valid point about his relationship with Lombardi. Believe me, when it was announced Lombardi was coming back to Cleveland I loathed the thought of it. As much as I advocate continuity if we see even modest improvement, if I was happy to see one regime ran out of town quickly, it was that one.

You're welcome. I post articles from anyone that I can find except for from the Browns' reporters. I try and stay away from the trashing of reporters.

The craziest thing is that the dude was spot on w/some of articles on the Browns, such as the dysfunction between Pet and Farmer, his take on what happened w/Shanny, the too many chefs in the kitchen article.

LOL........remember the outrage over those articles?

I remember the outrage. My point to Pit was I wasn't one of the guys calling him a hack. At least I'm pretty sure I didn't because I've hardly posted my opinions on things for years.

I know PDawg. I wasn't saying you were. You're a good poster.

I was just agreeing w/Pit about how some people view JLC. And I don't think Pit was calling you out specifically. I think his original comment was just a general statement and had nothing to do w/you.

It's cool, bro.

Pretty good insight into Gregg Williams defense:

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/8/19/...velands-defense

Loved the pure pass rush DL w/ Ogbah and Garrett reduced in at DT and Collins and Schobert at the DEs

they used that DL when Schobert and Ogbah did a T&E stunt that got Schobert a sack

If Schobert's going to be good, then they have to be creative with ways to get him on the field. That is one way to do it. It works because Collins is so versatile and is a pretty good pass rusher (especially while blitzing).

if Schobert ends up being a good player, our defense will be very good IMO. Collins, Schobert and Kirksey in the middle ... Peppers versatility .. Garrett/Ogbah/Shelton ... solid DL depth. Gotta get a CB to rely on

I think that our DL did not get sufficient pressure and we had to rely on too many blitzes in a freaking preseason game to pressure the qb.

Having a secondary that has guys that are either green, slow, or both..........and blitzing so much will almost certainly lead to big plays over the top.

You know.............kinda like how the Ram's D got torched last year.

Williams 4-3 is putting in work so far.

Loved seeing that blitz on 4th down to seal the game. No way would we have blitzed like that with anyone else we've had as a defensive coordinator.

Williams doesnt' let the offense dictate how he runs his defense. I like that. It can definitely shoot you in the foot and hurt if there is a lack of execution, but hopefully we execute more than we don't.

Gregg Williams blitzes. It's what he does. I know there were frequent complaints among Rams fans that he blitzed too much when he had Robert Quinn and Aaron Donald.

He's done a good job thus far instilling a mentality that carries over to the field.
Granted it does help to have Garrett and Peppers but Gregg has the D looking better then last year.

Preseaon matters when it comes to evaluating "teams."

Have not seen the games but encouraged to read about some attitude on defense and a good defensive game plan being called.

It really all depends on how this transfers to the regular season... but I'd bank on Williams only showing vanilla D and vanilla blitzes. More exotic blitz packages will be held back...but if blitzes make up a significant portion of calls on GameDay then it's important to practice while they can.

You live by the blitz and you die by the blitz. A lot of that depends on the secondary.

This D has the most aggressive attitude I have seen since 2002 only better ... JMHO

I was also comparing them to 2002 earlier today with a buddy except this team has 10x the talent and are way younger. I'm excited!

...and isn't putting us in Cap Hell forcing us to blow it all up next year.