DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cuts Continued....

Bolded & underlined for a different point of view.

Why this franchise loves failed Seahawks olinemen is beyond me.

We take Seattle's o-linemen like Denver takes our d-linemen haha...

You always seem to find a way to bring up your displeasure with the FO don't you.

Getting old

a random name popped into my head this morning ... Bob Hallen. That was a strange situation.

/randomness

Wow,, is that the guy we picked up to replace the injured LeCharles Bentley? Then he turned around and retired and we got the guy from Philly who's name escapes me at the moment. Do I have that right?

U talking about Hank Fraley? Dude was so overrated. Never understood why so many people on this board loved him.

Since you have no idea what the offer was AFTER the Browns decided to pull the original offer, how can you say this? And who would want to stay with a team who refused to honor the deal?

I think a few things need to be set down on this. First: Sashi has already said that the offer WAS NOT PULLED. The offer expired because MS and his agent refused to honor it. So lets get that cleared up. To keep wanting to put blame on this is just dumb. MS left because his agent gambled and they lost...END OF STORY

I don't believe that at all. All of the reports I saw said the offer was good until the beginning of the signing period. The NFL allows agents to take offers a few days before that. His agent went out and tested the waters in those few days and Schwartz was back in time to sign the offer before the free agent signing period began. The offer was pulled.

Browns' Sashi Brown says 'no offer pulled' for Mitchell Schwartz

BOCA RATON, Fla. -- Browns Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown denied a report that he yanked his offer for right tackle Mitchell Schwartz.

"No offer pulled,'' he said at at the NFL Annual Meeting here Monday morning.
But when Gilmore went back, the original deal was no longer there. The Browns thought Schwartz was gone when he didn't engage with the original offer, and moved on.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/03/browns_sashi_brown_mitchell_sc.html

... Is the same point you've been making for over a year now. I don't think I'm exaggerating if I say you've made that same point at least 100 times during that period. That's less than 10 times a month and I'm sure it's been more than that.

Who the hell has to repeat something that many times to satisfy themselves that they've made their point?

And look how damaging it is to keep this up. Read the posts immediately following yours. The conversation has gone from the thread topic of "Cuts" into a discussion about Swartz and that whole deal. Everyone who is responding to it is saying the same thing they've already said a dozen times before. Too many threads get disrupted by the MS thing that you keep bringing up.

I love you mac, like a brother. You were here when I arrived 15 years ago. That's 15 Cleveland Browns seasons of dialog, deliberation and debate. You know a lot about football. You make a lot of good points. It's just that sometimes you make the same point over and over until nobody wants to hear it from you again. You can't possibly think that we didn't hear you the 1st time, or the 6th time, or the 35th time, or the 73rd time, or the 99th time, so you feel compelled to say it again just in case we missed it.

C'mon man. It's old news. The FO screwed up letting MS get away. We all know that, well, except for the ass-kissers, but it's long over. I'll bet the FO has kicked themselves in the ass for it a few times. But I'll bet they aren't kicking themselves now because there comes a time when one simply must move on. I know they're "Harvard Boys" and that makes them a tough act to follow but if they can do it so can you, move on.

So if people don't agree with your assessment they are ass-kissers?

What is my assessment?

None of us participated in MS bargaining meetings, Sashi stated no offers pulled- he might be doing the lawyer thing- definition of is is difficult- BUT I don't think FO did anything wrong in this case- MS wanted out of Cleveland just like Mack- opinions, we all have one......GO Browns!!!!

The FO screwed up letting MS get away

The agent (who is employed by Mitchell Schwartz).

Everyone screwed up. Schwartz should still be on the team and he is not.

I wish the Browns would have come out of the gate and offered more $$$ than any other team...wait...maybe it's not about the $$$.

Yes the boys as in the agent and Mitchell Schwartz.

Oh that. I don't blame it ALL on them. I feel it's obvious both sides played a big part in those negotiations crumbling down. But just as it takes two to tango, the FO had their part in it. Their part was to retain the player. Whatever happened to make that an unsuccessful goal, the FO has to own their part in it. So yes, they screwed up. Maybe only a part of it but nonetheless they screwed up.

Furthermore, someone is not an ass-kisser simply because they disagree with my opinion. They become an ass-kisser by habitually defending one side over the other in a course of instances. I did not say you are an ass-kisser. You brought it up. Was feeling like an ass-kisser the reason you responded to that comment? ... as in, oh jeez, he must be talking about me. lol

Are we really STILL talking about Schwartz, Mack, Gipson and Benji? I mean....life moves on and it moves forward. It is what it is. Get over it.

It's been re-hashed in the majority of thread titles on various subjects. It keeps being brought up over and over. It's one of those subjects that lures people into the discussion every time.

Not only has mac stated his opinion over and over but those who argue with him have nothing new to offer either. They simply re-state their opinions over and over with each opportunity.

I know it would be stepping on the idea of free speech but I'd like to see bringing up the name of Mitchell Schwartz banned in the rules. After a year it is getting sickening.

Regarding the Mitchell Schwartz issue Mac...

I am kinda sad to see Tracy Howard go. The Jags have him now, but he seemed like a good project.

But just as it takes two to tango, the agent and Mitchell Schwartz had their part in it. Their part was to get the best contract offered. Whatever happened to make that an unsuccessful goal, the agent and Mitchell Schwartz has to own their part in it. So yes, they screwed up. Maybe only a part of it but nonetheless they screwed up.

As to the ass-kisser comment, I just didn't see the need to use childish name calling in an adult debate. In general people who feel the need to do that are at the ones losing the debate so they name call to distract from the topic.

It's not name calling unless it's directed at you. And what debate I was losing are you talking about? I was conversing with mac. I never included you. You heard "ass-kisser" and your head popped up.

The FO might have moved on with Schwartz and Prior before the players actually sealed the deal elsewhere and while they were coming back for another bite at the apple here in Cleveland. The thought that the negotiations were ongoing when the Browns decided to cut bait and move on prematurely (especially on these two players) is troubling.

On the other hand, expecting a degree of loyalty when offering a fair market contract to a player and limiting the amount of time you are willing to wait for a response to your offer is actually smart business for the future. Being needy and acting like the awkward kid being picked last for the teams every time creates a stigma that players consider when deciding to sign here. I prefer not to have that stigma and to sign players that want to be here over other destinations.

I know it's a business and players want to get paid, but money is not the primary driving force when players sign with contending teams. So we shouldn't allow ourselves to be treated any differently than those teams would be by potential players.

At the end of the day, I think we as fans should have the same class that Sashi and company are displaying (right or wrong) and move on rather than be embarrassed by players seeking every possible alternative situation, chasing every penny, and that don't seem to want to be with us anyway. We should be very decisive when it's time to end the negotiation so players take us more seriously, imho.

Very often when a team that has defined failure such as the Browns
Have since 1999 alot of discussion is aimed toward more so the past
Than the immediate present
In this case the departures of Mack Schwartz are still talked about at length one year later
It comes down to those 2 didn't want to endure another season 3 13 or worse
Teams that win the discussion is based around the present
I'm sure Patriot fans arent losing sleep over Logan Mankins or Shane Vereen
Nobody is crying over Markus Wheaton going to the Bears in Pittsburgh
Yet somehow when players or coaches leave the Browns they are still discussed months after the fact..
We are talking more about Mack and Schwartz leaving then they are talking about the Browns
If the Browns ever win the obsession of players departures will lessen

I like how we have a specific thread to talk about "everything Front Office related" and yet here we are in the cuts thread.. talking about Mitchell Schwartz.

If he wanted out of Cleveland, why did he come back to sign the deal before the FA signing period opened?

I went to wikipedia to recall the situation. So many centers before the season even started.

"On July 27, the first day of the Cleveland Browns' training camp, free-agent center LeCharles Bentley suffered a season-ending knee injury during the first contact play of camp. Bentley was quoted as saying, "No one touched me. It was a freak thing. I took two steps, felt the injury and that was it. It felt like someone had kicked me." Bentley also said that he's "[...] never been a patient person", and that "[...] [l]earning to adjust my body and my limitations is going to be a difficult challenge. When it's all said and done, it's going to make me better." Bentley was expected to help protect second-year quarterback Charlie Frye.

After news of Bentley's injuring, back-up center Bob Hallen left training camp, leaving the team without a center. On July 30, the Browns signed veteran center Todd Washington. On August 7, Washington announced his retirement. On August 12, Hallen announced his retirement, citing two herniated discs and stenosis as the reason for his retirement. The Browns faced even more problems when third-string center Alonzo Ephraim, who was signed following Bentley's injury, was suspended for substance abuse. August 17 saw the Browns center woes disparaging slightly, as they acquired Ross Tucker from the Patriots. On August 24, the Browns acquired center Lennie Friedman from the Chicago Bears for a conditional 2007 draft choice. On September 2, the Browns finally found what they had been looking for when they traded a conditional 2008 draft choice to the Philadelphia Eagles for center Hank Fraley. Upon signing Fraley, Ross Tucker's contract was terminated."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Cleveland_Browns_season

Why did he leave to begin with, less money?