DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

If it is ok with the board moderators...With day two of the 2017 draft coming up and the old Front Office thread 10 pages long, this might be a good point to continue the discussion in a new thread.

Below is a recent article discussing the QB options...


Rumors: Browns still looking to trade for a veteran QB

by Thomas Moore1 hour ago
link

The Cleveland Browns have reportedly been busy calling around the league looking for a veteran quarterback to bring on board.

The Cleveland Browns on numerous opportunities to fix the ongoing quarterback issue during the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft.

That may have been because they were busy calling other teams about their backup quarterbacks.

According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter and NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport, the Browns were reportedly working the phones to see about the availability of New England Patriots backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo and Cincinnati Bengals quarterback A.J. McCarron

Adam Schefter ✔@AdamSchefter
Browns inquired last night about trading for Patriots' QB Jimmy Garappolo and were told, once again, NE not interested, per sources.
1:29 PM - 28 Apr 2017

Ian Rapoport ✔@RapSheet
#Browns & #Bengals touched base regarding a potential trade for QB AJ McCarron. Doesn’t sound like they’ve gotten too far. Price is high.
2:24 PM - 28 Apr 2017

The rumored interest in Garoppolo is certainly not new as media reports have speculated for months that the Browns would of course be interested in the latest Patriots backup quarterback destined to be the league’s next great quarterback.

The McCarron interest, while newer, has been floated out there before, primarily because McCarron is familiar with head coach Hue Jackson’s offense after spending the 2015 season together in Cincinnati.

While the idea of acquiring either Garoppolo or McCarron has its downside, which we will get to in a moment, the notion that the Browns are calling around the league fits in with what executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown said during his Thursday night press conference, according to the team’s website:

“Yeah, we need to solidify the quarterback position. It’s not solidified right now. We know that we need the guys here to work their tails off, and Hue is going to develop them as much as possible and push them to be their best. We also know that until we get it solidified, we are going to continue looking for players all over the league and in college. That may be in next year’s draft. That may be in free agency. It may be via trade. We won’t rest until really solidify that position, but again (QBs) Brock (Osweiler), Cody (Kessler), Kevin (Hogan) are here working hard and we’re going to support them as best as we can.”
Not exactly a huge vote of confidence for the players currently occupying the quarterback room in Berea.

Even knowing that, there is little appeal to seeing Garoppolo or McCarron in Orange and Brown.

We’ve been over it repeatedly with Garoppolo: if he is really anything more than a backup quarterback, then the Patriots would have no intention of trading him. They need all the protection they can get in case Tom Brady, who will turn 40 before the start of the 2017 season, gets injured.

Plus, the Chicago Bears, Kansas City Chiefs and Houston Texans all paid large prices to select quarterbacks in the first round of the draft; why is it that none of them were swinging a deal for Garoppolo?

As for McCarron, well, take a look at this from Pro Football Focus and then come back to us about why the Browns should be pursuing him:

A.J. McCarron’s career is 341 snaps old as backup to Bengals starter Andy Dalton. Over that span, he has graded out below average for Pro Football Focus (72.6), and he took just two snaps in the 2016 season, but he did have a two-game stretch a year ago where he looked good, beating up on the 49ers and (more impressively) holding his own against one of the greatest defenses in NFL history, the Denver Broncos, a week later. His problem is that—unlike Garoppolo—he had the opportunity to put bad play on tape as well, so even though he has more NFL experience than the Patriots’ backup, and has shown at least as much positive play, he has tarnished that upside with the threat of the bad that he could produce.
There is also the problem that Bengals owner Mike Brown still holds a grudge for Cleveland firing his father, Hall of Fame head coach Paul Brown, and has never made a trade with Cleveland. If the Browns are interested in a Cincinnati player, let’s just say that the likely of Mike Brown being reasonable is … questionable.

It’s a positive sign that Brown and Jackson realize the current quarterback situation is not ideal and that they continue to work to try to fix it.

There just have to be better options out there than Garoppolo and McCarron.

The bottom line is there is 2 kind of teams i n the NFL.

1) Teams with Franchise QB's

2) Team's without Franchise QB's.

The Browns are the later. Until they find one they need to attempt to uncover every stone. Why did they not draft Wentz last year? Why did they not draft Trubisky last night? Easy answer is Wentz and Trubisky during the drafts were too much of a gamble. A Division 2 QB and another with only 13 starts.

For FO/coaching staffs. The only thing worse than not having a QB is putting all of your eggs on the wrong QB.

And the wheels keep turning.

so when the gm said he did not think he would still be there....

you dont call that falling into his lap?

I call it a press conference where people say things to the media that, often times, means nothing.

You see the problem with your poo colored spectacles?

If Belichick sits tight or trades back and lets players fall to him .... he's a genius. When it happens to Lynch in his first draft he is lauded.

When the Harvard Boys do the same thing - it's blind luck and fortune through incompetence.

Osweiler's contract is guaranteed for this year. So need reason to cut him. We would be paying him anyway.

A trade? The only hope of trading him is for us to agree to pick up a portion of his contract. I would guess trade conversations wouldn't start until we agreed to pick up half. Then, I think, we would need to cover more to get anything worthwhile in return.

I think if there is a trade it will be after the season starts and if a play-off ready team has a starting QB goes down. Like the Vikings last year ... no-one is going to give up what the Vikings did to get Osweiler - but he might be worth a 2, 3 or a 4 if the Browns eat 1/2 his contract.

While I agree Osweiler is the most logical bridge QB, I would think there might be some interest from Denver in getting him back. They tried to keep him as a FA, but Houston blew their offer away, IIRC. Now, with Trevor Siemian recovering from surgery on his non-throwing shoulder that was more serious than expected, you'd think something could be worked out. Siemian's injury turned out to be a Grade 5 separation, with torn ligaments at the AC joint and clavicle. The recovery is 5-6 months, but shoulders can be problematical. Guys I know with bad shoulders routinely deal with it popping out of joint, and none of them have 300-pounders landing on them 2-3 times a game.

http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-b...-otas/416278005

So that puts you on record as saying the FO has finally addressed the QB issue...there goes 50% of your posting material/drivel...thank goodness.

The issue is that if he gets hurt playing for us THIS year we will be on the hook to pay him NEXT year as well...it's not as easy as it looks.

But he fell in our lap, so technically, it doest count.

Browns Play It Smart:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/29/nfl-draft-cleveland-browns-deshone-kizer

LOL.

That was great.

Unfortunately we don't have Belicheck calling the shots,who with foresight and patience waited until the 6th round to draft the GOAT.

Obviously you don't have a clue.

We took him when we took him. Go suck on a banana.

Memphis, sorry I had gotten a chance to respond to this.

My initial thoughts on the draft are I don't like it. The reasons why are:

--This team spent years collecting draft capital, and I don't feel like they maximized it. You have the 1 and 12 picks. The top ten goes nothing like you think it will, and you have a chance to snag a top positional guy at 12. So you can get two guys at the top of their position at picks 1 and 12. The Browns trade down. I believe in quality over quantity. I think this notion that the Browns operate under - quantity gives you a better chance to hit on picks - is fine for later rounds. There are maybe 2-8 slam dunks in every draft. They had a chance to land 2. And squandered it.

--It was reported in some areas that Hue was a big fan of Mahomes. You and I have seen some of those same reports. I think he was 100% on board with getting Garrett. But why accumulate all of that draft capital if you aren't going to use it. That's why we got it. So you can make a move on guys. Between this and the first bullet point, I think the Browns missed two opportunities - one to sit back and take BPA and the other is to make a move to get the guy that their coach wanted. The fact that Reid moved up for him I think says a lot.

--Sashi admitted to "biting his nails" after trading down hoping a player they still wanted at 25 was there. Why? To secure an additional first that's likely to be in the 20s next year. This team needs difference makers, not bodies. And I have a newsflash for the Browns FO and the fans in general...if you ain't drafting #1 overall, there is no amount of compensation that will discourage the team that is in that spot from taking the next great thing at QB. Now, Sashi conceded they are not stockpiling picks in hopes of using them on a QB. In general, they like to possess the currency for whatever may pop it. I get that. But I still don't understand the trade down.

--I'm undecided about Kizer. Did they take a QB there just because they hadn't drafted a QB yet? Or was he the best player on their board? They said they wouldn't force the QB position. It kind of feels like they did. Sounds like the kid needs a ton of work.

This is just one guy's opinion. I'm pretty unexcited in general. But that's likely due to many years of just being beaten down by this team. I want to like Hue and Sashi. I really do. Hue's personality is contagious. If he could get the talent, I think the guys will play for him. And Sashi comes across as very intelligent and composed. But there was a lot of build up for this draft. This has basically been in the making for 2 years. Does it feel like that 2 year preparation paid off? It just feels like another draft with a lot of question marks to me.

I agree with your first point on staying pat at #12. I would have taken Hooker - not sure if there is a medical concern there - but Allen was equally viable. I end up liking the Peppers pick, but it's no means a slam dunk. The glaring difference is that these guys are very very different players and maybe that energy and attacking play at the LOS is what they feel they need?

I disagree with moving up for Mahomes - I liked him, its not that - it's trading up a lot for an unproven guy. He might be the guy you like best in the draft - but if it takes you a lot of draft collateral to move up to take him .... that's a different set of circumstances. I'm happy to take Kizer at 52 than to move up and take Mahomes at 10 and give what might be a 2nd round pick (or more) to get there.

I think the nail biting comment is a bit of media play .... I have to believe they have a few guys with a similar grade that they would have been happy with. I don't believe it's quite as risky as you painted. And I don't think the Kizer pick was forced. jmo

I like the draft overall.... but there is definitely some feeling of deflation as pre-draft my dream scenario was Garrett and Hooker ... and we could have had that and passed.

This PR. Talk cracks me up .. He FELL to US because no one else wanted him ! That seems fairly simple .

Not so much no one wanted him .. it is more teams have different needs. 3 QBs were gone. Other teams had more immediate needs than QB.

Maybe the script has flipped. Hopefully your lack of excitement is a portent of good things to come... you know, as opposed to getting excited every year only to be crushed. We can only hope.

Every player that falls in the draft does so because no one else "wanted him". Actually,it's more true that other teams had different needs, which left the QB available for us, so we took him when the cost was reasonable. That's what good teams do.

I agree, but Mac twists it that we lucked out and it was nothing that we did to get him.

It's either we lucked out or we screwed up. I am sick of it.

I will.say this about the front office
They drafted alot of great athletes that are hybrids of sorts
Past GMS like Farmer and Mangini put together rosters that were slow and void of athletic talent among the worst in the North and NFL.

I assumed Waterdawg was being sarcastic ???

You make some good points, but I liked the draft. There are many saying what you are about Hooker and Allen being there at #12. I wanted Hooker bad myself. BUT...Both of these guys dropped for a reason. If fact alot of these so called top 10 guys dropped. I guess the FO thought the chance for a #1 next year was just to great to pass up. We got some great guys in the first two rounds, and it looks good on a couple of later round guys too. GO BROWNS

I liked hooker but we don't know the medical status. Additionally, it looks like we want our defense to be made up of a bunch of tough guys. Hooker is fast and a play maker but definitely not tough and not going to be an attribute in the run game.

Having said that, If Hooker's medical was clean I would not have made that trade.

A torn labrum needs to be dealt with immediately, or else you have instability and progressive joint degeneration leading to oseoarthritis. A lot depends on how long Hooker was playing with the torn labrum.

I am disappointed w/our draft. I had such high hopes before the draft and after we took Garrett.

It seems like we took the All Airport Team and didn't take football players. We passed on so many good players for guys with that dreaded label........."potential." I forget who said it, but I agree w/the quote by the coach who said something like potential is just a word that means you ain't done nothing yet.

Hopefully, I'm wrong and these guys will be studs.

Meanwhile in Buffalo:



https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/858482659546324996

We might be in front of the Bears and Bills in terms of messiness right now.

In that case .. I apologize. Too much tile dust from having my shower fixed. lol

It says that they had rated several guys who they would be happy with at that spot...it says that they didn't expect Kizer to be there because they thought him so valuable that he'd be gone by then...it says that they did their homework on all of those options including Kizer...it says that they created a plan/strategy and STUCK TO IT.

I was not a fan of Kizer, but he's young and talented and Hue WILL create a culture for him to boom...even though he may bust. The plan may bust too...but they CLEARLY have a plan and are sticking to it.

It's hard to get so much irony into one continuously themed thread.

Last year Dallas were GENIUSES for taking Dak in the FOURTH ROUND. Last year Dak didn't FALL to Dallas in the 4th ... it was all about Dallas being BRILLIANT.

This year Sashi says before the draft it's important not to reach for a QB and overplay the position because of perceived need.... they stick to their plan and the clear inference is that they are a bunch of idiots without a plan who clearly lucked into a player at #52. Shoot perhaps they had never even heard of Kizer and it was only Mel or Mayock that alerted the Browns FO to a QB that might be worth a shot being on the board.

When it's the Browns it's obviously a case of a blind squirrel being correct twice a day

To the reports of the "tension" being there, I'd like to point out in the draft wrapup presser, that Sashi was cracking a joke towards Paul. "Paul is a bit more weird" or something like that.

You don't joke in that nature if there's tension or bad blood of any sort amongst them. They look actually like they enjoy one another and are somewhat on the same page/same cohesive unit.

I think our "incompetent" front office landed at least four players who will be day one starters. Garrett, peppers, Njoku and the d tackle Brantley, who will hopefully be cleared of any wrongdoing. If he is not cleared, the d tackle we took in round 2 may well be a starter.
I would have preferred to stay at 12 and take Allen or hooker, but that does not change my overall evaluation of the draft.

cap, it is either that or the clock finding an acorn.