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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...e-not-done-yet/Browns got nine players for Carson Wentz, and they’re not done yet The haul of players the Browns have acquired with picks they got from Philadelphia in last year’s Carson Wentz trade is extraordinary, and it hasn’t even ended yet. Cleveland sent the second overall pick in the 2016 NFL draft (along with a 2017 fourth-round pick) to the Eagles in exchange for Philadelphia’s first-round, third-round, and fourth-round picks in last year’s draft, Philadelphia’s first-round pick in this year’s Draft and Philadelphia’s second-round pick in next year’s NFL Draft. With Philadelphia’s 2016 first-round pick, Cleveland traded down again and got Tennessee’s first-round pick and third-round pick, as well as Tennessee’s 2017 second-round pick. With Tennessee’s first-round pick, Cleveland chose receiver Corey Coleman. With Tennessee’s third-round pick, Cleveland chose offensive tackle Shon Coleman. With Tennessee’s 2017 second-round pick, Cleveland chose quarterback DeShone Kizer. Cleveland packaged Philadelphia’s 2016 third-round pick and a fifth-round pick and traded them to Carolina for the Panthers’ 2016 third-, fourth- and fifth-round picks. With the third-round pick, Cleveland chose quarterback Cody Kessler. With the fourth-round pick, Cleveland chose safety Derrick Kindred. With the fifth-round pick, Cleveland chose offensive tackle Spencer Drango. Cleveland sent Philadelphia’s 2016 fourth-round pick to Oakland for the Raiders’ fourth- and fifth-round picks. With the fourth-round pick, the Browns chose receiver Ricardo Louis. With the fifth-round pick, the Browns chose receiver Jordan Payton. Cleveland sent Philadelphia’s 2017 first-round pick to Houston for the Texans’ first-round picks this year and next year. With the Texans’ first-round pick, the Browns selected safety Jabrill Peppers. So the Browns now have nine players — Corey Coleman, Shon Coleman, DeShone Kizer, Cody Kessler, Derrick Kindred, Spencer Drango, Ricardo Louis, Jordan Payton, Jabrill Peppers — as well as the Texans’ first-round pick next year and the Eagles’ second-round pick next year, all for trading the opportunity to choose Wentz. That’s an incredible haul. Also incredible is the possibility that Wentz will turn into a franchise quarterback, the Browns won’t find one, and Cleveland fans will be left wishing the Browns hadn’t made that trade.
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The comments under the article are almost universal in their mockery of the Browns.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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The comments under the article are almost universal in their mockery of the Browns. People don't know to do anything else. We have basically been terrible for two decades.
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My favorite is the guy who blames our current FO for all of our terrible records and draft picks over the passed 5-6 years.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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This is simple. These 9 players and the few they get next year get the Browns back to winning the AFC North, in the playoffs, or hopefully a super bowl in the next 5 years then the trade of 2016 #2 pick (Carson Wentz) will be seen as a huge win for the organization. Until then everything the Browns do will continue to get mocked.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
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My biggest takeaway was although there is a lot of promise in that list of names, there isn't anything a year later that we can point to and say we won the trade yet.
But I smile thinking about turning those two #1's next year into Sam Darnold.
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Thwts crazy to think about... All that for wentz.... I liked the kid but don't know if we had a good enough team to take him and let him grow.... Hopefully kiser will be our future....
<><
#gmstrong
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LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Right now its still 50/50 to whether or not Wentz is gonna be blake Bortles or Derek Carr. He started out on fire but man he sucked for most of the year then got hot at the end again which is a good sign for him going forward.
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I think with Wentz we win at least two games last year and then don't get Myles. And that thought makes me sad.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think with Wentz we win at least two games last year and then don't get Myles. And that thought makes me sad. That might be an interesting thread. Who would you have taken in this draft if we had drafted Wentz last year and ended up with the 2nd pick. Remembering we wouldn't have had pick #12 this year. And we wouldn't have either Coleman. Or pick #52 Not interesting enough for me to start it though
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
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at #2 it would have been either Trubisky if we thought he was THE GUY or Adams safety. I would only HOPE that we would not take Thomas, I thought he was the most over rated top pick in this draft.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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at #2 it would have been either Trubisky if we thought he was THE GUY or Adams safety. I would only HOPE that we would not take Thomas, I thought he was the most over rated top pick in this draft.
jmho Hey EO, I would hope we wouldn't take Trubisky if we had Wentz..  In that scenario I would probably have taken Adams Again, I don't think anything can be determined about winners or loser in a trade until probably next year at the earliest and its also possible both end up winners. I don't think you can base how a QBs career will go after 1 year...
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at #2 it would have been either Trubisky if we thought he was THE GUY or Adams safety. I would only HOPE that we would not take Thomas, I thought he was the most over rated top pick in this draft.
jmho Hey EO, I would hope we wouldn't take Trubisky if we had Wentz.. In that scenario I would probably have taken Adams Again, I don't think anything can be determined about winners or loser in a trade until probably next year at the earliest and its also possible both end up winners. I don't think you can base how a QBs career will go after 1 year...
Ummm duh...lol  thanks yeah totally forgot that part of the Scenario, thanks 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...e-not-done-yet/Browns got nine players for Carson Wentz, and they’re not done yet The haul of players the Browns have acquired with picks they got from Philadelphia in last year’s Carson Wentz trade is extraordinary, and it hasn’t even ended yet. Cleveland sent the second overall pick in the 2016 NFL draft (along with a 2017 fourth-round pick) to the Eagles in exchange for Philadelphia’s first-round, third-round, and fourth-round picks in last year’s draft, Philadelphia’s first-round pick in this year’s Draft and Philadelphia’s second-round pick in next year’s NFL Draft. With Philadelphia’s 2016 first-round pick, Cleveland traded down again and got Tennessee’s first-round pick and third-round pick, as well as Tennessee’s 2017 second-round pick. With Tennessee’s first-round pick, Cleveland chose receiver Corey Coleman. With Tennessee’s third-round pick, Cleveland chose offensive tackle Shon Coleman. With Tennessee’s 2017 second-round pick, Cleveland chose quarterback DeShone Kizer. Cleveland packaged Philadelphia’s 2016 third-round pick and a fifth-round pick and traded them to Carolina for the Panthers’ 2016 third-, fourth- and fifth-round picks. With the third-round pick, Cleveland chose quarterback Cody Kessler. With the fourth-round pick, Cleveland chose safety Derrick Kindred. With the fifth-round pick, Cleveland chose offensive tackle Spencer Drango. Cleveland sent Philadelphia’s 2016 fourth-round pick to Oakland for the Raiders’ fourth- and fifth-round picks. With the fourth-round pick, the Browns chose receiver Ricardo Louis. With the fifth-round pick, the Browns chose receiver Jordan Payton. Cleveland sent Philadelphia’s 2017 first-round pick to Houston for the Texans’ first-round picks this year and next year. With the Texans’ first-round pick, the Browns selected safety Jabrill Peppers. So the Browns now have nine players — Corey Coleman, Shon Coleman, DeShone Kizer, Cody Kessler, Derrick Kindred, Spencer Drango, Ricardo Louis, Jordan Payton, Jabrill Peppers — as well as the Texans’ first-round pick next year and the Eagles’ second-round pick next year, all for trading the opportunity to choose Wentz. That’s an incredible haul. Also incredible is the possibility that Wentz will turn into a franchise quarterback, the Browns won’t find one, and Cleveland fans will be left wishing the Browns hadn’t made that trade. If Wentz matures into a Rodgers, pro-bowl, top 5 QB in the NFL the Browns will have lost the trade no matter what happens. Those guys are just in a class alone. If Wentz is Dalton or a top 15 QB in the NFL... maybe we come out on top if our picks work out and become legit starters at multiple positions. Looking at the 2015 roster and knowing how much was needed - I think that today with an unknown outcome still in the balance - it would be hard for a the Browns not to make the same choices. I am sure some are already to anoint Wentz and would take him.... not me. As someone else mentioned - a by product of the Wentz trade is also getting Garrett this year as a consequence. That is potentially significant if he is a generational talent as most hope/believe he will be.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I believe we can look as this being a positive no matter how Wentz turns out. If he becomes a top 5 QB talent and we turned him into 10 or 11 players and was the foundation that gets the Browns back to their feet for the foreseeable future noone loses.
We can beat this horse to death with all the woulda coulda shoulda's but the fact is we have been drafting QB's in the first round for years only to put them on teams being held together with duct tape. Finally we have a front office that seems to be targeting aspects of the team to solidify and reevaluate then go to the next issue.
So for me no matter how Wentz does in his future I am more than comfortable with all the players we inevitably acquired due to not picking him. My only stipulation to this opinion is however that in the course of him becoming a great QB we get up off our knees and can look back and say that trade made it happen.
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Until you see Kizer be as good or better than Wentz.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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I believe we can look as this being a positive no matter how Wentz turns out. If he becomes a top 5 QB talent and we turned him into 10 or 11 players and was the foundation that gets the Browns back to their feet for the foreseeable future noone loses.
We can beat this horse to death with all the woulda coulda shoulda's but the fact is we have been drafting QB's in the first round for years only to put them on teams being held together with duct tape. Finally we have a front office that seems to be targeting aspects of the team to solidify and reevaluate then go to the next issue.
So for me no matter how Wentz does in his future I am more than comfortable with all the players we inevitably acquired due to not picking him. My only stipulation to this opinion is however that in the course of him becoming a great QB we get up off our knees and can look back and say that trade made it happen. Problem is that the players we got on the trade are far from being foundation players....
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Until you see Kizer be as good or better than Wentz. I agree. It is also interesting that people complained about Cody not throwing it long. Comparing him to Wentz, Cody had a higher yards per completion then did Wentz. A much higher QB rating as well.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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The comments under the article are almost universal in their mockery of the Browns. People don't know to do anything else. We have basically been terrible for two decades. It hurts, but it's true. We've given everyone in the league reason to laugh at us pretty much since 1999. We had a couple of bright spots, but generally, we've earned the laughing stock title. It will stop when we start winning.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How can you tell? We haven't even picked them all yet.
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It's premature to say what either side has got yet. Wentz isn't an all pro yet. What's true for one side is true for the other in terms of player eval.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I'll take quality over quantity.
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I'll take quality over quantity. You won't know who's quality until maybe November 2018. Could be wentz, could be one of our guys. To not be objective about it until then is foolish imo.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Until you see Kizer be as good or better than Wentz. I agree. It is also interesting that people complained about Cody not throwing it long. Comparing him to Wentz, Cody had a higher yards per completion then did Wentz. A much higher QB rating as well. Wentz - on a much better team - was also hesitant to throw the ball downfield. Could be a rookie thing, no? [color:purple]But...you know...he's bigger...so he CAN do it but wasn't AFRAID to do it...he just simply DIDN'T do it. But Kessler - who actually did it more (albeit statistically) on a worse team...is AFRAID and CAN'T do it. Yeah...that's it.[/color:purple] (I don't really care to actually get the purple thing correct.)
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That's a pretty bold statement when it has only been 1 full season in the books since the trade and all the pieces have not even been acquired from the whole deal. I think we can agree Wentz had a decent rookie season, however, the book on where he will end up along with all the players we have gathered is far from being determined so I have to ask how you are so confident?
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Wentz - on a much better team
Yeah, after Wentz was drafted. Before the 2016 draft they were expected to have as crappy of a season as the Browns. Hence the trade to philly hoping for two early 1st rd picks. BUT NO! We traded that also. Pffft.
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Wentz - on a much better team
Yeah, after Wentz was drafted. Before the 2016 draft they were expected to have as crappy of a season as the Browns. Hence the trade to philly hoping for two early 1st rd picks. BUT NO! We traded that also. Pffft. I don't think that's accurate. I think if you do a side by side comparison of each teams roster - the Eagles were a significantly better team than the Browns. . . . I know that in reviewing their draft needs (I was picking for them in the board mock draft) and looking at their team player grades on PFF - they scored well everywhere except CB.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I*f we had kept the pick and drafted Wentz, there would be tons of people on this board calling a huge bust.
I cannot imagine many QBs who could have succeeded with the team we fielded last year. Young players everywhere is not a ticket to success in the NFL. It will be interesting to see how our young guys from last year develop in this off-season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Unless Wentz was a Peyton Manning-esque generational quarterback, and he definitely wasn't and isn't, taking him under any circumstance would have been a colossal mistake for us.
Thus far, things have gone just about as well as you could expect, I think.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Wentz - on a much better team
Yeah, after Wentz was drafted. Before the 2016 draft they were expected to have as crappy of a season as the Browns. Hence the trade to philly hoping for two early 1st rd picks. BUT NO! We traded that also. Pffft. I don't think that's accurate. I think if you do a side by side comparison of each teams roster - the Eagles were a significantly better team than the Browns. . . . I know that in reviewing their draft needs (I was picking for them in the board mock draft) and looking at their team player grades on PFF - they scored well everywhere except CB. I don't think your post is accurate. You don't remember all the talk about Philly is "guaranteed" to have a worse record than the Browns last year? I even tried to bet CHS on it after he kept saying it. He got quiet, but OCD did bet me. Being the great guy I am, I did not make him pay. Until now....LOL
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I better add on to my last comment.
Philly's offense was horrendous. They did not have one single deep threat on that team. Their WRs dropped a ton of balls. Their OL was a sieve.
People like pointing to stats, but the very same guys who brag about not watching NFL games are the very same ones saying that Wentz had a poor year. I do watch the games, and pretending that Kessler was the better qb is beyond absurd.
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~ Legend
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Indeed. Everyone thought Philly would have a worse record including me. I thought their defense wasn't that good and their offense didn't have the weapon and line to keep up. Surprisingly their offense over performed and the Browns (unsurprisingly) under performed. I didn't know I went quiet about it though? You are right though, I have a toxx clause on betting on internet message boards and would not accept your bet.
That said, neither QB played that well this past season. Carson pretty much nosedived the second half of the season.
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Okay.........I get the bet thing. I just didn't hear from you. That's all.
I actually did watch Wentz, and I do not agree that he played poorly. The guy was asked to do way too much because of the lack of talent around him. I think he actually played very well.
If you remember, I didn't want the Browns to draft Wentz at 2. I applauded the trade. I am not going to say who won or lost that trade, but the bashing of Wentz on this site is out of line.
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I don't think drafting Wentz would have been a totally bad idea last year.
Playing him would have been a totally bad idea and fans would have been demanding that in week 1, so it probably is better that we didn't draft him.
The rocket scientists will be calling for Kizer week 1 of this season as well, but he came cheap so I don't care as much if we break him.
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I'm just sayin...
After Buster Skrine's rookie year, many fans were calling him a bust. Three years later they were screaming when he left in FA. After Schwartz's rookie year, many fans were calling him a bust. Three years later they were screaming when he left in FA.
After Shelton's rookie year, many fans were calling him a bust...
I think it's way too early to be calling Coleman, Coleman, Kessler, Kindred, Drango, Lewis, Payton, Peppers, and Kizer all busts, and that Philly got the better end of that trade because they got a guy who looked pretty good in his rookie season.
Three years from now, it is entirely possible that from that trade we will have at least 1 starting WR, a starting RT, a starting SS, and both a good starting and solid backup QB. And that isn't even counting what we get from the 2 remaining picks from that trade.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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I think you are exaggerating. I also think that the following is true:
--After Weeden's rookie season and second season, folks still argued that he was going to be develop and be a good qb.
--During TRich's second season, people argued w/passion that he was a good RB.
--Cam Erving has been defended by a great many posters in his two years.
--Charlie Frye had a ton of defenders.
--BQ had a ton of lovers.
People are going to talk about players on a message board. Some align one way and some the other way. Sometimes a player develops and sometimes they don't. Presenting only one side of how it plays out doesn't tell the entire story and no conclusions can be drawn from such an argument.
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--Cam Erving has been defended by a great many posters in his two years. Moving him from center for his 3rd year will fix his problems. You know, those same problems that moving him *to* center for his 2nd year was going to fix.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Browns got nine players for Carson
Wentz, and they’re not done yet
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