DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft FRONT FOUR!!!

I think you're gonna see the Backups for DE be Nassib, Orchard, and Cam Johnson (unless some UDFA shows up)

I think you'll see the DT Backups be, Brantley, Ogunjobi, Meder (with the possibility of someone taking Brantley's place/Bryant being cut or retiring)

Bryant is 31, and coming off major injury. I have a hard time seeing him on this team, especially with the attention we have paid to the DL.

Holmes was our second best pass rusher last year. He should be our first off the bench this year behind Garrett and Ogbah.

Was he? I was high on him, but I don't remember Holmes getting all that many snaps.

He fits in with Myles as a physical freak of nature. Just needs developed.

I forgot all about Holmes. We're finally going to have to make some actual tough decisions when the roster cuts come down.

Meder look like a mad man at times maybe with all the help around him he will get better too. We have to have a decent D this year!

Come on Jamie YOU CAN DO IT.

There are going to be some tough cuts this year. Meader might be one of them.

I tend to agree with you on the DL .. Good problem to have !

I am hope he keeps improving, and surprising folks.

It would really suck to see Meader go. I'd find a way to keep him on the team, he's a great kid and his effort and motor are non-stop when he's in uniform. Special teams contributor too. But yeah, we'll cut a player or two that will have NO issues latching onto another team.

I don't disagree with any of that. I just don't see him being a lock.

Face it, as a team gets better, some good players are going to get cut.

Probably wouldn't count on Brantley just yet.

I might be way off base here but I see Des Bryant getting cut before Meder, only because I see Meder as the back-up 1-tech to Shelton and see the two DTs we selected as 3-Techs. So if we kept both rookies, I don't think that means Meder is out but rather we really like our rookies enough to cut Bryant who has suffered significant injuries, took a significant pay cut, and is 31. If Bryant goes back to play like he did with the Raiders and the limited flashes he had here, then maybe one of those guys goes to the practice squad. I don't see what we do with them effecting Meder. But, again, I could be way off. That's simply talking roles in a base 4-3, whereas, to Bryant's credit, he has experience in both fronts and can play 34 DE, 43DE or 43DT.

Agreed. The guy who really is gonna have to show up to make the team is Xavier Cooper. Him and Bryant. They're both 3 Technique, although Bryant is more versatile. I don't think we'll keep Bryant and Cooper on the team, even if Brantley never gets signed because of his legal situation

I forgot about Cooper, but yes, him too.

Hmmmm.........these guys haven't played one NFL game and we are going to have a "dominate" D-line. Yet, when a rookie struggles.........18 homers rush in to tell you that you can't judge a player until 3 years.

Funny how that works, isn't it?

man, you have just been a bundle of joy since the draft ended.

Swish........I think we blew some picks. But, who knows.......I could be wrong.

My biggest concern is that all of this false optimism will lead to unrealistic expectations. I have tried to caution people for years about the very same thing. In response, I get a lot of negative posts directed my way and some sarcasm that doesn't even make sense.

Here is my issue, Swish............We have all of these fans acting like we have so much talent, and then when reality sets in, they then feel the need to blame someone.

Look at last year. I kept saying that our D-talent sucked and that we had the worst secondary in the league. I talked about losing guys like Gipson, Dansby, Whit, etc from an already poor defense and replacing them w/untested guys who don't have a ton of talent. Well, the season gets here and we win one freaking game..........and people scream that Horton has to be fired. LOL.......this crap happens every damn year!!!

We already had "positive posters" ragging on Hue last year. Complaining about him calling plays, being too cute, and being a bum. Imagine what it will be like this year if the team loses a bunch of games again? And the thing is.......they probably will.

I think a lot of you misunderstand my intentions. I am dead-set against firing more coaches and FO people. I think it is best to keep expectations reasonable. Give these guys time to do their thing instead of pretending we are going to be "dominant" in certain areas and how all our picks are "good" or "great" picks.

I know what I just said is either going to fall on deaf ears or be turned around.......just as it always is. History has a way of repeating itself.

I've been guilty, in the past, of getting excited over our drafts.

I said last year I wouldn't be excited OR down. I wasn't, either.

Same this year. Get the guys on the field for a year, then we can discuss.

Good post and now I feel bad.

I promise you guys that I get why fans get excited and it's cool to think we are doing better than other teams, especially since we have lost for so long.

I just like to temper things....not to be a Debbie-Downer, but to help relax expectations because this seems to happen every year and then guys get fired.

I don't want anyone to get fired. I haven't been the biggest fan boy of any of these guys. But, they are here. There are some smart guys on board and the players absolutely love playing for Hue. Let's keep them around.

I think next year is going to be tough in regards to wins and losses. All this positive talk scares me because I think fans will need to blame someone when the losses mount.

The very LAST THING WE SHOULD DO IS FIRE HUE!!!!

I think we should just let this play out. Let's take an approach that says we are supportive of the the people in charge and give them time to do their thing, rather than say "this is a great move" or "how dare anyone question this move, etc.

I feel you but you seem to be chopping down optimism just because.

i don't *think* anybody is super excited as if we're gonna be competing for the playoffs or something.

but people are excited because it appears as if the FO is trying to address everything that was weak with the team.


our D line was trash, and at least on paper, they fixed it.
kept Collins which helped solidify our LB group
our Secondary was beyond trash, and atleast on paper, it goes from trash to below average(we still need a FS minimum).

then combined that with a greg williams hire, whose defense was ranked 9th overall (16th against the run, 10th against the pass), and it's hard not to get excited bro.

so you see what he was able to do with guys like Aaron Donald, and it's hard not to get pumped with what he can potentially do with Garrett, Shelton, and Ogbah.

so i feel you on wanting to be realistic, but don't cross the line and be a party pooper, bro lol.

also, side note: Gipson had an "eh" season, Dansby is on his third team in 4 years (back at arizona), Whitner isn't even currently on a roster, and Kruger looked old and slow with the saints.

we went 3-13 with those guys the 2015 season. so if losing those guys = 2 extra loses from 3-13 to 1-15.....well did we REALLY lose anything?

i'm not saying those guys are bums, but they weren't exactly game changers. we go from 27th defense(379.2) in 2015 with those guys to 31st defense(392.4 yards a game) in 2016 without them.

so with them, we look like trash on a boat going to a dumpsite. without them, we look like trash on a boat going to a dumpsite.

not really a huge loss there.

A few points:

--I think the FO could have done a lot better by taking Hooker at 12 and also taking at least 2-3 other DBs.

--I do not think the DL was nearly as bad as the secondary. I love the Garrett pick, but the others.....not so much.

--The Rams were 23rd in scoring defense last year.

--I wasn't trying to say those guys who got cut were great players, but they were vets and relying on all of those untested players was going to be an issue. Horton got unfairly blamed.

--Bro, I don't think we have a qb. Teams schemed against Kessler last year and took away our run. We had to be almost perfect on every play to have a chance. We would have one or two drives per game where that worked and people hang their hats on that, but you can't win games in the NFL that way.

--Also, our WRs are a real concern. We lost our best WR from a group that was not very good and didn't replace him w/quality.

--I think our secondary is going to get torched. We will be exploited by TEs and by WRs who can run seam routes. LA had that happen a lot last year and our talent in those areas is poor.

--With that said, I think we are getting better..........and you can't fix everything at once. I just think we are going to lose a ton of games this year and there is no way that Hue should get fired. And bro......if the losses mount.......just watch the blame game against Hue grow.

Reasonable, Vers. I fall victim every year. I do think our front seven is gonna be much better, and not just because of the picks. Gregg Williams is a difference maker. And maybe the OL is better and we can run. But we can win five times as many games as last year and still suck.
Agree about keeping Hue. Let him struggle, let him fail, let him grow. In 4-5 years, we'll have a great coach.

Swapping Dansby with Demario Davis or whatever that guy's name is didn't make any sense. We already had a talented leader in the locker room, why swap him with an untalented leader, lol. We really could have used Dansby, if just for one year. The Front Office really tried to sell Davis, but really, he was pretty unimpressive. His fallout with the Jets should have been a sign for us.


And Gipson was IMO the biggest loss we faced. I was a big Gipson fan and really hoped we would keep him. I mistakenly had faith in Ibraheim Campbell because I liked his play at Northwestern (which I had seen a lot of). I screwed that all up. Poyer I wasn't high on though. But I certainly thought we'd get so much more out of Campbell. Gipson had some injury issues, but was severely underrated IMO.

Donte Whitner, well, we disagree on him. And from what I've remembered, we've argued that one enough to leave it at that.


But it's hard not to get excited (and hopeful) after the drafts. It's one of the only things we have to really look forward to after like Week 3 of the regular season. lol


Call me optimistic, but I think we'll win 6 or 7 games next year. Thinking we won't is pretty depressing in my book. Also, I think our O-Line has gotten better. And I think our defense will be better. Having a young defense like ours with the D-Coordinator up in a booth never made sense to me. They need someone on the field coaching, especially while the offense is on the field and they're getting a breather

I think we our over/under number is 4, and that is before I saw the article where they predicted the same damn thing.

Certainly is better than 1. Hopefully we're better than 4 though.

You're not as high on Kessler as I am, that'll be a big factor I'd imagine. That and how the injuries play themselves out

Well, if Kessler is the starter...........I will reduce my win total as he negatively affects the performance of others. I know that won't be a popular statement, but he's already been figured out.

Stats don't tell the real story on this one.

But don't you think there's some chance that maybe after a season under his belt, working with Tom House on footwork and technique, that he will get rid of the ball quicker, feel more comfortable taking shots, and maybe even improve his arm strength just a little (which I think is the most criticized part to him, and i think it's a bit ridiculous. His arm strength isn't as bad as his unwillingness to take those shots)

I think he can improve mentally. I think he can rid of the ball quicker. I think he will improve on some of his strengths. However, the notion that a professional qb [who played at freaking USC} can significantly improve his arm strength is preposterous.

I think NE figured him out. I actually said it before they did it to us. Stack the LOS and stop the run, which was 4th in the entire NFL. Challenge him to beat you w/deep throws and the more difficult intermediate throws. Force him to dink and dunk his was down the field. He was able to do that a few times and some posters cling to that......like when he had that perfect drive against NE. The problem is that it was one drive. It's so hard to be perfect drive after drive.

Dude is limited. Thus, are other players are limited as a result. People will rag on Crow and Hue while pointing to Kessler's awesome stats.

Oh, I agree that arm strength can only be improved upon so much. You can work on foot work and core strength to improve it a little bit, maybe not much, but we've seen it work on some guys.

Peyton Manning didn't have a rocket coming out of Tennessee. Tom Brady didn't have a rocket coming out of Michigan. And Drew Brees never had a rocket. All three improved their arm strength throughout their time in the league IMO. Same with Chad Pennington (before all his injuries). Might not have been a significant increase, but I do think there was something.

I don't think his arm is as weak as people make it seem though. And I think that is an overrated attribute. Being able to throw with anticipation and being accurate with that deep throw is most important. Having good technique, footwork, and anticipation (so that you're throwing the ball on time) is just as important.


I think it's a matter of Cody willing to throw those passes than his abillity to actually do it

3 to 5 wins sounds about right for 2017. What I hope to see is significant improvement from game 1 to game 16. Build foundation for the future.

I think they will release Desmond Bryant. He's older and expensive. With the new guys they drafted, I think Bryant will be cut the minute his injury is healed. I could be wrong but it won't surprise me if they release him.

If Kessler is the man this year then we need to change the offense. Go straight up West Coast. A system that was designed for QB's just like Kessler. Hue CAN do that. He is very familiar with that offense. He was OC under Mooch at Cal and worked under Gruden in the Nati. But the offense he has said he wants to run is down field passing, stretch it offense... More like the Air Coryell offense. That isn't Kessler. You can't teach arm talent. You can try to improve it with technique to some extent but you can't make a Kessler into a Favre. I THINK that Brock will end up starting. Not that he has a huge arm or great downfield accuracy but I think he is better suited to what Hue wants to do.... I may be completely wrong about that.... he may get cut tomorrow... but my feeling is Brock is going to win the job in camp. We shall see....

I agree that 4 wins is about right. But I see that as a reason for optimism. That's 4 times as many wins as last year, and it promises more improvement as these pups gain experience and we add more quality players.

I agree Hooker would have been great, and I was both rooting for that pick and disappointed when we didn't take him. But at that moment, we didn't know how we were going to address the QB vacancy, and adding another 2018 1st rounder was a prudent, if not popular, move. The question, is Peppers + 2018 1st > Hooker? Only time will answer that.

Then Kizer was still there at 52. I was high on Kizer to start the college season, but my interest faded with his performance. He's a Brown now, and I hope Hue/Lee/House can straighten out whatever went haywire.

The front 4 will be better than it was. Great remains to be seen, but Garrett draws more attention giving the others more freedom. Where last year, Ogbah was the concern, this year he's the lesser threat, so should see more chances to affect the game. I remain optimistic that the other additions will improve the line as well.

I love that we are finally running a 4-3 defense. It is easier to play and easier to draft for. We have a really good start at a front four defensive line. We now have starting talent at 3 of the 4 positions and good chances at finding a 4th. We also have some real depth that can rotate in and keep the starters fresh for 4 quarters. That is important. Yes, or defensive backs are suspect and may cause us real problems. But you can't build Rome in one day. Everyone always says the game is won in the trenches. Well, the front office and coaching staff have greatly improved our offensive and defensive lines this offseason. The secondary will come in time as will other areas but it;s a start and in my opinion a damned good one. I'm hoping that getting pressure on opposing QB's will help the secondary at least somewhat.