DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Arkansas Executions

Arkansas intends to execute seven prisoners next week. The most by a state in such a short time since the Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment back in 1976.

Most of the condemned have long lists of unpaid parking violations and late returns on library books. (they’re strict in Arkansas).

Hey, I'm joking.

They’re all vicious brutal murderers.

One example.

Kenneth Williams was sentenced to life in prison for murdering a college cheerleader back in 1998. He escaped, broke into a guy’s house, stole his guns and murdered him.

Hopefully, this time Arkansas gets it right.

I got an idea. If you’re against the death penalty, how about you volunteer for The”Early Release” program where you get to help a convicted murderer adjust to decent society.

So I want go over something with the “Guns for Home Defense” crowd.

I have no philosophical or moral problem with a homeowner shooting an uninvited, unwelcome stranger in the home.

But this guy here, Kenneth Williams, obviously snuck into the home of Cecil Boren.



Probably caught Cecil completely off-guard watching TV (or something similar)

The only way, Cecil could have shot Williams is if he had a loaded gun right in his hands. Or right next to him.

I’m sure Williams was on him in a matter of seconds. Probably with a club.

How is a gun in the home - for the purpose of Home Defense - gonna stop this?

The only way is to pretty much have a holstered loaded gun on your person whenever you’re in your house. Everyday, always.

Right? That sucks.

I just don’t see this being effective. On the contrary, I’d say dangerous.

It’s just too hard.

The only effective home defense I could think of is a smart, fair-sized, dog. Especially one that reacts loudly to unusual activity.

Then a loaded gun maybe in a rarely frequented cabinet makes more sense.

Then maybe Williams would already be worm food and Cecil could be watching Hee Haw reruns.

You will always be able to conceive & construct situations and narrow conditions where it won't be optimal. It isn't a cure-all. Nothing is. That does not diminish its value in any way at all.

However, for those times when it CAN help, it's pretty darned nice to have that option on the table for you.

I keep a loaded handgun in my room with me, next to my nightstand, with a round chambered. If I had to, I could get to it fairly quickly -- unless the intruder was already in that room with me, or already on me, I would at least have a chance.

Aside from that, it doesn't matter what you have in the room - your only choice is to fight like you're the third lion in line for Noah's Ark - and the water is rising. Raw, rapid violence.... or die. Given that these are the options, ANYTHING that could give me an advantage is something I'd welcome.



You seem to think it is an either-or decision.

House alarm, dogs, good locks, etc.... and a firearm. It all works together. If the other stuff doesn't deter them, you have the Last Resort in your hands.

Agreed.

And, dogs accustomed to a family's routine are great. Especially great at realizing/hearing something that ISN'T routine.

Just this morning, for example. Our 20-21 lb. dog. Wife normally gets home at just a few minutes after 7 a.m. Opens the garage door. Dog does nothing, as that's routine.

This morning, wife left the car outside on the drive as the dealership was coming to pick it up. She entered through the walk in door of the garage, When that door shut, he went crazy!!! That was NOT routine, in his eyes/ears. And, he let me know.

And yes, locks, and home alarms are great. All they do is give a warning - more time for you to react.

I don't sit in the living room with a loaded gun. I don't sleep with a loaded gun.

I'm not familiar with the story, did he break in to rob him or did he break in with the express intent of killing him? People go to the bathroom, they take showers, they sleep.. unless we pay armed guards 24/7, we are going to at least be a little vulnerable at times.. it's a trade-off how vulnerable we wish to be. Most of us are not THAT important that we need the 24/7 guard option because people aren't gunning for us. They just want to steal the TV and get on down the road...


This is good if he's trying to sneak in and rob you and get away undetected, if he's trying to kill you.. he will just shoot the dog first.

Nothing is perfect if somebody really has the intent. That's the first thing you learn doing construction for the FBI, DoJ, FEMA, etc.. answer the question, what are you protecting this from? If it's the casual thief or the opportunist, then you need one level of security.. if it's a Chinese or Soviet operative hell bent on getting in, then you need a completely different level of security... if it's an ISIS sympathizer who is just happy to cause death and destruction from the outside, then that's a 3rd different thing...

I have a very good friend of mine who's brother was executed by the State of Ohio. Did he deserve it? Sure. Haven't seen my friend in a few but when we do he doesn't talk about it and I don't bring it up.

My guns are in a safe, cept for one. That one is within 4-5 seconds of me now and at most, moving at a good clip, 10-12 seconds from anywhere in the house. Plus. We have 2 little doggies that'll bark at the slightest. I feel good with the above. To have a gun within arms reach 24/7/365 to me is somewhat "over the top" imo. To those that do, good for you as well. Then again, we don't live in an area considered dangerous. Although one never knows.

Age has to do with it as well. 25-30 years ago I was 295lbs on a scale and a 1000lbs on a mans a**. Now? Ughh. With, for the most part not being physically able to protect my family in a time where crime imo is unprecedented in my lifetime, I worry. Afraid? No. Just "top of mind" quite often.

I've had my CCW licence since 2007. Carried quite often for 5-6 years then for some reason I stopped. No reason in particular. Then, roughly 2 years ago I started again. The reason......
.....i've never seen this country as violent and unsafe as it's been the last few. Never.

Sorry y'all. Not sure why you needed to know all that. Just thinkin and typin.

Did anyone really think they were going to execute these scum?



This garbage that the chemicals don’t work right is pure unadulterated B.S.

Hey I had a colonoscopy last year. “Count backwards from 100.” I didn’t make it to 98.

Once unconscious, they could have shoved stuff up my [Edited by rockyhilldawg] and I wouldn’t have known. You know what? I think they did.

It’s all about lawyers (who couldn’t care less about the scumbag convicts) making a name for themselves.

But even besides that, the Arkansas governor must have known they weren’t going to be able to pull this off.

I just wonder what the true political motivation is.

Relax Rocky, they're still in prison and not getting out anytime soon.

I'm not sure I've ever seen somebody so upset that 8 men were not killed.

Tell it to the families of the murdered.

I'm sure they'd share your sentiment.

Thank God I have never been through anything like this.. but if I were a family member, I don't think I would care if they were executed or rotting in prison.. I would just want the media saga to end after decades..

Either way, it's not bringing my family member back.

Quote above by DC:

“I don't think I would care if they were executed or rotting in prison”

It’s easy to say that here.

But, execution brings closure.

The Beast is dead.

The family doesn't have to wonder “What’s he doing right now?”. "Our baby's dead." There’s never going to be a parole hearing. There’s never going to be an escape.

Cecil Boren would still be alive, if Kenneth Williams had been executed instead of receiving “life” for the December 1998 kidnapping and murder of Dominique Hurd, a cheerleader at the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff.

I wonder if Dominique Hurd’s family is glad Kenneth Williams wasn’t executed. I don’t think we have to wonder what Cecil Boren’s family thinks.

The scary thing is there's probably a hundred murderers who are free and still murdering.

I don't think I would care... I don't know for sure.


I also never said anything about being "glad" if they weren't...

quote by me above:

"...the Arkansas governor must have known they weren’t going to be able to pull this off."

Boy was I wrong.



Hey did you catch how the attorney of the second executee tried to say the first guy was in pain and talking (after the injection)? (Fortunately all the other witnesses, including reporters, said “No he wasn’t”)

They should have strapped the lawyer in.

“Oh my dear goodness. Let’s check this out.”

Way to go Arkansas !

No kiddin’

I’m so happy they executed this Kenneth Williams who savagely murdered at least 4 completely innocent Arkansas citizens.

I’m sure the victims families can sleep better knowing this beast is dead and gone.

And I like how some of the witnesses to Williams execution described how “horrifying" his execution was - probably his family and attorneys hoping to get some recognition and maybe even cash out of this loser’s death (like they really could otherwise give a rat’s patoot about their loser relative) "Ma po baby, u kilt ma po baby" "What be his name agin?"



I’m starting to like this Arkansas governor - Asa Hutchinson (R). “ We followed proper protocol.” “NEXT”

Four down, four to go.

“Number #5, now serving #5”

This is a great thing Arkansas is doing. There are many many many more criminals in prison that deserve the same fate. Why wait so long? 17 years. That is just not right. His victims did not get 17 years to wait for death.

while i support executions, it's a bit creepy seeing some of you guys highly enthusiastic about it.

agreed.

Death is grizzly business, no matter what.
It's hard for me to screw up any enthusiasm for it at all. Under any circumstance.

Same here. I've got serious mixed feelings about it, and I don't think I could be the one to flip the switch.

quote above by swish:

"while i support executions, it's a bit creepy seeing some of you guys highly enthusiastic about it"

Check me if I'm wrong swish, but haven't you fired an M-16 at people with the intent to kill or at least horribly maim them? To put holes through their bodies? To rip apart their organs?

Isn't that what you deeply wanted at the moment you were pulling the trigger?

Or is that different in your mind?

And Clem, other than "agreed" I don't understand your post except maybe to say you're not being asked to carry out the execution.

And two, unless you're Jesus incarnate, you'd feel different if your family, if your loved ones were brutally raped and murdered.

There used to be an expression, "A liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet."

Firing a weapon in combat is different from executions.

One is survival-based, the other is punishment-based.

And no, I did not enjoy firing my weapon at others, no matter how much of a scumbag they were for being insurgents.

I deeply wanted to LIVE when I fired my weapon, as the only reason to fire downrange is because your life is on the line.

Combat and executions are completely different.

Yes.

It just goes to prove what I've always said. They're not pro life, they're pro birth.

And it still makes zero sense.

Think it is time to bring back the electric chair. As really the electric chair I heard fries them. Lethal injection way too easier of a death.

I feel no guilt about enforcing the law and meeting out justice to violent criminals. There is no need of hate but the law is the law. I just wish they meted out the punishment a LOT faster.

Sure it does. You wish to force their birth saying you're pro life. Yet you wish to cut social programs to insure their extreme poverty. Then if they commit terrible crimes, you promote their death.

Once they're born, you don't give a damn about their life.

Silly.

If you kill a one day old, it is a crime and you get punished.
That battle is won. Pro life is the law.

If you kill a kid one day before that, is where the fight begins.
We fight for your right to have a life. It matters not if you are rich or poor or in the middle. We do not place a dollar value on human life like you do. You should have a right to a life.

We are Pro Life, from conception to death. We also believe in the freedom to make of yourself what you will.

Your attitude of "Oh, your life will be hard so you must die" is evil.

j/c

I have some questions.

Why is partial birth abortion fine? You know, that type of abortion where the kid is pulled out just a little, and then it's skull is crushed. That's not considered cruel and unusual punishment?

Why is abortion allowed, yet if someone has, say, a car accident and an unborn fetus is killed, it's considered murder?


Why is it that states can't seem to kill people without it being labeled as (this is in death sentence situations) cruel and unusual punishment?

Why can't states just put them to sleep, and keep the sleeping gas on until said murderer is dead?

Ever had a surgery? I have. You just fall asleep. Why not keep that gas going till they die? (people on death row, that is)

Why do we need 3 different drugs - 1 to knock them out, 1 to stop the heart, and 1 to stop the breathing?

Ever had a pet put down? They fall asleep, and they die.

I struggle with the death penalty, I'll admit that. But why can't it be done with no problems?

You see, I don't try to make that call. That call is between that individual and God. But far too often many of these babies are born into poverty.

Then, the GOP tries to cut food stamps, welfare and health programs for those exact same babies. There's a difference between pro life and pro birth. I don't believe anyone with an ounce of true Christianity within themselves can be both pro life and also be in favor of cutting the very programs that help feed them, house them and further their education in urban areas.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

As a Christian I think that entering wealth into the equation of Life and Death is evil.

So you just assume everyone is guilty, and mistakes are never made?

I think time and care needs to be taken to make sure without a shadow of a doubt they are guilty.

It does bother me though that appeals are put in for people who admit to what they have done and dont even want appeals.