I like Watson, but not for Cleveland. It will take a tough son of a gun to right the QB position in Cleveland. For whatever reason, our QB's always get mauled. Watson doesn't have the size to take the hits our division unleashes.
Watson may have some success in the league, especially playing most of his game in a warm environment. He may have some success like Teddy Bridgewater.
--Dak does not get enough respect. How did Dallas do the previous year w/that same great OL when Weeden and Cassell were the qbs? I thought they won something like 4 games? Am I wrong about that?
--Are posters really pretending that they preferred Kizer over Watson BEFORE the draft? Hmmmmmm.........I'm not the type to go back and look things up because I think that screams "loser," but I could have sworn that Trub, Watson, and Mahomes all got way more love from almost all y'all in the last few months. Something smells fishy. LOL
--Back to Peppers. He is the kind of player fans will like. He will dazzle on special teams. He will make a few big plays [similar to TJ Ward] and will also be a liability to our pass defense, which will not be recognizable to most fans. I hope I am dead wrong, but I think that was a terrible pick.
--Dak does not get enough respect. How did Dallas do the previous year w/that same great OL when Weeden and Cassell were the qbs? I thought they won something like 4 games? Am I wrong about that?
--Are posters really pretending that they preferred Kizer over Watson BEFORE the draft? Hmmmmmm.........I'm not the type to go back and look things up because I think that screams "loser," but I could have sworn that Trub, Watson, and Mahomes all got way more love from almost all y'all in the last few months. Something smells fishy. LOL
--Back to Peppers. He is the kind of player fans will like. He will dazzle on special teams. He will make a few big plays [similar to TJ Ward] and will also be a liability to our pass defense, which will not be recognizable to most fans. I hope I am dead wrong, but I think that was a terrible pick.
I certainly was higher on Kizer than Watson. You'll see in more than a few threads that I said that I thought Watson would be there in the 2nd round and I wouldn't take him then.
I think Peppers will be fine for the coverage responsibilities that he'll have which won't be a ton in his first year. We'll have 4 DB's behind him. We drafted him to get some speed in the box and to be a tackle machine, which I think he'll do well at.
Dep, I wasn't saying everyone and I believe you when you say you liked Kizer better than Watson..........but, it's not hard to go find that way more people wanted Watson than Kizer. There was even a thread about drafting him first overall.
We are going to have to disagree on Peppers. You say that he won't have a ton of coverage responsibilities. Okay. I counter with that being a problem. Why the hell draft a DB if he can't cover? I don't like DBs who can't cover and it is why I wasn't a fan of TJ Ward. They get to do a lot of cool stuff, but meanwhile, they compromise the entire defense because you can't count on them or even ask them to do what they really should be doing.
In a roundabout way, I was kind of agreeing with you about guys liking Watson. There's a guy like him every year that everyone thinks will be the next Michael Vick.
Peppers is going to be more of a LB than a DB, just like Mark Barron. He'll be lining up on the weak side of the field like Barron as well. So the TE is usually going to be on Collins side. So he'll have a second TE in 2 TE sets or a RB coming out of the backfield. He'll get worked into more coverage than that as time goes, but Michigan didn't do him any favors by playing him at LB and we'll have to work on his technique as we go.
He'll get 100 plus tackles his first season if he stays healthy and a bunch of tackles for loss and that is exactly what Williams wants out of him.
I was actually going to ask you this earlier Vers but now that it's brought up I guess I will.
Now I'm not going to be an apologist for peppers or say that he will improve his overall skillet. He has deficiencies.
We both felt the same about ward. I was never a fan. His missed tackles made me cringe. That said I would say where tj laid wood and missed tackles peppers has less thump and more security in his wraps. I think he also has quite a bit more speed and burst. I'd also say while he is a relative unknown as a coverage guy I can't say 100% that he can't develop there. I won't say that he will or that he's inept but it's a risk. It is promising that he was a cb initially.
So that said the tj comp is interesting. I didn't like him but if he missed less tackles, was more athletic and still showed room to grow as a coverage man well I bet I wouldve like him. I initially liked peppers. Did my hw. Still liked him. Let the heads infiltrate my mind and cooled. But when I revisited in early April having studied the other options, man, he may only be a tj ward but he also has a chance to be special. We need special. Does that not sound like a decent prospect for a late 1st especially in this scheme? If not, to each their own. He's not a gut I would've pumped but I heavily support this move.
In 2010 TJ Ward ran a 4.56 forty yard dash. Jabrill Peppers at this years combine ran a 4.46 forty yard dash.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
I am not comparing Ward's and Pepper's speed, tackling ability, discipline, etc.
I was just comparing that both guys were/are a liability in coverage. That's it. Nothing more to it. Well, w/one amendment. Both make "flash" plays and many fans and media members only see those things.
And pred.........my biggest issue w/this pick is that we didn't take Hooker at 12. Hooker is a rare talent that can make the entire defense better, rather than having the rest of the defense, and especially the secondary, compensate for a DBs lack of ability to cover.
And even if you don't like Hooker...........guys like Allen [who so many on here loved and wanted over Garrett,] Howard [who so many were hoping for at 12,] Humphrey, and Jackson were all available.
The draft fell perfectly for us to get a dynamic player at 12 and we foolishly passed on that pick and ended up w/a DB who can't cover.
Came across this article earlier. Here's just an excerpt, but the whole thing is worth a look.
Quote:
Chavous remembered hearing similar doubts about the late Pat Tillman and Sammy Knight, two former NFL safeties who played linebacker in college, and he considers Peppers a better athlete than either of them, a player who was a state champion in track in high school and ran a 4.46 40-yard dash at the scouting combine.
Chavous saw Peppers play cornerback his freshman year at Michigan before he got hurt, and was impressed with his ability there. He believes his cover skills are better than he’s been given credit for. Peppers, Chavous pointed out, had 10 pass breakups as a sophomore. Adams, the player some believe is the best safety in the draft, had 15 in his entire college career.
“I think he’s one of the top 10 players in the draft,” Chavous said of Peppers.
The Peppers with 10 PBUs and Adams only having 15 stood out to me when I read it earlier. Adams had 4 PBUs and 1 INT last year Link. Peppers had 1 PBU and 1 INT, but he had more TFLs and sacks Link
You don't really hear the same coverage knock on Adams, though.
There are some negative perspectives on the article, too.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The draft fell perfectly for us to get a dynamic player at 12 and we foolishly passed on that pick and ended up w/a DB who can't cover.
I always thought hooker was terrible at tackling.. The Browns needs for stopping the run are in such demand. I feel we get a better run stopper and special teams player with Peppers than with Hooker.
Since drafting first-round safety Jabrill Peppers, the Browns have attempted to answer the question that no other team could: How will he be used?
"He's football player, a very dynamic player," Browns head coach Hue Jackson said, via the team's official site. "Obviously, he's going to play defense for us, but we'll find a role for him over there on offense. No question."
The term "mismatch player" has been thrown around an awful lot since the draft and creates the need to be cautiously optimistic for Browns fans. Is "mismatch player" just a rebranding effort for the "hybrid" player Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams had in Los Angeles? Safety-turned-linebacker Mark Barron is listed with the exact same height and weight as Peppers, though he made the transition from safety to linebacker and not the other way around. Will it end up being a similar role?
"We were really excited just to get a player that fits our scheme and the experience that Gregg has had finding players like Jabrill and making them successful," said Sashi Brown, the team's executive vice president.
Brown went on to say Peppers has "perhaps a dynamic play style and athletic ability that probably Gregg hasn't had in that position and the other guys he's actually turned into Pro Bowlers."
A look back at Williams' Pro Bowlers over the last decade -- Sean Taylor, Roman Harper, Darren Sharper, Jonathan Vilma, Robert Quinn and Aaron Donald -- doesn't provide much context. But I'm sure in Pappers' rookie year they'd take the production of Barron, who picked off two passes, broke up eight more, recovered a fumble, logged a sack and posted 90 solo tackles. Add in some returned kicks and a few trick plays on offense, and that's a Year 1, first-round value.
Based on combine measurables, Michigan's Jabrill Peppers is faster than Antonio Brown (Peppers 4.46 in 40-yard dash, Brown 4.57), quicker than DeSean Jackson (Peppers 1.54 seconds in 10-yard split, Jackson 1.55), and jumps higher than A.J. Green (Peppers 35-1/2 inch vertical jump, Green 34 1/2).
I think the rap on Hooker's tacking is far overblown. Furthermore, you rarely find true FS's anymore. By that, I mean guys who can range from sideline to sideline. They are so rare and so valuable.
I think the rap on Hooker's tacking is far overblown. Furthermore, you rarely find true FS's anymore. By that, I mean guys who can range from sideline to sideline. They are so rare and so valuable.
Btw----------check out Peppers on this run play:
Good angle? Fought off block? Make tackle?
Free safeties always seem to get knocked for their tackling and SS's get knocked for their coverage. It just seems to be the way it is.
You are preaching to the choir on Hooker. A FS with his range makes all of the other DB's look better.
A person can cherry pick plays from ANYONE'S career and make them look good or bad. Are you suggesting getting swallowed up in a power sweep makes him a horrible player? Tsk Tsk that is petty.
I am not comparing Ward's and Pepper's speed, tackling ability, discipline, etc.
I was just comparing that both guys were/are a liability in coverage. That's it. Nothing more to it. Well, w/one amendment. Both make "flash" plays and many fans and media members only see those things.
And pred.........my biggest issue w/this pick is that we didn't take Hooker at 12. Hooker is a rare talent that can make the entire defense better, rather than having the rest of the defense, and especially the secondary, compensate for a DBs lack of ability to cover.
And even if you don't like Hooker...........guys like Allen [who so many on here loved and wanted over Garrett,] Howard [who so many were hoping for at 12,] Humphrey, and Jackson were all available.
The draft fell perfectly for us to get a dynamic player at 12 and we foolishly passed on that pick and ended up w/a DB who can't cover.
Ah I see. I somewhat addressed that I just thought maybe it would help you understand others perspective by comparing to tj. I had hooker as my no2 so I'm right there with you. But you know my process probably by now. I value blue chip traits more than total skill sets in high prospects. I also value round 1 and 2 picks like gold whereas most people just top 15.
I was very upset we didn't take hooker or o.j. for that matter. I even thought the plan was to jump back up once 2 or 3 of my top 4 were gone(o.j., hooker, Allen, mcdowell,). That said based on the way I evaluate and value assetts jabrill+njoku+1st>hooker+33+106. Even with trading back jabrill was no 3 on my board.
If all else were the same I would've traded up for 25 to 18 for o.j., McDowell at 33 and Kizer unless jabrill, maye, or Williams fell, and sutton at 65. I would've lost my damn mind if we walked out with that draft
What is anyone supposed to do in this situation? Curtis just took his first step forward to the line of scrimmage. Michigan has 3 players on that side of the field and Ohio State has four blockers. Also shouldn't the strong safety have maintained his inside presence instead of following Jabrill to the outside. That's just good playcalling and a dangerous weapon.
What is anyone supposed to do in this situation? Curtis just took his first step forward to the line of scrimmage. Michigan has 3 players on that side of the field and Ohio State has four blockers. Also shouldn't the strong safety have maintained his inside presence instead of following Jabrill to the outside. That's just good playcalling and a dangerous weapon.
All I can think of seeing that play is.
THANK YOU CLEMSON!!!
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
You could argue that on that play, he gets outside and seals the edge turning the RB back inside to interior pursuit. But #25 took the wrong angle and failed to fill the hole and the inside pursuit didn't do it's job.
I don't know if that is what happened not do I know what he was supposed to do. Just offering another interpretation for consideration.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
In my opinion the day Jabrill Peppers walks onto the field wearing a Browns uniform he will instantly be the team's best tackler. He tackles like he loves it. We will see what kind of coverage skills he has, but I believe we will love his sure tackling. Hope that rubs off on some of the other guys....
Here's hoping Greg Williams uses him creatively. Love to see the kid get some sacks! I love a good safety blitz!
I think the rap on Hooker's tacking is far overblown. Furthermore, you rarely find true FS's anymore. By that, I mean guys who can range from sideline to sideline. They are so rare and so valuable.
Btw----------check out Peppers on this run play:
Good angle? Fought off block? Make tackle?
No it's not Vers. You like Hooker so much you're willing to overlook it.
I like him too. As a center fielder. But loathe him as my last line of defense. It's all opinion.
Many are overlooking something here.
It's pretty obvious that we wanted to improve our RUN DEFENSE.
A QB has hindered our Offense for years. The inability to control running games has hindered this Defense for years.
Adding Garrett to Ogunjobi, Brantley and Peppers could solidify it. When we can hold teams to under 100 rushing YPG this Defense will have turned the corner. Peppers is a HUGE part of that.
Side Note. From previous years. What do you remember about Powell when at Ohio State?
Hooker's tackling issues are way overblown. He made plenty of very good tackles where he really broke down. People have shown a few where he took bad angles and then everyone acts like it was a huge issue. It wasn't. That is why I showed the video. I am not saying that Peppers is a bad tackler. I am saying these things happen in the course of a year.
Powell? I remember that he had good size. He made some nice picks. I remember him being a passionate player. I also remember that he missed a lot of tackles and got beat deep too often. I did think he would be drafted and was a bit surprised when he wasn't.
Hooker's tackling issues are way overblown. He made plenty of very good tackles where he really broke down. People have shown a few where he took bad angles and then everyone acts like it was a huge issue. It wasn't. That is why I showed the video. I am not saying that Peppers is a bad tackler. I am saying these things happen in the course of a year.
Powell? I remember that he had good size. He made some nice picks. I remember him being a passionate player. I also remember that he missed a lot of tackles and got beat deep too often. I did think he would be drafted and was a bit surprised when he wasn't.
I don't think you guys are saying different things were all just too bullheaded to be wrong. Hooker actually has great technique at times. He breaks down and wraps as good as any s in the class. It's a consistency issue. Sometimes He doesn't extend, attack and bring his feet. He missed a lot of tackles but his tape suggest he can clean it up over time. It wasn't really a concern for me but to say it's overblown I think is wrong. I just think everyone views it black and white and it's not.
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