DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Browns pick Jabrill Peppers with the 25th pick

j/c

I was thrilled when it became apparent that we could get Hooker to go along with Garrett. I thought we'd be on Hooker like me on a Bud Light. Then we traded...which wasn't a shock other than Hooker was right there. I started reading more about the guy - if that's even possible - and seeing the comparisons to Ed Reed.

Their college careers are not comparable. Reed played S for four years at Miami...Hooker played one year at S and one at STs...but ONE year at S. It was a great one...but it was still ONE. Then he required surgery after that ONE season. That's when the trade down started to make sense to me...not saying I would have done that, but I get it.

Looking deeper into Peppers' college career...he basically had a nothing first year that ended with an injury and then had two productive, improving years after that...on a bad team. I still think I'd rather have Hooker straight up...but getting a #1 next year + Peppers lets me see that light.

Just a guess but from what I've read JP sounds like a player that really fits GW system and that's why we drafted him. If that's the case he could turn into quite a player for us.

it'll be interesting to see what transpires between Peppers (and whoever we pick next year w/Houston's pick) vs Hooker

agreed. Peppers has to be happy to land with Williams IMO

I think Hooker's range works against him somewhat as far as tackling. Yes, he missed some tackles, but he came screaming across the field to get close enough to miss.

For all that I love Hooker, looking back at his season he may be a bit more of a straight line athlete than I really thought about. It would have been interesting to see his agility numbers.

He has the speed and explosion to see it, run straight to it, and go up and get it with the best of them, but I'm starting to wonder about the Ed Reed comp some. Yes, he's got the ballhawk factor, but the ways that they do it is somewhat different.

He's got a long way to go to catch up with the savvy Reed had. It'll be interesting to see how he develops.

I'm not sure how much help Hooker is going to get from his pass rush. Indy scooped up Mingo and Sheard at OLB.

Hopefully Peppers benefits from a ferocious pass rush with us.

Eo, like allways people tend to pick the info that validates theire prejudices (I'm also guilty)

Watch this video: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=19209620

ESPN sports science, velocity of Deshaun is 53,5 and is limited by is flat footed throwing motion (something he will get better for sure)


The combine values were not official values, but done by a guy with a blog, and were never validated by anyone.

Trubisky is QB that has problems in the huddle, and no extraordinary physical skills...

Too bad nobody will allow him to return them unless the kickers "misses" on the kick-off and only drives it 4=5 yards deep. Most kickers will be practicing on driving the ball through the uprights.

Actually, I wouldn't want him on kick off returns. To many get hurt in that role. Punt returns is another deal. He should get plenty of action there.

It may be premature(and wishful thinking) but we may now have in MG and JP guys who we now can build our D around. In DK we also may have a guy who we can now build our O around although we may have to wait a bit longer there. I have no misconceptions about the Browns but it looks like there may finally start to be some hope.

Since this is the Peppers thread I forgot to mention that:

21st in tackling efficiency with 6 missed tackles

Pet peeve of mine too....



this is pretty much what I guessed it would be in another thread...smh that the combine number is repeated by so many...

Kessler gets "insults", as you call them, regarding his arm strength because he doesn't have a lot of it. They're not insults, they are opinions forged by watching him throw the football, without the brown and orange glasses on.

I also go by stats from the combine. I go by stats from the combine because they standardized and uniform across the board.

The "velocity" numbers from the combine does not come close to meeting combine criteria for measurement. They use a radar gun and test the velocity on certain throws during the throwing sessions. And the intent on those throws isn't even to throw the ball hard its to throw the ball with accuracy and placement and by all accounts Watson did that the best at the combine. While some QBs were throwing high velocity passes behind, late, off target to the inside of routes where the throw should have been outside etc.

Also, you can't compare Watson's true velocity scientifically calculated number to Kessler non-standardized radar gun (with a several mph standard variance).

You can also watch them throw and clearly see that Watson has a better arm then Kessler.

Anyhow it is what it is... ole weak armed Watson has been labeled by the media and despite all the actual evidence to the contrary the media wins.

I called a girl ugly today. I told her it wasn't an insult because I had watched her and forged my opinion based on what I saw. My black eye suggests otherwise.

Your opinion of her appearance has no bearing on her ability to deliver a right hook.

No questions about her arm strength!

I don't know if this has been brought up, but did anyone let Mr. Peppers know that he's a 'marked man' seeing he went to Michigan?

I watched probably every throw Kessler made in 2017.
Yeah I think we're gonna see 'how wrong' I am, which I highly suspect will be 'not very'.

JMO.

I ain't fighting. Are you fighting?
I don't argue man, I just state the facts lol!

Well, the facts are he hasn't made a televised throw (that I'm aware of) in 2017, so I don't know what you're seeing.

lol my bad. 2016 I obviously meant.

I know,

*shrugs* I have no idea what this means in relation to our discussion at all.

I made specific comments; but your post above doesn't directly refer to anything that I wrote in my last post.

I don't know what you mean when you say 'clear picture'. But I do know that his velocity scientifically calculated velocity was 53.5 which they said was similar to Sam Bradford.

'College players being slower' doesn't have anything to do with his velocity and even if it did it would apply to all college QBs not just Watson.

So in short I can absolutely 'tell' that his measured velocity was 53.5.

And I would further add that his velocity could likely improve with hard work and tweak lower body mechanics.

But I digress....on to Peppers

I think Peppers is a freak athlete that will be learning how to play Safety in the NFL.

I don't think its an overstatement to say that Peppers brings Troy Polamalu level athleticism to the S position (and he's bigger then Troy).

However Troy w didn't enter the league needing to learn the position and Troy had rare instincts...but Peppers natural talent is off the charts.

Peppers will have a lot to learn in order to play a traditional Strong and especially a Free Safety role.

But, the good thing about Williams defense is that it already features a role similar to the role he played at Michigan. Gregg plays a lot of sub packages (nickel/dime ~70) of the snaps. Gregg used "safety" Mark Barron as a "Linebacker" in those subpackages and imho Peppers can walk in and fill that role in Gregg's defense day 1.

The question for me becomes....can you get 1st round value from a Nickel Safety? or does he have to develop into a Centerfield Free Safety to justify the selection in the 1st? And will they even try to develop him as Centerfield FS?

I read/heard somewhere that Pepper's wants to be like Earl Thomas....so maybe that could be his eventual transition...start off as nickel S ala Mark Barron or Deone Buchanon and transition into a Center FS ala Earl Thomas or Malcolm Jenkins.

j/c

I didn't pay much attention to Peppers' measurables and stuff ... how does he compare athletically to the top safeties?

I've heard some people say he's a GREAT athlete, and I've heard some people say he'll struggle to cover

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jabrill-peppers?position=ATH

The above link doesn't allow you to compare Peppers to other safeties because he is listed as a linebacker, but you can compare him to every player if you list him as an athlete.

It is not the best measure of his athleticism, but it is at least something to go off of.

His measurable are fine. Great actually. It's watching him try to cover that makes us concerned about his being able to cover.

But was he really asked to cover a lot?

I feel a good coach finds a way to use his players talents, not try to force a player to fit a mold. It will be interesting to see how Williams uses Peppers

Yes he was. He was ok in man but really bad in zone from what I saw. He lined up at LB, at slot, and at safety.

JC: Sashi Brown on Mike & Mike this morning referred to Peppers as learning the position of Strong Safety. He'd be involved on Special Teams as well, kick and punt returns.


But the guy who he compared his role to was Roman Harper of the New Orleans Saints (when Williams was there). Does anyone remember this? You would figure Mark Baron would be the easy guy for Sashi to compare what he is hoping from him, but Sashi goes Roman Harper. The Saints main LBs from what I remember were like Jonathan Vilma and Scott Fujita. Not Roman Harper.

I don't necessarily think we'll see Peppers in some Mark Baron role, like he played last year with the Rams where they only had one other LB that played all those snaps, and no one else seemed to (Besides Baron & the other LBer (Ogletree))

I just watched his Ohio State, UCF, Hawaii, and Rutgers games. (OSU was the latest game on draftbreakdown, and I'd watched the other tapes previously [Wiscy/Penn St/Colorado])

I can't say that I saw good zone coverage, but I can't really say that I saw bad zone coverage either.

I did see him get beat in man a couple of times, but once was against Curtis Samuel who if given time will get free from basically anyone. The other was an in breaking route by Baugh when he was playing with outside leverage.

I think a lot of people correlate not seeing him do something with him not being able to do something which isn't necessarily true. I think he could surprise some people.

I will say he is definitely electric with the ball in his hands, and was the guy the offense accounted for on every play. I can see why Tabor was pumped about him.

I see him in a Polamalu-like SS role and maybe some big slot in dime. May need some time to hone his instincts in zone, but as far as aggressively attacking, he's got that down pretty well.

I remember the days of Roman Harper, just not his play, per se.... but, if I recall, those were their best years.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Sashi makes that comparison probably because that is how Gregg (excellent name!) views him.... so, yes, Barron is the easy recent comparison that everyone can plainly see, it is more likely that Barron is something Williams tried based on his experiences with Harper.


I just did a little digging, and here is an article on Williams' creative use of Roman Harper


Edit: ... and, nevermind..... I guess that article doesn't really say much, except that it does point to Williams first doing this hybrid thing with Harper, so he was clearly recapturing it with Barron. Being that it isn't his first rodeo in trying to do this, and that he has about a decade of working with it under his belt now, I'm gonna say that I don't have any worries about how well it'll work - I think he's going to have Peppers do just what he wants, and I think Peppers is bright enough and willing enough to learn, and he absolutely is athletic enough.

I think it's going to be fun to watch!

The scary thing to me is when guys say "he'll be a great returner" when we draft a guy in the 1st round. The return game is already as insignificant as ever, and it'll probably continue down that path.

If Peppers can start, be effective as a defender, AND be a gadget/return guy, then it's a great pick. But if he's not the former, I don't see the latter as being all that valuable.

I remember Harper. Pretty good player for Saints and Panthers. I think he even went back to NO last year????

I remember him as a pretty physical guy who got after it pretty good. Solid would be the word I use to describe him, but not a real good cover guy or one who would be a ball hawk.

I think Peppers' best asset is his ability on special teams and gadget plays. I have thought that for quite awhile and have claimed he was overrated as a defender for quite some time. I had a 3rd round grade on him. I believe steve had a 4th round grade on him.

Initially, I'm looking forward most to seeing him on blitz packages.

Yeah, I think he'll do well there. I also think he will make some dazzling plays that will have fans and media types drooling.

My concern w/him is coverage ability. I really didn't like in the first two rounds for any team, but the Browns already had perhaps he worst secondary in the league and now we might be asking them to do more things in coverage because JP won't provide much help in that particular part of the game. That's rough, especially considering it's a passing league.

I've been wrong before and will be again. I hope this is one of those times.