DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

No Mac..

The argument is they did not value them the same way you do. You feel they are valuable now.. immediately. All consuming. They see value, but not in the long term, because they are building a team long term and are not so terribly concerned with short term goals. Yes.. Schwartz and Pryor would be nice, but not at the expense of younger players who will be part of the future. If they think a younger player, getting experience now, will be a better bet for the future of the team, than a player who may fit now, may only help get one or two extra wins, but may not be a part of future success, they will choose the younger player.

The Browns getting several extra wins last year, would have changed the whole futures draft this year. It may have helped a little in the present, but sacrificed the future. We have played that game, short term goals vs Long term future for years. Two winning seasons and no real advancement.

The Browns' playoff season was a classic example, expensive Free Agents, short term goal of Win now, and we did. Blew it all on one year, cap hell, and sold the future. Then we tried to do both, wasted drafts on halfway measures, and re-signing veterans. Trying to build without a tear down. 3 - 7 wins a year, except for 2007, and 2007 wqas not a playoff year.

So now, instead of building for short term goals, they have long term in mind. Tear it down so they can build it back up. Veterans are important, at a price, but if they won't be here by the time the rebuild is complete, then the price can not be too much.

Sounds like the military.. doesn't it ?

I don't agree at all and you make no sense.

"pennies" matter. If you don't watch your "pennies" then you end up in cap hell.

It's impossible (for anyone but you) to throw rocks at the FO about not offering enough "pennies" when in both cases with Pryor and MS - the Browns OFFERED BOTH PLAYERS MORE THAN ANY OTHER DAMN TEAM IN THE FREAKING NFL.

The number 1 priority is not to re-sign their better players at any cost. They have a team to manage. They appear to be doing it remarkably well for a front office with such little football experience. We don't know the MS facts - other than you apparently - and even if Schwartz leaving was a total and cataclysmic failure of the highest order (which it isn't in anyone else's eyes but yours) ..... if that's it. Then I have no problem. Every FO makes mistakes. "Harvard Boys" that know jack chit about football should no doubt be making a lot more mistakes in your eyes. So maybe you should be doing cartwheels and happy.

The new FO has been prefect. They've never made a mistake. It's almost like they're super heroes from Marvel Comics. Fans should never break down their moves an a case by case basis. Anyone who does that is an arch villain.

The new FO mistakes were offering over market contracts, they should have low balled and then paid less then what they valued the players after the players realized no one else valued them as much as posters on DawgTalkers!

Yes the new FO is perfect and has never made a mistake. According to some who can never admit otherwise.

WHo? Which posters think the FO is perfect? I have not seen anyone say that.

But see, those are the replies that irritate me. Nobody is saying these guys are perfect. What chaps my ass is when a few start blaming them no matter what we do. Last year we didn't sign Schwartz even though we offerd him the most. This year we sign a guard and people complain we paid too much.

They complain and claim we couldn't close the deal because we couldn't sign Pryor, even though we offered him the most money on a multi-year deal, yet he signs a 1 year deal for way less money. The guy is a simpleton. I hope he doesn't get hurt, and hope he has a great season, and hope teams don't pause in signing a 29 year old to a long term deal.

My thinking is maybe Schwartz and Pryor read this board and felt it best to get as far away from those buffoons as possible.

Regarding the FO. I think they've done more good than bad but that's me. I like the direction. They seem to have developed and learnt and seem to value the input of the football side and they all seem to be working together. All you can ask. You also need some luck, draft picks to pan out, etc etc etc. Fingers x'd.

Some??? That's silly...

No, the front office has no ability to walk on water, they have the same opportunity to succeed or fail as with any other office. Browns fans can and should be hopeful, as it is a far better choice than second guessing their impending failure and living your life as an nattering neigh bomb of negativity.

Example some continuity. Then look at the North, or all the other teams in the NFL, they seem to have more.
The "replacement player" can't "always" be seen as the upgrade, eventualy "somebody" has to be "your guy".

I don't blame "fans" for complaining that we are probably 32nd in continuity, but that's hard to prove, yet it sure "feels" like it.

I think you need to head to the produce section.

My standard is rooting for my team. I go to games. Do you?

Quit talking about standards. Your standards are about as low as it gets.

You said the FO didn't want them.

If they didn't want them.

Why did they offer them a contract.

I almost parted the Red Sea/moved a mountain/got mac to change his mind.

Some things just aren't going to happen.

I don't think it even gets to next year. I think this FO extends him very soon. When/If we do, I expect you to celebrate it just as much as you have Collins, Bitonio, Taylor, & Meder.

If they offer him more than any other team as they did with TP & MS and he refuses as TP & MS did not much more the FO can do.

You can not argue if they failed or not because you do not understand the standard by which they are are operating. You believe they want to win NOW, because you want to win NOW. The Front office is engaged in a total rebuild. Winning NOW, is not going to happen, the Front Office knows this. They extend younger players, who will be there when enough talent is assembled to win. The players who want to be paid for the sake of Big Money, to win NOW, are not an option. The Free Agents, our own or others, who will and can be here 3 + years down the road are offered contracts with that in mind.

We all criticized Banner and Lombardi because they tried to sign younger Free Agents and let older ones go, without a tear down. That was unsuccessful, a halfway measure. We all cringed because Farmer thought you could pick up wide receivers at WalMart, not at the NFL draft. Plus there were a lot of draft picks that put us back years in development. Manziel, when we could have had Teddy or Carr. Weeden, Gilbert instead of Julio Jones or Watkins, the list goes on.

The team was devoid of talent. Those still left wanted to be paid for now, and the new Front Office was charged to rebuild. How can you rebuild ? The last playoff team was a 1 year Free Agent group put together in 2002. The Front Office had to start from scratch. They had to keep who would take good offers, if not, they needed to be let go. If they did not want to be part of the solution, you were part of the problem. A fair value was set, and if the offer was not accepted, the player was let go. 14 players were drafted last year, part of a new build. A new start. A Browns team of the future. 10 more were added this year, 57 out of 89 players on the current Roster are 1st and second year players. A clear build for the future. Schwartz and Pryor were offered more money than any other NFL team, and decided not to take it, and the Browns moved on. Because of an already existing lack of talent, the Browns moved on. Because they were not yet in a win NOW mode, they did not pursue. Sashi states he wants to build a group who will be together for years. We were told the first several years of this rebuild would be Painful. This is a total rebuild, not a win now.

Would I have wanted to see Schwartz, Pryor and Mack stay? Yes. Am I disappointed they did not? Yes. Do I understand why the Front Office did not chase them down til Hell Froze over trying to keep them? Yes, and I'm ok with that because I see what the FO is trying to accomplish. A build for the future.

It's the same cast of characters talking the same nonsense over and over and over. You're better off just ignoring them. That's what I finally learned.

Hopefully. LOL

TP & MS left because Tim Couch. Holcomb sucks, folks just need to accept that he's not the answer.

and DA is better than Charlie Frye.. watch.. you'll see.. DA will be in the league long after Frye is gone :))

Not sure the point, but.. ah nevermind that's 10 years ago, this is about the current front office.

I bet car salesmen love to see you coming in the door.

Do you not see that doing your job on the filed is all about what YOU do and what YOU control? Do you recognize that players are allowed to turn down contract offers...even when that makes no sense?

If the QB makes the right read and the perfect throw but the ball is dropped...did the QB get the job done?

If the defender seals the edge and the RB breaks tackles up the gut, did the edge defender do his job?

I blocked my man as the play called-for, but the RB ran the wrong direction?

I made the guy the best offer he would/could get, but he didn't sign it.

j/ I've seen at least two posts asking which Posters think the FO is above criticism or never makes mistakes.

I have not seen any response, did I miss it?

You didn't miss it...and it won't be forthcoming either. "That" poster is the Glenn Winston of the DT Board members.

So, if I am reading mac's post correctly, we just keep upping the offer until it's accepted? That's getting the job done?

And the next free agent contract, do the same thing?

I'm not sure about the long-term success of the strategy.

Well, it's either that, or this:



Keep in mind, the job of every nfl team is to win the superbowl. 31 teams fail every year, so apparently 31 teams front offices are no good?

Yet you see, that's not what I've done at all. The fact is Schwartz came back before the FA signing period began to sign that deal. So yes, I see that he wasn't signed at that point as a mistake.

But if you have been reading any of my posts, I've said they learned from that mistake which is why they paid big money this year to sign OL to good money.

I see it as growing and learning. I'm not sure how that equals me being someone who bashes this FO. I've actually given them kudos for improvement and growth. But that's just not good enough for some people. They uphold every move they've made no matter what.

I actually consider my view quite positive. But I'm tired of the few that uphold everything they've done to this point. People who are rookies at their perspective jobs are going to make some mistakes. It's to be expected. All we can do is hope they grow and improve. Something that I believe I see form this group which gives me cause for optimism.

But you see, when people such as Vambo and Daman start acting like everything has been lollipops and roses, there comes a time I will call them on it. Just look at some of the responses. It's like if you don't say they're perfect, you kicked somebodies dog! lmao

But did Schwartz and his agent learn from their mistake?

maybe they had a failure to communicate?

mac... you never answered my question.

If we didn't want them.

Which is what you said.

Why did we offer them a contract.

ok i reed this post just to see the rants of the day. Mac and i go back along ways was it 2001 or later/ i really can't remember. we've disagreed and we'agreeded.mac is really a good guy at heart and a really true Browns fan.