DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

Great post dawg, keep up the good work

Mac, I agree with everything you say here.
It is my opinion that you look to bash this FO because of these decisions that were made in the past. If the Browns would have offered Ward, Sheard, Rubin and a couple other contracts but they walked away anyways, I would not agree.

But that is not the case, but it is what happened with Schwartz and Pryor.

The problem is, we've had several "FO's". You can discuss former FO's, or you can discuss the current one. As long as everyone, including yourself, don't try to lump them together. They've all worked independently from one another.

Another thing to recognize is that in some cases, not all, players simply want out of Cleveland. This is a place with a bad reputation. Sometimes it doesn't matter how well the FO handles it, there just is no resigning some players.

IIRC, Ward was being pretty vocal (negatively) around the time of his release. I don't think the Coaching staff or the FO (at the time) liked what he was putting out to the press. So... Goodbye TJ.

This is one of the flaws in Mac's argument about the failure of the FO. In his expressed view, every player who leaves did so because the FO messed up. There are variables out of the FO control that factor into any individual negotiation. If a player want's out, whether it's because of the stigma this organization carries (from decades of bad teams), or the particular wants and needs of the player, to the influence of agents, to personality conflicts between a player and others on the team, not every time a player leaves is because the FO messed up.

I'm not saying the FO never messes up. I am saying not every player leaving is the FO fault.

The current FO extended Bitonio, put Jamie Collins in a brand spanking new contract. I think they definitely get a deal done with Kirksey and we'll see but I think they want to sign Crowell to a fair deal.

Just say'n...

I'm aware I'm putting a target on my back with this but hey, I'm willing to take the hit...

Wilson won't need surgery, could be back by Late September early October. Not attributable to the FO but still good news.

FO gamble on Brantley has moved to a point where it's only about football now. Like any other Sixth round pick. Good job FO.

FO got Ogonjobi under contract today that's five of the ten drafted players. Good job FO.

Browns favorably represented by anonymous NFL evaluators

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/5/18/1...-nfl-evaluators



On Wednesday, Field Yates of ESPN posted an article in which he asked six NFL talent evaluators (described as NFL coaches or personnel men) to pick the league’s best offseason move. Moves made by your very own Cleveland Browns were represented in three of those evaluators’ choices.

The first one, coming from a “front-office executive,” praised Cleveland's offensive line investments, including the following quotes:

“I will say Cleveland's building of their offensive line. Not one move in particular but adding two starters in free agency and locking in their best young lineman. ... [If they struggle again this season], they won't be able to blame it on bad players up front.”

A "veteran defensive coach" chose the Browns drafting Jabrill Peppers, believe it or not, believing that Peppers being paired with Gregg Williams is a perfect fit and comparable to what Williams did with DB Lamarcus Joyner.

"Everybody kept saying, 'What is this guy?' After watching Gregg Williams' defense, I think that Peppers is the perfect fit for that Joyner role. I can just see [Williams] going there and thinking 'Peppers is a perfect guy in my defense.' ... Peppers can be a freelance playmaker. Let him make his own plays. That's who that guy is in that system. I think it will be a great team for him. Williams also plays plenty of zone defense, so Peppers won't always have to be in man-to-man."

The third Browns-related quote was more about the Houston Texans and how it works out positively from their perspective. This one came from another defensive coach:

"A lot of teams wouldn't have admitted it was an obvious mistake to sign him and would keep banging their heads against the wall, trying see if he finally gets it," the coach said. "[The Texans] have a championship-level defense, and if they can get any type of offensive production, they can compete in the AFC. The guy was a terrible QB ... he wasn't only not winning -- he was losing them games."

The non-Browns moves that were chosen included the Colts hiring GM Chris Ballard, the Packers changing their free agency habits, and the Vikings retooling their running game via the draft.

Why would that be putting a target on your back? LOL.........the posts on almost every thread are overwhelmingly positive. Heck, if you looked at this board and didn't know any better, one would think the Browns were a playoff team last year. LOL

Some of us try to give honest opinions and several guys rush in to tell us how wrong we are and how great things are.

NFL Front Office Power Rankings CBS Sports:

Now that the offseason is all but over, let's rank how each team's front office fared

4. Cleveland Browns

The Browns had another smart offseason. They didn't overthink the draft, choosing the consensus top pick in Myles Garrett. Getting a quarterback like DeShone Kizer at No. 52 overall could end up being the steal of the draft.

The Browns are functioning like a smart franchise. Weird.

Accolades continue to roll in for the Cleveland Browns

The Cleveland Browns continue to be appl...m recent years.

This is getting a bit embarrassing.

The Cleveland Browns have had the type of offseason that fans have been clamoring for since the team returned to the NFL in 1999.

First came free agency, where the Browns brought in center JC Tretter and right guard Kevin Zeitler to fix the offensive line.

Then came the 2017 NFL Draft, where the Browns added playmakers to the defense – Myles Garrett, Jabrill Peppers and Larry Ogunjobi, among others – and the offense – DeShone Kizer and David Njoku.

Related: Browns having a Top 5 offseason, per NFL.com

Put it all together and the Browns are having, according to NFL.com, one of the five best offseasons of any team. (The second-best offseason, actually, if you are scoring at home.)

But executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown and head coach Hue Jackson were not satisfied with just that work, oh no, they then went out and signed a group of undrafted free agents that earned an “A-” from Bleacher Report:

Safety Kai Nacua of Brigham Young is a rangy and athletic ball hawk who measured third among all safeties in the this year’s draft in the SPARQ metric. It’s a guarantee that tidbit didn’t escape the attention of Cleveland’s analytically driven front office. Channing Stribling is a long cornerback at a position where the Browns need both quantity and quality. Stribling posted second-team all-conference honors as Peppers’ teammate at Michigan last year.

Kenneth Olugbode is a hard-nosed young linebacker who improved his run defense grade from 33.8 in 2015 to 85.6 last season, per Pro Football Focus. Of course, there’s a reason these young men weren’t drafted. For Nacua, it was concerns about his tackling. Stribling’s long speed isn’t great. Olugbode is undersized and can be overwhelmed at the point of attack.

But even the Browns’ UDFAs appear to have been signed with a particular plan in mind. A script the braintrust is sticking too.

Related: Browns sign a pair of defensive backs

This is all great, of course, and it certainly beats the alternative of Browns fans shaking their heads and wondering what fresh hell the team has cooked up for them next.

But none of it matters if everyone – from owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam down through the front office, coaching staff and the last man on the practice squad – doesn’t continue all working in the same direction to turn the franchise around.

There will be plenty of time to be upset and question just what the Browns are up to in the coming months, but for now it feels good for fans to be able to sit back and realize that for the first time in far too long the team appears to be in good hands.

Vers, I get the whole show me first concept. There is also the innovator thinking build it first be their first. I get this comes at a price. There is also a price waiting.

I believe Sashi is on to something here. Haslam put together a concept requiring patience. Here lies, in my opinion, team's biggest hurdle. I see a concept being built. To move this forward, we must continue seeing egos kept in check.

I am no way asking you change your way of thinking. People are guided by whatever means makes one feel comfortable. I simply state there are other views that achieve equal results. Being open minded has it rewards.

I do understand there are posters who abuse both sides! Beer helps!!! Cheers!

The way I have always viewed the team and continue to do this years is hope for the best, realizing that the proof will be revealed between the lines of Sunday.

My natural inclination in almost every circumstance, be it football or, life is to hope for the best and prepare so as not to be devastated if things don't turn out the way I'd like.

And Mac says nothing. SMH. Hmmmm.

And Mac says NOTHING. Again. SMH. Hmmmm.

Thread deleted. Permanently.

Oh wait. Mac's on Vacation.

He hasn't been heard from since exposing the Trump/Russia kickback conspiracy!

On to a new agenda.



Sorry for bumping this sorry thread.

Why?

Why?

Most of the soap box is used to bash the FO....you know, we need a experienced GM over operations.

That and it has been used to talk about former players. We were discussing Courtney Brown and Tim Couch.


You need ask why?


Again, sorry for the bump folks, but friend asked a question.

I answer questions when I see them.

The thread is stupid and you bumped it. That is why I asked "why."

And furthermore..........the positive posters are just as ridiculous as mac, and you are one of them.

This could not be further from the truth.

Peter King has Browns at No. 31 in NFL power rankings
71
by Chris Pokorny@DawgsByNature May 22, 2017, 8:59am EDT
link


In Peter King’s Monday Morning Quarterback column today, he included power rankings for the 17-32 teams in the NFL. His rankings for the 1-16 teams will be unveiled on Tuesday. As I eagerly descended down the list, I became less and less pleased with every team name that wasn’t the Browns. That’s what this optimistic offseason has done to me — heck, we’ve got guys listing our front office as the 4th best in the league, so can you blame me?

It wasn’t until I got to No. 31 that the Browns appeared, though. At least Cleveland wasn’t last (that spot belongs to the New York Jets).

After listing the Browns' additions, subtractions, and coaching changes, King explained why he has Cleveland at No. 31:

In 14 draft rounds over the past two years, the Browns have made a league-high 24 picks, and so it’s impossible to judge how those players, particularly with a new defensive look and a unsettled quarterback depth chart, will play. Progress for the Browns would be 5-11, and exiting this season having some idea if Kizer or Cody Kessler (who will get the long first shot to play quarterback) is good enough to prevent GM Sashi Brown from re-entering the quarterback market next year.

Two things I see as reasons Cleveland will be at least slightly improved from the team with 18 double-digit losses in the past two years: The Zeitler-infused offensive line is improved—thank God the Browns haven’t traded franchise left tackle Joe Thomas—and Williams will help make the defense a difficult Sunday for foes all season. Progress is what this franchise needs.

King also calls the team's first three games (home against Pittsburgh, on the road against Baltimore, and then in Indianapolis) their most decisive stretch of the season, saying that if the Browns go 0-3, then it's "time to play for Sam Darnold."

I don’t know about that early, but I assume the point is that it’d signal a lack of contention for Cleveland and they might as well tank again for draft position. Sorry, I went through that once and accepted it, but I never want to go through that again.

That post - and the one before it - must be a painful read for some posters on here. Whattayaknow...amazing what new leaders can do after 12-15 months on the job.

NFL Power Rankings, Pt. 1: Starting at the Bottom

MON MAY. 22, 2017
link


31. CLEVELAND BROWNS

Additions: The offensive line is 40 percent new—G Kevin Zeitler (Cincinnati) and center J.C. Tretter are upgrades. Zeitler, in particular, is a top-level guard with some fight to him … WR Kenny Britt will be a vertical threat, but he’s not a premier player … Brock Osweiler and DeShone Kizer bring weirdness to the QB depth chart … The draft delivered two players who should contribute on opening day: pass-rusher Myles Garrett and safety/linebacker/returner Jabrill Peppers.

Subtractions: Browns continued to lose valuable pieces in the off-season, when a contract tiff led to WR Terrelle Pryor signing with Washington … WR Andrew Hawkins, TE Gary Barnidge, QB Josh McCown and T Austin Pasztor all departed.

Key coaching/front-office moves: Ray Horton out as the coordinator of the 31st-ranked NFL defense, Gregg Williams in (yet another iteration of a strange but impactful career). “We want to see the Browns be different than they’ve ever been,” coach Hue Jackson said, and that will start with a chippier defense.

Decisive schedule span: First three weeks—vs. Pittsburgh, at Baltimore, at Indianapolis. With an 0-3 start, it’s time to play for Sam Darnold. If the Browns steal one or two, that’ll give this franchise hope for a six-win season, not two.

Why I have the Browns 31st: In 14 draft rounds over the past two years, the Browns have made a league-high 24 picks, and so it’s impossible to judge how those players, particularly with a new defensive look and a unsettled quarterback depth chart, will play. Progress for the Browns would be 5-11 and exiting this season having some idea if Kizer or Cody Kessler (who will get the long first shot to play quarterback) is good enough to prevent GM Sashi Brown from re-entering the quarterback market next year. Two things I see as reasons Cleveland will be at least slightly improved from the team with 18 double-digit losses in the past two years: The Zeitler-infused offensive line is improved—thank God the Browns haven’t traded franchise left tackle Joe Thomas—and Williams will help make the defense a difficult Sunday for foes all season. Progress is what this franchise needs.

Most important factor to this team this year: DeShone Kizer. Can he play? Will he get a chance to show Jackson and GM Sashi Brown they shouldn’t make a big play for Jimmy Garoppolo or the next great college quarterback next spring?

Browns prediction of 10 words or less: Thoughts of Garoppolo dance through Hue’s head after three wins.

If they had resigned Pryor they probably would have been ranked about middle of the pack...around 15-16.

I am not negative and I was responding to peen's insults. Somehow a reply to an insult is the one challenged. LOL........have a good one.

Until the Browns go 8 and 8 and .500 in the division I cannot believe in this front office to get the team on the right track
Some Will believe what ever the FO spins

Pryor alone good for 15 spots?

So we should fire everyone that doesn't go at least 8-8?

(I know that's not what you're saying)

But it reads as if we go 7-9 this year, then you think they suck.

I don't like putting hard line win totals on things.

Not every single season is in a vacuum. Should you try to win a SB every year? Why duh. But understanding that you probably won't. And focusing on trying to get better. While putting the best out there right now, is all you can do.

7 and 9 isnt good enough in New England Pittsburgh Atlanta
Why should It be here?

Because we are in the early stages of a rebuild, and the Pats and Steelers are not. You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment (or just laying the grown work to be grumpy).

Realistic progress for this team is probably 5-11/6-10. They were 1-15 last year it isn't going to occur overnight.

I think 4 wins will be a monumental achievement for this team. No QB = no success.

you did i seen it.

Could most or all of those bounces be tied to changes or stabilization of the QB position for each of those teams? I'm not sure, but quite of few of the most recent teams on your list can.