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Those who claim it "honors" turn out to be wrong. The family of the man it claims it "honors" actually remains appalled by Wahoo.

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INDIAN ISLAND, Maine — Nearly everyone on this small reservation bordered by the fast-moving Penobscot River knows the story of Louis Sockalexis, the son of a tribal chief whose extraordinary skill on the baseball diamond made him a national sensation more than a century ago.

But mixed with that pride is lingering resentment over the Cleveland Indians logo of Chief Wahoo, a toothy, grinning caricature. Sockalexis, a member of the Penobscot tribe, is believed to have inspired the team’s nickname and logo.

Now, Major League Baseball officials are pressing Cleveland to move away from the logo, and the Penobscots are rooting them on.

“I think it’s demeaning,” said Chris Sockalexis, who is related to the former star outfielder and is the tribe’s historic preservation officer. “It’d be nice to have that all go away.”

Perhaps it will, particularly at a time when racial slurs at Fenway Park prompted a chorus of condemnation.

Native Americans have protested the logo for years, but the effort has taken on greater urgency since October, when Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred began new discussions with the Indians.

Cleveland already had relegated the cartoonish emblem to a secondary but still conspicuous status, and made a block “C” its primary logo. But that concession does not satisfy many of the 550 people on Indian Island, about 15 miles north of Bangor.

“It’s about stepping up and doing the right thing for people,” said tribal historian James Eric Francis Sr.

There is a Sockalexis bingo hall here named for Louis and his famed running cousin, Andrew, who finished second at the Boston Marathon in 1912 and 1913, as well as fourth in the marathon at the 1912 Olympics in Stockholm.

There is Louis’s gravestone, sculpted with two crossed baseball bats, in the middle of a sloping, wooded cemetery. A weathered baseball, torn along a seam, has been placed atop the marker for the first known Native American to play in the major leagues.

Sockalexis starred in baseball, football, and track at the College of the Holy Cross and transferred to the University of Notre Dame before joining Cleveland, where his phenomenal debut in 1897 apparently prompted the Cleveland Spiders to use “Indians” that year as an informal team nickname.

The team officially adopted “Indians” in 1915 and the logo appeared in 1947. A World Series title followed in 1948, but the reigning American League champs are still waiting for the next one.

“Let the curse remain,” said Chris Sockalexis.

Many Penobscots think a change is long overdue, if only because what is offensive to some should matter to others. The tribal council petitioned the Cleveland Indians in 2000 to discontinue the logo, but the team never responded, said Ed Rice, who wrote a biography of Louis Sockalexis.

The Cleveland Indians, who come to Fenway Park on July 31 for a three-game series, said they realize the logo is a lightning rod.

“We certainly understand the sensitivities of the logo — those who find it insensitive and also those fans who have a longstanding attachment to its place in the history of the team,” said Bob DiBiasio, the team’s senior vice president of public affairs. “We fully expect to work with the commissioner throughout the remainder of this season on finding a solution that is good for the game and our organization.”

Major League Baseball officials added that they are making progress on the logo and are “confident that a positive resolution will be reached.”

Many Penobscots are watching.

“It’s about time it changed,” said 32-year-old David Soctomah, a diesel mechanic. “It’s derogatory and it’s pretty much ignorance. We like to hold a lot of pride in ourselves.”

The latest move against the logo doesn’t concern some Penobscots, including Justin Francis, a 33-year-old who blew away the residue of another Maine winter from the damp earth near Sockalexis’s grave.

“I’ve never had a problem with any of that,” said Francis, who played high school basketball and football for the nearby Old Town Indians before the name was changed to the Coyotes. “Maybe because I grew up in sports, and that was always there.”

Still, Francis knows the legend of Sockalexis, who appeared in 94 major-league games but endured a hail of ugly abuse from fans — war whoops, thrown objects, and racial epithets, among them — only 21 years after the Sioux defeated Custer at Little Big Horn.

Despite the taunts, Sockalexis’s extraordinary skill transformed baseball’s first-known Native American player into a national sensation, 50 years before Jackie Robinson signed with the Brooklyn Dodgers and broke the color line for blacks.

“I unhesitatingly pronounce him a wonder,” former New York Giants manager John Montgomery Ward declared in the spring of 1897.

Sockalexis also helped pave the way for early Native American athletes such as Jim Thorpe. Rice, the biographer, called Sockalexis “bigger than life. Here is a mythic man who did mythic things.”

His feats included throwing a baseball 413 feet at Holy Cross, a stunning heave that was measured by professors there and considered a national record.

Sockalexis was a superstar at the Worcester college and in the Maine summer leagues, and he continued the hot streak with Cleveland — batting nearly .400 in the early stages of the 1897 season and drawing crowds wherever he played.

“He is hooted and bawled at by the thimble-brained brigade on the bleachers,” the Sporting Life newspaper wrote that May. “Despite all this handicap, the red man has played good, steady ball and has been a factor in nearly every victory thus far.”

But excessive drinking quickly took its toll, and Sockalexis played sparingly toward the end of the season, though he managed to finish with a .338 average. He played a few more games with Cleveland in 1898 and 1899 before dropping to the minor-league circuit in New England, including stints with Hartford, Lowell, and Waterbury, Conn.

Sockalexis’s last minor-league game came in 1907, patrolling center field for Bangor. Six years later, he died of a heart attack at age 42 while working as a logger in northern Maine.

The Sockalexis legend has endured — at least in these parts. His starry statistics still matter to the tribe, which has lived along the river for at least 10,000 years, Chris Sockalexis said. But what matters more is gaining wider recognition of the dignity that Penobscots and other Native Americans deserve, tribal members said.

“Not only are we indigenous to this country, but we also have sovereignty,” James Francis said.

Many Native Americans object when sports fans dress as Indians, beat drums, and perform the “tomahawk chop” at baseball and football games, Sockalexis added. Even though the rituals can seem harmless to others, he said, a sense of context is missing.

“It might be like me going to a rock concert in blackface,” he said.

The context of Chief Wahoo has been blurred over time — a caricature created when racial sensitivity was an afterthought for many Americans, if thought about at all.

But its origins lead back to a superb young athlete who came from an obscure and unlikely place. And that’s the legacy, not a grossly distorted and widely marketed image, that the Penobscots choose to stress.

In the meantime, Francis said, “we’re not going anywhere.”


No one is calling you racist, prejudice, etc. if you wear Wahoo or don't see a problem with it. It was once acceptable by American standards to demean people through poor word choice, but that doesn't make it right.

No one would support a caricature of an oppressed culture. Just look at the asinine portrayls of African Americans during early 1900s cartoons. Those fell out of favor, and so should Wahoo.

Link

Another Link

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Solution: Design a new mascot with a local Native American group. How hard is that? I'm not sure it the new mascot should get called Wahoo, but give them a tasteful name.

The above solution is what Florida State does with the Seminoles. Why can't we do it?

Last edited by RocketOptimist; 05/10/17 02:24 PM.
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Ut oh. Cue the righteous indignation rants. wink grin

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Quote by Dave on May 7, 2017:

“Cleveland Buckeyes would be my frontrunner for a new name if MLB forces us to get rid of the name "Indians" along with the Chief.”



“That uni would be fine too.”



Yeah sure. If the issue is forced. It does have some tradition. And nice uniform.



Me too.

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I dont care if those people are offended. I grew up with Chief Wahoo, so to hell with them.


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Maybe we should be careful to not offend those who once owned slaves.

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Maybe we should be careful to not offend those who once owned slaves.
I am not real good with color selections, but just to be clear, that font is kind of purplish...... i think


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It takes a wuss of a human being to be offended by something so silly. It is the nickname of a baseball team.

This politically correctness has to stop!


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Originally Posted By: Day of the Dawg
It takes a wuss of a human being to be offended by something so silly. It is the nickname of a baseball team.

This politically correctness has to stop!


People aren't upset about the name. They've made it quite clear they're upset about Chief Wahoo though.

I crossed off Chief Wahoo off all my Indians gear years ago.

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Originally Posted By: Day of the Dawg
It takes a wuss of a human being to be offended by something so silly. It is the nickname of a baseball team.

This politically correctness has to stop!


It's not the nickname. I have no problem w/the name "Indians." It's this BS:


Ain't no Indian looks like that.

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Quote:
It takes a wuss of a human being to be offended by something so silly.


Is blackface just silly?

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We could replace the Chief with a Snowflake and rename the team Lily Livers.

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Would you be okay with a caricature of an African American individual as the mascot of a sports team?

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Not my team. I like Chief Wahoo.

Last edited by 40YEARSWAITING; 05/10/17 10:48 PM.
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I think the Carolina Panthers should change their name to the Carolina Confederates and use this as their logo:





Because, it is obviously representative of all white Americans.

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Would you support a demeaning caricature of a marginalized race/culture as a sports logo?

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That statement is Racist and I don't even care. Nope, not even a spark. How can that be?

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Would you support a demeaning caricature of a marginalized race/culture as a sports logo?


Marginalized? You telling me there are folks who allow themselves to be marginalized? Why would they do that?
Doesn't everybody have something exceptional to offer?
Everybody I know does.

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That can't be right. Surely the Carolina Panthers would represent the Black Panthers.

Sorry I dont have a clever image or desire to find one. This whole topic is stupid. SJW have a rep for a reason. Maybe Rocket will be championing Otherkin next.

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You are talking to people who think Chief Wahoo represents an entire people. We know he represents our Cleveland Indians.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
You are talking to people who think Chief Wahoo represents an entire people. We know he represents our Cleveland Indians.


Actually, you are talking to people who care about people and do not like unfair, sterotypical labels assigned to a group of minorities for the general amusement of the majority.

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Sorry, I don't "get" furries.

But hey, as long as it's consenting adults not hurting others or animals...does it matter?

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Shhhhh....he just wants attention.

He has no desire in discussing this topic, along with many other issues, in a rational manner.

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Do you feel its ok for young teens to identify as furries or otherkin? Because these kinds of kids are on my games. In fact, there are other games dedicated to them.

Are you SJW about their cause as well? If they sexually/socially identify as an animal, its ok? When they are young and forming their social/gender/sexual identity?

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Do as you want. I may not understand it, but they're not hurting anyone.

Just don't go hurting others, and don't do anything that looks to impede upon the civil rights of all Americans.

Edit:

Why are we talking about this on DawgTalkers? Especially in a thread about Wahoo.

This is like the time where we had to talk about how marrying a same-sex partner isn't like marrying an inanimate object.

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When you have kids you might feel differently.

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You'd be surprised, Eve.

Life in these 27 years exposed me to many different individuals from a plethora of different walks of life.

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We are having this topic because Im curious how far your SJW tentacles go.

If you encourage this sort of thing:

http://otherkinandtherianconfessions.tumblr.com

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Here I thought our resident brony, Swish, was the fury of the group. Turns out it was Eve. Weird times we live in.

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Im not. Im just running websites with all kinds of weirdo kids on it.

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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Im not. Im just running websites with all kinds of weirdo kids on it.


Yeah. And Swish just watches MLP for "his kids".

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Sorry but not sorry if I rally against unfair treatment of oppressed groups who do no harm.

Call me all the labels you wish!

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Well, Im paid money to run these websites. If Swish does it for free, he isnt doing it right.

LOL

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Sorry but not sorry if I rally against unfair treatment of oppressed groups who do no harm.

Call me all the labels you wish!


Duelly noted. You support kids identifying as animals.

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lol imagine being so upright that you care what a handful of people do with their own time. As long as they aren't pairing up and attacking the much weaker humans, who cares? They obviously hate humans, let them live their fantasy. We all think the Browns are going to turn it around. And I still do, but I also thought that for the past decade. How much of my life has been spent to Cleveland sports? Helps me get through life. I bet if a fury knew anything about sports, they'd say we were just as unreasonable.

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From a business standpoint, I dont care what these kids do on my website as long as its PG13.

From a human standpoint, I find it very sad that these kids feel so left out of their own lives, like so rejected, that the only thing they cling to is identifying as an animal because its the only non judgemental thing they know.

Its very sad indeed.

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The Redskins name controversy is interesting because that name, in modern usage, is often considered to be taboo/disparaging. There are counterarguments to that as well which is why it makes for a good discussion.

Chief Wahoo is quite different though. We're not talking about anything associated with slurs; it's a goofy caricature at worst. How does that negatively affect people's lives in any way? How is it really different than caricatures of Irish/Celtic people in sports, for example the Notre Dame Fighting Irish and the Boston Celtics?



I always had a hard time spinning a basketball on one finger. flamingmad

Prediction: if the effort to remove Chief Wahoo from the Indians is successful, the social justice types will then focus their attention on making the Indians change their name, regardless of their current position that they only find Wahoo offensive. They will invent a reason to be offended by the name-- cultural appropriation, perhaps.

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Obviously you missed a good 150 years of genocide against Native Americans. The genocide remain(ed) justified due to showing Native groups as uncivilized, goofy, looking different, and remained dehumanized through such cartoon portrayals.

So I'm guessing you're okay with blackface?

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DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Louis Sockalexis' descendants tell Boston Globe 'enough is enough' regarding Indians' Chief Wahoo logo

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