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Cody keeps popping up in other threads. I think we should talk about Cody here and talk about the other dudes in their threads. I get a lot of grief on here because I don't think Cody challenges defenses down the field [and for the 1,000th time] I ain't just talking about bombs. I have stated that the NE figured out how to stop us and other teams followed suit. Heck, I said it BEFORE the NE game. NE was the first team to do it and other teams copied that game plan. We were leading the league in rushing entering the NE game and they held us to 27 yards rushing. They had a two-pronged strategy. Stop the running game at all costs and take away Pryor by bracketing him w/two guys............which means that Cody had to beat them w/vertical passing plays. Some guys say I have an agenda. Not sure what that agenda is other than to be honest. Some guys say I make stuff up. Those who have known me since 2001 know that isn't true. You might not agree w/my opinions, but those who know me know I am not a liar. If that is not enough...........I'll leave you w/this article and ask you look at the comments from Hue, Bitonio, and Pryor.........and then come back and tell me I am still making things up: Browns rookie quarterback Cody Kessler will have chance to respond to coach Hue Jackson’s challenges in prime time against RavensBy Nate Ulrich Beacon Journal sports writer Published: November 9, 2016 - 04:44 PM | Updated: November 10, 2016 - 03:51 PM Browns coach Hue Jackson has gone from telling fans to trust him about the franchise’s decision to draft Cody Kessler in the third round to making it clear the onus is now on the rookie quarterback to earn the organization’s trust as it evaluates whether he can be a long-term starter. Kessler will get his next opportunity to prove himself when the Browns (0-9) face the Baltimore Ravens (4-4) at 8:25 p.m. Thursday at M&T Bank Stadium. The prime-time AFC North matchup will be nationally televised on NFL Network. It’ll be Kessler’s seventh start but the first since Jackson made a blatant attempt to push the quarterback’s buttons this week by publicly issuing challenges. The coach wants Kessler to put the NFL’s only winless team on his back and carry it to victory. He also wishes the young quarterback would be more aggressive with downfield passing. Losing a franchise-record 12th consecutive game with Sunday’s 35-10 defeat against the Dallas Cowboys prompted Jackson to declare there were no positives to take away from the setback, including Kessler’s performance. He added, “the quarterback’s job is to get the team a win.” Kessler subscribes to the theory that a team’s win-loss record is a quarterback statistic. “I have heard that since I have been playing the game,” said Kessler, who went 19-of-27 passing for 203 yards and a touchdown with a rating of 104.4 against the Cowboys. “As a quarterback, that is the biggest thing you focus on is your win-loss record, and that is on me 100 percent in the aspect of finding ways to win. I take full responsibility for that. “At the end of the day, the stats may be what they are but you can’t focus on that. You focus on the win-loss record, and that is something that I have taken very seriously throughout my career. That is the biggest thing that I focus on, whether it was in high school, even little league, high school to college and now to the NFL.” So even though Kessler has completed 67.5 percent of his passes for 1,150 yards and five touchdowns with one interception and a rating of 96.1, those numbers are overshadowed by his record of 0-6 as a starter. “You play the game to win,” Kessler said. “That is what your focus should be. We have come up short on things, but you have to continue to keep striding through that and keep doing everything you can to help the team win.” The Browns will set the franchise record for the longest single-season losing streak if they fall to the Ravens. Their defense is horrible, ranking 31st out of 32 NFL teams in yards (421.7) and points (30.3) allowed per game. So will Jackson putting it all on Kessler’s shoulders crush the University of Southern California product? “I am not trying to stretch Cody and make him do more than what he is capable of doing, but if they score 30, we have to score 31,” Jackson said. “We have to find a way. That is the life of playing quarterback in the National Football League, and that is the life of the head coach of a team. Your job is to win. “Now, he is a young guy, a young player. There are going to be different stresses that you have to deal with, and this is one of them at this position. I think he gets that, but I think he has always had that mechanism to deal with that, whether it was at USC or whether it is here now. That is what comes with it, and we accept that. I think he does and understands it and deals with it as well as anybody.” Kessler’s completion percentage ranks fifth in the NFL. His passer rating is tied for 11th. He has thrown just one interception in 160 attempts. Yet he’s also tied for 31st in touchdown passes, and the Browns rank 29th with 18.7 points per game. Jackson believes Kessler must take more risks with deep passing to lead the Browns to victory. In the coach’s opinion, increasing the odds of an interception is a necessary evil in attempting to create more offense. “Are you asking ‘Do I want to see the ball go down the field more?’ Yes, I do,” Jackson said. “I think it needs to. That is the way we in this offense score more points. Cody has done a good job of distributing the ball and he has done a good job of putting the ball in the right places for the most part. “But he knows now that in the National Football League you have to sometimes take a few more chances to score points because the defenses are too good. They will give you certain things because they know you will take them and try to beat you in the other things. We have to always stay aggressive and push the ball when we can because it gives us a chance to have big plays.” According to ProFootballFocus.com, Kessler is one of the best passers in the NFL at the intermediate level (10-19 yards). However, he ranks 31st of 33 quarterbacks in deep passing adjusted completion percentage (4-of-16, or 25 percent, for 138 yards on throws of 20 yards or more). A lack of prototypical arm strength was the biggest knock on Kessler throughout the pre-draft process. The Browns knew it, but they picked him anyway. Now Jackson is calling on Kessler to deliver in a questionable facet of his game. “We have had some calls in that last game for the long ball, and unfortunately, it was not there or something happened,” Kessler said. “I missed one to [rookie wide receiver] Corey [Coleman] or missed one to him in the end zone as well. But we are calling them and we are trying to take the shots and make them, but that is on me. I have to be more accurate with the long ball and be more accurate with getting the ball to the right guy.” Receiver Terrelle Pryor said, “We’ve got to be able to connect deep. We’ve got to be able to scare guys deep. We’ve got guys that can run, myself and Corey, so we do got to make it happen.” None of this will be easy for Kessler against the Ravens. They have the NFL’s No. 2 defense (298.8 yards allowed per game). They’re first in fewest first downs surrendered (123), second in third-down conversion percentage allowed (32.5) and third in three-and-outs forced (27). “They try to do so many different looks that can confuse you, and you have to be on high alert at all times,” Kessler said. “If they give you a different look, you can’t freak out and then try to change something. You have to just stay calm and stick to your rules.” Nate Ulrich can be reached at nulrich@thebeaconjournal.com. Read the Browns blog at www.ohio.com/browns. Follow him on Twitter at www.twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ and on Facebook www.facebook.com/abj.sports.http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns...ravens-1.726063
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I think he makes smart decisions in the pocket.
There's going to be some struggles, I think the Browns are going through a big rebuilding year, especially on offense.
I think people will call me crazy for saying I think the roster is worse today than it was the last 2 months of the past season.
Even if I'm wrong, one has to understand there is a big transition to new players in positions all over the field, so there will be a learning time for these guys to really gel together.
And that's going to reflect on the starting QB, early on, and that may be Kessler.
So I expect him to start out worse, even if his game isn't worse.
But I still think he's the best option so far.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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I am by no means in the camp that Cody is the franchise savior far from it, however, I was rather impressed with his poise at times last season. I thought for being a 3rd round QB (whom most thought should not have been picked so high) that didn't exactly get the greatest of players to try to impress with in preseason did some positive things and at times showed he was a mid round QB with negatives. I have never thought a QB needed the biggest arm to succeed. I think its more about what is upstairs in his head. I tend to look at QB's like a pitcher. You don't have to throw a 98mph fastball to get the job done as long as you know how to set the batter up and how to paint the corners. If Cody worked on his grasp of the playbook, the anticipations of where the plays are going, who will be where and how the defense is playing (reads) then he can be more than a solid QB. There are plenty of QB's who have had plenty of success in this league and still do. I am not about to label Cody an all pro by any means but I am not sure I am ready to label him as only bench material either. I thought his pocket presence overall was a bright spot. I thought he did rather well under center and understood the basics of how to run his huddle and his audibles. I am not gonna say much about his protection of the football cus that is a double edged sword. He didn't turn the ball over through the air which is great but you can certainly argue it was because he didn't do much challenging of the defense so yeah not a strong suit. I just expect to see him grow. That's all I want to see from him. I want to see if he can make up for his avg arm and be able to own the defense and his own playbook to exploit the things he see's. I want to see him play with more confidence, which I think him getting that experience and getting abused a bit should allow him to exude more on the field. I suppose I don't think too harshly of the kid cus he wasn't supposed to play to begin with then he gets thrown out there so I expected mistakes and faults but overall I thought he did well and look forward to see what he learned. At least he wasn't the "happy dancer" Quinn nor the "I can't throw under 10 yards" Anderson. LOL 
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I'll admit that he exceeded expectations in my own mind, pretty vastly in fact. He does have deficiencies that will be tough to overcome, but I think he will have a good career as a backup/fill-in (like Brian Hoyer).
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I think Cody exceeded everyone's expectations last year while also exhibiting some fundamental issues: Underwhelming arm strength and not throwing the ball deep to force defenses to cover deeper. While the crowding the line factor may have impacted the run game - I personally think the injuries to the OL were at least as big a factor.
I am expecting Cody to surprise people again this year. I believe 100% that the guy is smart enough to realize that in order to be a QB in the NFL (his goal) he needs to throw the ball deep ... and I am hopeful his arm will be noticeably stronger too. Not expecting Mathew Stafford - just more zip and pop than last year. . . . whether the willingness to throw deep and the increase in arm strength is enough to make him 'the' guy - I don't know and it's a pretty long shot. But I am rooting for him to start every game, not because I want to baby Kizer - because I'd love to see Cody be good enough to keep Kizer on the bench.
In terms of a % chance of that happening - I think I like it more than most. I am going to say 1/5 chance - 20%.
Last edited by mgh888; 05/15/17 07:15 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Just how many concussions did he have his first year on the field ?
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I know everyone wanted to score more points last year, and completing more deep balls is one way to do that. However, I think people put too much of the onus for it not happening on Kessler. Yes, we had Pryor and Coleman as guys with deep speed, but just having speed doesn't make you a great deep ball receiver. Then as was mentioned teams started to bracket Pryor, and Coleman broke his hand. Would we be better off if Kessler had thrown more deep incompletions/INTs?
I look at Cardale Jones the National Championship year and the year after. With Devin Smith, he looked like a great deep ball passer. Without him, he landed on the bench. Cardale also had solid blocking and a running game.
Deep routes take time to develop, and it wasn't something the Browns OL often provided over the course of the season. It's been said he holds the ball too long, but then deep routes take more time. The more time involved, the more chances for something to go wrong.
Hopefully with a healthy DeValve and adding Njoku, we can threaten the seams and hold safeties in the middle better. Hopefully the OL will protect more consistently. Hopefully the defense will stop opposing teams more often and we can be more balanced on O and play action can be more successful.
Football is a team sport. It takes every guy on the field to be successful. Unfortunately, the QB tends to get the lion's share of the credit or the blame. Last year Kessler got a good bit of experience with the latter. Hopefully, the whole team improves and he can get more of the credit this season.
I'm not trying to say he was great last year, but the guy who went 1-1 in the Draft looked worse. Wentz really wasn't good with the deep ball either. Lynch really didn't play. Dak looked great, but I'm not sure he could have asked for a better situation.
Here's hoping Cody's off season work pays off, and a better situation allows him to show it.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Here's the bottom line with Kessler...
Is he willing to make real NFL throws? If he is willing, then does he have the ability to?
I think people are mischaracterizing Kessler`s issue from last year. We don't actually know if he has the arm strength or not. The bottom line is he refused to make NFL throws. This is what Hue was upset about. He needs to make a read, snap the ball, drop back, plant, throw. Sometimes that means throwing a guy open. Sometimes that means putting the ball on a string. Sometimes that means throwing into traffic.
It is inconceivable that every time Kessler dropped back that every WR was covered. That's just not the way the NFL works. Kesslers comfort zone was backyard football so he created backyard football. Don't make the throw you're supposed to make, let everything break down, scramble drill...and if you survive the initial seconds of that, then it's much easier to complete a pass because WRs tend to be wide open by then. But it fails more than works and the WRs and OL end up taking the blame.
It was Charlie Frye all over again and excruciating to watch.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Deep routes take time to develop, and it wasn't something the Browns OL often provided over the course of the season. I think this point here is heavily neglected/overlooked. And I too agree big time on the David and Seth causing the safeties to play a little tighter/more inline to the middle. As Hue said, and a direct quote: They have to take it from [Kessler]. They better take it from him because I know him — he is not going to give it up. Give Cody a pocket where he where can use his mechanics to make a throw, this offseason where he worked out hard supposedly and a decent running game to help open up some play action/deep attacks, and I think Cody will be able to distribute to ball long (which seems to be the biggest knock on him.)
Last edited by Dawg_LB; 05/15/17 07:31 AM.
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It is inconceivable that every time Kessler dropped back that every WR was covered. That's just not the way the NFL works. Kesslers comfort zone was backyard football so he created backyard football. Don't make the throw you're supposed to make, let everything break down, scramble drill...and if you survive the initial seconds of that, then it's much easier to complete a pass because WRs tend to be wide open by then. But it fails more than works and the WRs and OL end up taking the blame.
It was Charlie Frye all over again and excruciating to watch,
Unfortunately when your 2nd best receiver is Hawkins or a mid-round rookie and the not so explosive Barnidge is your TE, it isn't super difficult to cover everyone. Kessler started after Coleman broke his hand. We had Pryor and a bunch of JAGs. Pryor wasn't the most nuanced receiver himself. Definitely gifted, but still needed(or needs) refinement. I'm not sure where you are getting back yard football as Kessler's comfort zone. He looked decidedly uncomfortable most of the time. He was getting rag dolled on the regular. Who would be comfortable?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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I get a lot of grief on here because I don't think Cody challenges defenses down the field [and for the 1,000th time] I ain't just talking about bombs. Thank you for saying that he doesn't make the throws, and not going through this arm strength thing about whether he's capable of. Here's the bottom line with Kessler...
Is he willing to make real NFL throws? If he is willing, then does he have the ability to?
I think people are mischaracterizing Kessler`s issue from last year. We don't actually know if he has the arm strength or not. The bottom line is he refused to make NFL throws. This is what Hue was upset about. He needs to make a read, snap the ball, drop back, plant, throw. Sometimes that means throwing a guy open. Sometimes that means putting the ball on a string. Sometimes that means throwing into traffic. And thank you too for the same thing. When I look at old Cody scouting reports, that's the knock on him usually. Not necessarily that he can't throw the ball further down the field, but that he doesn't do it. I've always said, accuracy and anticipation is the most important thing when it comes to throwing. Arm strength is often overrated. Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, those guys didn't come out of college with rocket arms. They gained arm strength during their time in the NFL (which I think Cody CAN do), but they didn't have rocket arms. The real question is, does Cody have the mental makeup to hike the ball, stand in the pocket, and deliver deeper/intermediate routes. Because Vers has been right about that. The question IMO is whether he can correct it or not. Or at least get somewhat better. IMO I think there's an okay chance that he can. Same with what Rishuz said. Last year was a rookie year. As he becomes more comfortable with the offense, I am hoping things will slow down for Cody and he will start pushing the ball down field and stretching defenses (so we can open up the run game). Cody rarely has played under the same coach two years in a row, luckily, this year he does. Not the same QB coach, but the same offensive system at least. That's what I'm hoping for. A full offseason focusing on these throws, and another season in the same offense where he can get comfortable making them. I fully expect Cody to win the starting job. He's won QB competitions in college, and he'll hold onto that job here. I don't think we'll ever see him as some gunslinger throwing the ball all over the field, but I am hopeful for improvement this year in that facet of his game.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Did anyone read this part? Jackson believes Kessler must take more risks with deep passing to lead the Browns to victory. In the coach’s opinion, increasing the odds of an interception is a necessary evil in attempting to create more offense.
“Are you asking ‘Do I want to see the ball go down the field more?’ Yes, I do,” Jackson said. “I think it needs to. That is the way we in this offense score more points. Cody has done a good job of distributing the ball and he has done a good job of putting the ball in the right places for the most part.
“But he knows now that in the National Football League you have to sometimes take a few more chances to score points because the defenses are too good. They will give you certain things because they know you will take them and try to beat you in the other things. We have to always stay aggressive and push the ball when we can because it gives us a chance to have big plays.”
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I have some more thoughts on Kessler.
I agree w/many people that he looked pretty good at times last year. He did some things that impressed me. Such as:
--threw the slant very well
--did well on the quick timing routes
--mechanics were good when he made those quick decisions
--seemed to be fairly intelligent
--didn't make dumb throws
--not many turnovers
Here is what I didn't like:
--did not challenge teams w/more difficult throws
--did not trust what he saw and/or the play call at times
--the above led to him holding the ball too long at times and taking sacks
--mechanics broke down when moving outside the pocket
--threw against his body at times when moving to his left
It's too early to put a definitive stamp on him, but this is what I see:
A solid guy who is an ideal backup and should have a long, long career [provided he stays healthy.] Can be a spot starter if starting qb goes down for a game or two. I don't see him as a full-time starter because I think teams did learn and will learn how to game plan against him and force him to do things that he either can't or won't do.
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I don't think his inability to pull that trigger on longer routes...Mostly over 20 yds. can be challenged considering its well document that our HC and QB #1 man chastised him for the lack. of throwing those passes.
But this also doesn't deny the fact that he was a rookie a rookie who definitely was trying to NOT MAKE MISTAKES as a priority which I am also sure our coaching staff was drilling into him.
Also as a rookie the Windows are much smaller in the NFL so he had that adjustment to make and I think that made those longer throws more threatening to him...mentally. He just couldn't pull that trigger and be comfortable with that NFL Window and his accuracy on a quick judgment/read.
What I was impressed with was his accuracy, he is intelligent.
It is more than worth our while to continue with his progress, there is not a QB on our team that knows the Offense as well as him. If his confidence and COMFORT ZONE is expanded he actually could find a long term home here. In that case only the development of Kizer could unearth him from our starting position in the future.
I can only speculate on his development until seen of course on the field of play...we probably won't see it until Week 3 where the starter gets 2-3 quarters. But we also know that the speed of the game gets more intense when the season starts.
We were confident in him to let RG3 go If he was thought of as INEPT our staff would have still thought that RG3 gave us the best chance to win. Now I truly think that is Kessler.
Confidence and Comfort will be a big big key for Kessler.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I read it, and it sounds good. Saying it and doing it are two different things, though.
Who are our deep ball receivers? Pryor is a good receiver, but I'm not sure about his ability to play the deep ball yet. Coleman was hurt for most of Kessler's starts.
I'm just saying it might not all have been on Kessler.
If you hadn't seen the Cardale-Devin Smith connection, going solely on the following year you would think Jones sucks.
I think some people downplay (or maybe just fail to mention due to focus elsewhere) receiver's contribution to the success or failure of the deep passing game. It's also kind of it's own separate skillset, and not all receivers have it.
How often was there a safety over Pryor because teams didn't really feel threatened at the seams?
Kessler was part of the problem, no doubt, but I don't think he was the only part.
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I think one of the reasons Kessler sometimes waited too long to pass the ball is that our receivers don't get open. Watch any of the really good teams, their receivers will find a way to get open. Point being, it's not all on Cody.
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I better expound on something because it's obvious I didn't do a good job of communicating what I meant.
I have mentioned him not making the "challenging throws." However, I never explained what I meant and I have been guilty of being lazy and just saying deeper passes. I have tried to make it clear that I don't just mean "bombs."
What I haven't been clear about are these types of throws:
--Let's say the ball is on the left hash mark. You drop back and throw a 12 yard out w/zip to a WR on the opposite sideline. That doesn't seem like a long throw, but it is because you are throwing from the opposite hash. A lot can go wrong w/that throw. A lot of pick 6's come on that very throw. The ball has to get there quick to either beat the corner in man coverage or a nickel or dime guy who is in zone coverage and/or even a safety who undercuts the route.
When you don't make that throw, teams are able to defend less of the field and things get tighter. There is less room for your receivers to operate because you are not using enough of the field.
The other throw that is really important is the throw between the hashes into tight windows in the deeper intermediate zone, which is 18 to 22 yards down the field. You gotta put the ball over the linebackers heads, yet throw it w/enough zip to beat the trailing corner and the S who will moving towards the ball. DA used to excel at that throw and it really, really opens up a lot of things for your offense.
Those are two examples of the throws I am talking about rather than just what we typically think about, such as the bomb, the deep sideline outs, and the deeper post patterns.
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Here's the bottom line with Kessler...
Is he willing to make real NFL throws? If he is willing, then does he have the ability to?
I think people are mischaracterizing Kessler`s issue from last year. We don't actually know if he has the arm strength or not. The bottom line is he refused to make NFL throws. This is what Hue was upset about. He needs to make a read, snap the ball, drop back, plant, throw. Sometimes that means throwing a guy open. Sometimes that means putting the ball on a string. Sometimes that means throwing into traffic.
It is inconceivable that every time Kessler dropped back that every WR was covered. That's just not the way the NFL works. Kesslers comfort zone was backyard football so he created backyard football. Don't make the throw you're supposed to make, let everything break down, scramble drill...and if you survive the initial seconds of that, then it's much easier to complete a pass because WRs tend to be wide open by then. But it fails more than works and the WRs and OL end up taking the blame.
It was Charlie Frye all over again and excruciating to watch, I agree with the part where it's on Cody - and whether he has the ability. I disagree with part of it too. I disagree not in general - but when you consider that Cody was a ROOKIE. and all rookie's get the playbook simplified a little. Virtually all rookie QB's have the game shaped for them to maximize the QB's growth and confidence. While from the eye test we could see that Cody didn't have the same mustard on his throws as Dak or Wentz - who as the other 2 rookie QBs to play last year and an obvious comparison. . . . But here is the kicker. Stats don't change what we saw on the field and Cody's 93 QB rating didn't make him a lock to be a future franchise QB. But that said when you compare the stats of those 3 QB's the thing that jumps off the page: AIR YARDS PER PASS ATTEMPTDak - 4.65 - very good and high compared to many other NFL QB's. Perhaps having the NFL's best run game, OL and Zeke factored into this? Wentz - 3.21 - very low, other than Jared Goff (2.60)the lowest out of any QB with more than 1000 yards passing. Kessler - 3.86 - mid pack, touching the bottom 1/3. Now - no-one here seems to be questioning Wentz potential, or saying that his success came because the Doug Petersen was playing backyard football .... I think Doug actually got praised for generating a game plan to protect his rookie QB. I am not saying stats prove Cody is a great QB - the 'stats are for losers' statement has been used plenty on this board. . . . I am saying that with most rookie QB's you devise a scheme to help them adjust to the NFL. That is backed up by Wentz and Goff and Cody all having lower than average air yards per attempt. But given Wentz and Goff's anemic numbers - worse than Cody's - I think it's not a fair comparison to say Cody is a junk backyard QB. And that's not even trying to factor in the quality of the teams and the OL issues. We'll see come September.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Hue Jackson said he's the first guy up, essentially saying that it's his job and if anyone else wants it, they gotta take it away from him.
If he's the best we got, then so be it. I'd personally like to see someone bigger with a stronger arm win the job, but there isn't anything wrong with a smart/accurate smaller guy if he gets the job done.
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--threw the slant very well
--did well on the quick timing routes
--mechanics were good when he made those quick decisions
--seemed to be fairly intelligent
--didn't make dumb throws
--not many turnovers
Here is what I didn't like:
--did not challenge teams w/more difficult throws
--did not trust what he saw and/or the play call at times
--the above led to him holding the ball too long at times and taking sacks
--mechanics broke down when moving outside the pocket
--threw against his body at times when moving to his left
I'll take that list for a rookie QB who played on the 2016 Browns. I'll add I liked: - He's the Anti-Manziel. Quiet, hard working, unassuming.Lead with his actions not his mouth. - Moxy. Whatever you want to call it. He went in with the worst prep with a bad OL and the game simply wasn't too big for him. I'd say the other thing to add on the did not do well: - never once threw a WR open. - really seemed to struggle throwing to the TE on a seam / across the middle. - took too many risks with his body. I don't want him to be a 'hero' like McCown was, risking his body to make a play. Stay healthy man!
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Good stuff, Very. Agree with your overall analysis. I especially think he is hard pressed to deliver the deeper routes with the line leaking like a sieve at crucial times. But much of the game was dictated too often by the defense, especially secondary, with whom no lead was safe for long. Even when Kessler or another QB managed to hand them a lead, it did not hold up. I will not overlook the play mix while admitting the O must execute whatever is called. Just hope he grows into a slower game this year. A serious running game might help too.
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Make no mistake I'm pulling for the guy. I dont think he's a finished product. And I hope we see a much improved player this year.
But I almost stopped watching last year because he just wouldn't run the offense. It's like playing basketball and refusing to shoot the ball.
Likeable guy, hard worker. I hope he surprises me. We are due for some good luck.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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j/c:
We have some different takes on the guy and the situation, but people have been respectful and there haven't been any personal attacks.
We can all learn from honest debate and I think that is a good thing. Thanks.
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j/c:
We have some different takes on the guy and the situation, but people have been respectful and there haven't been any personal attacks.
We can all learn from honest debate and I think that is a good thing. Thanks. Don't you worry Vers. He's gonna come through, i got a good feeling about this  (although I've been very very wrong in the past on many things on this board)
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I know this is a HighLight tape...Not many outs a couple that were wide open...but also very adept on the Comeback route thrown outside. He had a deep out (actually a Corner route to Hawkins for a TD. A couple of throws in very tight windows.
I know this is all the good but that is what I got. The next tape that came up was of a game showing good and the bad...sorry was too lazy to watch and share...lol  Not enough time. lol...helps if I put the link..smh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wpqDhyB1To
Jmho
Last edited by eotab; 05/15/17 09:51 AM.
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I think Cody exceeded everyone's expectations last year while also exhibiting some fundamental issues: Underwhelming arm strength and not throwing the ball deep to force defenses to cover deeper. While the crowding the line factor may have impacted the run game - I personally think the injuries to the OL were at least as big a factor.
I am expecting Cody to surprise people again this year. I believe 100% that the guy is smart enough to realize that in order to be a QB in the NFL (his goal) he needs to throw the ball deep ... and I am hopeful his arm will be noticeably stronger too. Not expecting Mathew Stafford - just more zip and pop than last year. . . . whether the willingness to throw deep and the increase in arm strength is enough to make him 'the' guy - I don't know and it's a pretty long shot. But I am rooting for him to start every game, not because I want to baby Kizer - because I'd love to see Cody be good enough to keep Kizer on the bench.
In terms of a % chance of that happening - I think I like it more than most. I am going to say 1/5 chance - 20%. This right here. How many Teams planned on stopping Denvers run game just to be run all over? I've heard it said for years that running the ball is an attitude. If you want to run then your going to run. Now that doesn't mean they can't stop you once in a while, but on the whole, if you want to run, then you'll run.
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I have some more thoughts on Kessler.
I agree w/many people that he looked pretty good at times last year. He did some things that impressed me. Such as:
--threw the slant very well
--did well on the quick timing routes
--mechanics were good when he made those quick decisions
--seemed to be fairly intelligent
--didn't make dumb throws
--not many turnovers
Here is what I didn't like:
--did not challenge teams w/more difficult throws
--did not trust what he saw and/or the play call at times
--the above led to him holding the ball too long at times and taking sacks
--mechanics broke down when moving outside the pocket
--threw against his body at times when moving to his left I agree with all you are saying on these points but let me ask you this and see if we can break this down a bit more. Could this just be the natural negatives to a rookie offense? The OL changed its approach, the wr's basically from Pryor down to the last man were rookies and all were learning new with the exception of Hawkins.The TE's were basically all rookies in their playing times with the Barnidge exception but let's not put lipstick on that pig either cus he didn't have the greatest year. Now Barnidge not having a good year could be influenced by many things, new offense, multiple QB's and perhaps trying to do too much and missing basic things that made him shine the year previous. I don't want to make this about relying on excuses for Cody but do you think with all that working against a rookie QB offers hope that in year 2 with all these pieces returning we could begin to see more consistency from everyone around Cody to improve those areas?
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Several things about Kessler stood out to me last year as general impressions.
1) He was poised and didn't seem to get rattled. By that I mean regardless of the situation, he lined up and performed.
2) He had a knack for converting 1st downs, even on 3rd & long.
3) He didn't trust his ability to go deep, so he wouldn't, even when receivers were open.
Hopefully he can build on the first two. I'm not so sure what we'll see regarding the third issue. It was a problem in college, and I don't know if it's "fixable". I know he's been working on his arm strength, but I do have to wonder if the issue isn't located between the ears. He's saying the right things, but even after he was called out last year by Hue, he wouldn't go deep. So I'm not all that hopeful he'll improve on the deep ball. I'll have to see it to believe it.
JMHO
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I have some more thoughts on Kessler.
I agree w/many people that he looked pretty good at times last year. He did some things that impressed me. Such as:
--threw the slant very well
--did well on the quick timing routes
--mechanics were good when he made those quick decisions
--seemed to be fairly intelligent
--didn't make dumb throws
--not many turnovers
Here is what I didn't like:Most of these "didn't like" things can be attributed to his being a rookie.
Good job by the way
--did not challenge teams w/more difficult throws
--did not trust what he saw and/or the play call at times
--the above led to him holding the ball too long at times and taking sacks
--mechanics broke down when moving outside the pocket
--threw against his body at times when moving to his left
It's too early to put a definitive stamp on him, but this is what I see:
A solid guy who is an ideal backup and should have a long, long career [provided he stays healthy.] Can be a spot starter if starting qb goes down for a game or two. I don't see him as a full-time starter because I think teams did learn and will learn how to game plan against him and force him to do things that he either can't or won't do.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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I am not saying that Kessler is our Franchise QB but then I am not saying that he can't be. Cody Kessler is a very smart, hard working QB, he is not a QB that throws the ball up for grabs (he isn't a gunslinger), which should be high marks for any QB. As for his "refusal" to throw deep, I'm sorry but that is a bunch of bull, first of all you need the time to throw deep, second you need the WR's to stretch the Defense, as was mentioned NE took Pryor out with double teams, and Coleman wasn't even available much of the season, so he was left with the passes he had available, he was really very accurate at what he was doing, an as I mentioned earlier he didn't hurt the team by throwing INT's, what I am saying is give him the control's with a very much improved OL, and with a healthy Coleman and FA veteran pickup Kenny Britt, and with the talented rookie Njoku and see what he can do meanwhile bring Kiser along slowly, maybe we have the QB we need already, I don't know, but I would love to find out before we spend more draft capital chasing a QB we may already have right under our noses, if not Kessler maybe it's Kiser or even Osweiler ... JMHO
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I completely agree with you on Kessler. Last year he was lousy at pushing the ball down field. He didn't have the arm strength to do it with confidence.
I just wish you would stop using the NE game. He played in three drives. The first drive was a 3 and out, the second he marched them right down the field and scored a touchdown and the first play of third drive he was knocked out of the game with a hard hit on a sack. I actually use that second series as a defense of Kessler. He was in total command, changed plays at the line of scrimmage and threw guys open.
There are still a bunch of ifs with him. He does look bigger and stronger, has his arm strength improved? He is in his second year with the same system, does he know it well enough to throw earlier and throw with even more anticipation? If the answers to both and more are no, than I hope Hue is smart enough to move on quickly. But if the answers are yes, we have a heady QB that can get the job done. Nothing spectacular, but is young and should continue to get better as the games go by. I don't have much confidence that that will happen, but the QB situation is getting better in small strides.
With Kessler, I am worried the most about the amount of hits he has already taken, the head injuries, and if he gets hit early in the season, will he hold onto the football and embrace for impact like he did late last year. It just snowballed on him. Terrible loss of confidence.
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I've been watching alot of old Kosar games and 1 thing that I keep hearing about him is....He knows where to go with the ball.
Broadway Joe kept on harping about how smart he is and how it never ceases to amaze him...He just knows where to throw the ball. He doesn't look pretty and he looks real awkward but he just knows where to go with the ball. I think Kessler is smart enough to figure that out. He doesn't need a cannon of a arm to do that.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Below is the game recap from that Nov. 10, 2016 game...
While Cody does have areas that need work, hopefully the off-season will help him develop his on the field performance.
The one area of concern that can only be answered against live game action...durability. Cody suffered two concussions as a rookie, one month apart. The last concussion on Nov 20..that was the last game action Cody saw in 2016.
Better protection, getting rid of the ball sooner and his rookie experience should all help...but Cody is going to get hit and his ability to take the punishment could be a defining factor.
...we shall see.
Flacco, Ravens keep Browns winless with 28-7 rout Nov 11, 2016 Associated Press link BALTIMORE -- The Baltimore Ravens gained sole possession of first place in the AFC North at the expense of the winless Cleveland Browns, who reached a historic low point in franchise history. Joe Flacco threw three touchdown passes, and the Ravens used a strong second half to notch a 28-7 victory Thursday night. Baltimore trailed at halftime before gaining control during a third quarter in which Flacco went 10 for 12 with two scores. The Ravens (5-4) have won two in a row following a four-game losing streak. Baltimore is the only team in the division above .500. Cleveland (0-10) has opened a season with 10 consecutive losses for the first time since joining the NFL in 1950. The Browns have dropped 11 straight on the road since winning in Baltimore in October 2015. The defeat left Cleveland's all-time record at 461-461-10. The Browns have never been below .500. Down 7-6 at halftime, the Ravens moved 64 yards on their first possession of the third quarter to take a 13-7 lead. Flacco connected with five different receivers on the drive, closing with a 4-yard touchdown pass to Darren Waller. Browns coach Hue Jackson then opted to insert Josh McCown at quarterback after watching starter Cody Kessler go 10 for 17 for 94 yards. McCown's second pass was intercepted, giving Baltimore the ball at the Cleveland 40 with a chance to break the game open. The Ravens moved to the 15 before Flacco heaved an ill-advised throw into the end zone that was picked off by Joe Haden. Baltimore's next drive, however, was run on a short field. After a 32-yard punt gave the Ravens the ball at the Cleveland 43, Flacco threw an 11-yard touchdown pass to Steve Smith, and a 2-point conversion made it 21-7. A 27-yard touchdown throw to Breshad Perriman sealed it with 6:21 remaining and marked the 10th straight game in which the Browns yielded at least 25 points. Flacco went 30 for 41 for 296 yards and two interceptions. McCown went 6 for 13 for 59 yards. He was picked off twice and lost a fumble when hit by Terrell Suggs, who was playing with a torn biceps. "Adrenaline. Adrenaline was working tonight," Suggs said. Jackson said Kessler will start the Browns' next game, at home against Pittsburgh on Nov. 20. The first time these teams played this season, the Ravens had to rally from 20 points down to pull out for a 25-20 win. Baltimore needed another comeback in this one, though the deficit wasn't nearly as imposing. After their first three series produced two punts and an interception , the Ravens gained possession at the Cleveland 48 following a punt and used a 25-yard field goal to take a 3-0 lead. Kessler followed with a 25-yard touchdown pass to tight end Seth DeValve, and at that point the Browns looked very little like a team that hadn't won a game in 11 months. NOT EVEN CLOSE It was the first time this season that the Ravens had a game decided by more than eight points. It was their most lopsided victory since a 20-10 win over Cleveland on Dec. 28, 2014. QUOTABLE Browns: "It's fair to say we didn't expect to be here, but it's also fair to say we expect to grow from this," McCown said. Ravens: "Sizz is a once-in-a-generation type player," Baltimore safety Eric Weddle said about Suggs, who had a sack and a forced fumble. SMITH MOVES UP Smith had five catches for 60 yards and moved into eighth place on the NFL career list with 14,349 yards receiving. He passed Reggie Wayne, and now is in pursuit of No. 7 Marvin Harrison (14,580). INJURIES Browns: CB Jamar Taylor (groin) was inactive. Ravens: LG Alex Lewis injured his right ankle in the third quarter, was carted off the field and did not return. X-rays were negative. ... C Jeremy Zuttah injured his right ankle on Smith's TD. UP NEXT Browns: Host the Steelers, the first meeting of the season between the AFC North rivals. Ravens: Travel to Dallas on Nov. 20 to face the Cowboys, a team they're 4-0 against since the series began in 2000.
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Just stating some obvious things in regards to Kessler.
He was a third round rookie. He ended up starting on a very poor team.
Not only a poor team but a team that would challenge a good quarterback with experience.
After Bitonio went down so did the OL as a unit. They were really bad.
The receivers as a unit were lead by Pryor. Who was not exactly a veteran. Coleman a rookie barely played. Outside of TE Barnidge there was not much to work with. Pryor although he played well at time was still learning.
The running backs played well until Bitonio went down then so did the running game.
So I don't know how much could be expected from Kessler?
Given the circumstances he played pretty good.
However, even reaching his max potential playing with a above average team Kessler is not the answer.
He may carve out a good living as a backup. He simply does not have a NFL's starter's skill set.
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Bleh, I had kind of forgotten about that game. It does relate to the debate though. Kessler didn't do enough to win the game, but it was McCown being "more aggressive" that lost it.
In that highlight clip eotab linked, Kessler does make some of those throws you mentioned, Vers. I watched the Kessler v. Tennessee game that followed it and he had some nice throws there, too (There were some not so great) Louis had 3 drops which hurt. He threw a nice deep shot towards Duke which drew the PI. The Titans played over the top of Pryor seeming to give up the comeback. Seemed like penalties killed us that game. Lots of unfavorable down and distances.
His arm looks sufficient when he has a clean pocket, but did leave something to be desired when forced to rely solely on the arm. Hopefully he's one of the guys who can improve arm strength. He definitely tried during the offseason, we'll find out if it was effective.
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The receivers as a unit were lead by Pryor. Who was not exactly a veteran. Coleman a rookie barely played. Outside of TE Barnidge there was not much to work with. Pryor although he played well at time was still learning.
And honestly, Barnidge dropped a lot of passes last season, plus he really struggled to get open. He was not hte Barnidge of two years ago, no matter who was playing QB
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I've said how much I was impressed by him (compared to my expectations) ... but Vers is right with his 1st point on his negatives: he didn't challenge or push the ball at all. Whether that was lack of arm, lack of confidence, etc ... it's gotta improve or he can't play at this level
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j/c
Not agreeing with anyone, not disagreeing with anyone, just my thoughts.
Kessler was a 3rd round pick, and many thought drafting him in the 3rd was a stretch.
The plan for him was to not see the field during reg. season games, AT ALL. He was going to sit, watch, and hopefully learn.
We (the team) felt okay going with RG and Josh, 1 and 2.
Consequently, Kessler didn't get the reps in practice, UNTIL he became 2nd string, and then 3rd string. That time was during the season. Game planning was, I'm sure, the focus each week, not "teaching" the game to a fairly raw rookie.
Consequently, our 3rd round draftee not expected to see the field in a meaningful game was tossed to the dogs. Take his inexperience, a line that wasn't stellar, and go from there.
Almost ALL players in the nfl say something along the lines of "the nfl game is so much faster", and what we all think/hope feel "most players improve in their second year" (qb's included), and, I think, he may be quite improved.
Not franchise qb improved. But improved in his reads, improved in the speed at which he gets throws out. The game certainly should "slow down" for him this year - IF he starts. And really, even if he doesn't start.
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Just stating some obvious things in regards to Kessler.
He was a third round rookie. He ended up starting on a very poor team.
Not only a poor team but a team that would challenge a good quarterback with experience.
[color:#33FF33]After Bitonio went down so did the OL as a unit. They were really bad.
The receivers as a unit were lead by Pryor. Who was not exactly a veteran. Coleman a rookie barely played. Outside of TE Barnidge there was not much to work with. Pryor although he played well at time was still learning.
The running backs played well until Bitonio went down then so did the running game.
So I don't know how much could be expected from Kessler?
Given the circumstances he played pretty good.
However, even reaching his max potential playing with a above average team Kessler is not the answer.
He may carve out a good living as a backup. He simply does not have a NFL's starter's skill set. [/color]
What in your opinion was the cause of our OL being that bad? Do you think it was talent or experience? 1 guy going down does not seem like it could cause that much turmoil.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Thee Cody Kessler Thread
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