DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Thee Cody Kessler Thread

Both starting guards went down and the line lacked talent at center.

Really good posts on this thread, great dialogue.

I'll start with the big negative, and I'm doubtful he'll overcome it completely:
His arm strength. He has to get better at that part of his game.

I hope he proves me wrong.

I've said it a few times: Kessler has done things you like as a QB.
Seems accurate, decent ball placement most of the time.
Tough.
Looks like a gamer, scrappy type.

He had a lot of crap thrown at him as a rookie... OL injuries, Erving, a rookie QB on a lousy team. WR issues, a garbage defence.

So, you are saying Hue is full of bull?

It was good, but it got goofy. Comments like "it's a bunch of bull" are the reasons threads go to hell.

Man, I posted an article of Hue and others saying the same damn things I'm saying.......and people act like I am making them up.

Pfffttttttt....

Did you bother to read my post?

Your post was fine. I'm sorry, but Pastor's insinuation that I am making things up irritated me. I do NOT make things up to prove a point.

Give me a few, I'll calm down. LOL


I do believe that many posters are completely ignoring Hue's comments about Kessler when they are debating me. I do believe that Hue knows what Kessler is doing better than all of us combined.

I'm not getting into anyone's argument/discussion. I stated what I stated, and I stand by that.

I didn't question your statement.

Vers, all your points are valid. QBs like Kessler must read defenses quicker to make those long throws. I simply think Kessler lacks experience. I also think you need more supporting cast to help. Improve OL allowing Kessler less movement from the pocket. Better play makers defenses can't shut down everything.

I believe Kessler will make a huge step forward this year. Whether it is enough or not remains to be seen. It took Dalton a couple of seasons to be respectable. Alex Smith experienced the same his first couple of years.

I think it really boils down to does physical talent or mental game trump the other. You love having both but these days there are very few who have both.

As I watched Kessler I see a lot of Brian Sipe. It took Brian a couple of years. Mike Phipps was his competition. Mike had the physical skills but made to many mental mistakes. Eventually Cleveland obtain enough weapons to make the short game work along with a very good OL.

Apparently

I go back to that drive against NE.

Dude looked like an NFL QB.

Then he got smooshed on the very next drive (iirc) and went back to captain checkdown type stuff.

It's hard to get out of the shell shock that CK got himself into by the end of the season. I don't think he'll even be better than Colt McCoy at this point.

The flip side of my comment about Kessler having that one drive against NE.

Remember McCoy against the Jets?

Dude drove down the field and tied it up. Clutch as hell.

I thought we had finally found our guy after that drive..

I will say he did look "ok" when he played in Washington. I think it took a while for his shoulder to get back to 100%. But even after that. He's still just a guy.

I think the OL gets way too much blame. Weren't they ranked right in the middle of the pack by PFF?

I think Erving was pretty bad, but other than that, no one sucked.

I also think that Greco is severely underrated by most people. I think he is a quality guard and I don't know just how much of an upgrade we will have.

I think the OL is taking a lot of the blame for Cody's issues. And again, I think Hue knows more about the situation than any of us and he pretty much said the same thing I have been saying. Ignoring that analysis will not make the issues disappear.

Great thread! I was a supporter of Cody last season mainly for the flashes, accuracy and moxie he had considering he was never meant to start. He exceeded the expectation set in pre-season....

Now he's the projected starter. So he has higher expectations of him. He needs to improve what he did well as well as what he didn't. I saw improvement in his game last year but that counts for nought unless he makes big leaps this year. I really hope he can - it will eliminate a need, allow Kizer time to sit and learn.

I sincerely hope we lean on the run and play action more - I think excelling at that is the QB's best friend. Someone said - if we wanted to run we should be able to and we couldn't, stacking the box be damned. Run the ball, open up play action, loosen the defense.

Good luck Cody!

Heard on talk radio that people were up in arms that Cody was the leader for the job at this time.

I think that's a coach doing things the right way.

Of course Cody has a leg up on Kizer. Cody is in year two with Hue, he played in a pro style offense in college. Kizer is learning to call plays and take snaps from under center. He has a long way to go, but his potential is really good.

I don't buy this whole "veteran QB teaching the young guy!" angle. Brett Favre didn't teach Aaron Rodgers to be great. Aaron Rodgers was great and went into a great spot. In fact, I believe Rodgers went on record as saying Favre really didn't do a lot for him. I can imagine when the Packers surprised a lot of people drafting him in the midst of Favre still being relevant, and the team needing help elsewhere, he took it is a slight and probably didn't take the kid under his wing.

I think a QB like Cody, who is limited to some of the physical tools Kizer has, but has the right head, and the right work ethic, and all that other stuff, can help push a young guy to do everything in his power to catch up, and one day take the job.

I like Kessler a lot. I thought he handled himself well in a situation where he probably shouldn't have been playing. I think the league figured out some things about him after a few games put on tape, and started to take away the short stuff, because his deep ball is limited. I don't know what he could reall fix with arm strength, because at this point, your arm is kind of what it is. I am interested to see what he looks like in year two of the same system, with some improvements all over the team. I do believe he will start against the Steelers in week 1. I don't think Kizer will be ready but with hopefully a year under his belt and a system that is still in place, he can take over in 2018.

I'm just really glad Josh Mccown is off this team. Cody and Kizer are both unknowns to me, and McCown is most definitely a known. I'll take my chances with those two young guys competing at this point than that dude throwing picks and making awful decisions.

My issue with the O-Line was that the middle was getting blown up frequently. Once Bitonio went down, it just seemed like we'd get this heavy pressure up the middle and QBs would get killed. IMO Paztor actually improved at RT as the season went on, but in the beginning he would give up sacks by missing his block.


But there were plenty of times that Cody could have made a decision quicker and released the ball. How much of that has to do with WRs running incorrect routes or whatever, I have no clue, but some of it certainly falls on him.

But from my eye test, what I noticed was that Cam Erving would occasionally miss a block and QBs would get crushed, and in general most of the pressure seemed to come from the middle.

It's one of the reasons I'm very happy with our Center/Guard FA acquisitions. Definitely strengthens this O-Line.



I absolutely agree with this. I think sitting behind a veteran QB can be good in that you can see how to model yourself (as in, you do what they do), but if you're willing to listen, a good QB Coach (especially one who's been around the block, like ours has), will teach you all you need to know. You might see how they lead the offense/huddle, but that only happens when they are the starting QB and things are going well. That's one thing I liked about Brian Hoyer, the offense rallied behind him, and he was a leader in the locker room.

The whole QB Mentor thing is overrated and has never worked for us. Whether it be with Trent Dilfer, Seneca "The Tallest" Wallace, Jake "Gimmie A Break" Delhomme, Jason Campbell, Josh McCown, Brian Hoyer, and whoever else I'm leaving out


Working hard is what's going to turn you from a decent player to a good player or a good player to a great player. And I agree, nothing against Josh McCown, but he's not bringing much to the table at this point.

Pasztor is a free agent and could return to the Browns, eotab. Shouldn't you wait until he officially signs somewhere else before you blast him?

I just found this on something called 247sports site:

"There's a lot to like about Pasztor -- he's young (26), can play guard or tackle, and finished 2016 with a terrific pass-blocking rating (84.0), according to Pro Football Focus."

I think just how bad Erving was plus the injuries caused a bit of a domino effect. Having effectively a swinging door in the middle of the line was bad enough but once Bitonio and then Greco go down was rough. Middle of the line broke down constantly...flushing Kessler and leading to the worst of his bad plays.

There's no excuses on the O-Line this year and, with an upgraded defence that HOPEFULLY will keep us closer, it's prove it time for Kessler. I'm rooting for the guy.

Pasztor might not be the belle of the ball. But I think he could be serviceable in the way of Ryan Tucker and Kevin Schaffer. Personally, I hope they give the job to Shon, but just in case I'm keeping Pasztor on speed dial.

Cody's issues, weak arm and being afraid to go deep due to his lack of confidence in his arm. He ticks off every other box that a QB needs in the NFL except for those. He reminds me of Sipe and Kosar except that they knew they had weak arms, but they also knew how to exploit a defense based on that knowledge. If he can ever strengthen his arm a bit, and learn to trust his deep ball he can be a good NFL QB. He has everything but those two qualities only time will tell if he learns, remains a backup, or falls out of the league.

I loved that 2007 Oline.

You had clean cut Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach of the left side.

Veteran Hank Fraley in the middle.

And the Sons of Anarachy on the Right..

Don't forget Ken "coach" Dorsey.. I probably fell for that whole angle too.

Would guess that the coach wants the young qb to listen to him and not some washed up has-been.

I think if the vet qb mentor thing were real you'd see more good qb's leaving teams after playing behind all the Mannings, Brady's, Brees' etc.. instead you only have Rodgers and Young as guys who succeeded following the legend.

Cant forget about Ty Detmer lol

Well, I disagreed w/most of the takes since I posted earlier today.............but, I did like that the posters all kept it cool. No bickering. No claims of "agenda." Just pretty good football talk that was supported by logical reasons.

I like that.

Don't be surprised if Drango wins the RT spot. It's probably not his strongest position, but I bet he gets a real shot there.

Agreed. While I think Shon Coleman is probably more athletic than he is (as is Cam Irving), Drango impressed last year. And it's not always about who is individually the best, it's also how you mesh with the rest of the O-Line, and for all we know, Drango might work well with Zeitler. He played tackle in college after-all

LOL............the Kizer thread and the Crow thread had quite a few Kessler posts in them. Heck, that is why I made this thread. So........what happens? It becomes an OL thread.

Yeah, like threads NEVER turn on a dime.

Sometimes I wonder why we even make threads.

It started out that way (minus Erving of course) but losing Bitonio really hurt, then losing Greco hurt. So by mid season, we weren't that good at all.

Really I'm not sure John Elway in his prime would have been able to do what he did with that line.

As usual ... facts are wrong once again ...

Greco played 3/4's of the season not 1/2 the season ...

I know .. i know ... no biggie cause facts just aren't that important to u ...

Facts might be wrong but the point stays the same.... the line had problems throughout the year. Erving went down then Greco bumped inside. By the time Erving was better, Bitonio was out. We were always a man short...and I'd argue when Erving was out there, you may as well be two men short.

This is a Kessler thread. I get that the OL should be discussed, but I get the feeling people are blaming the OL for all of Cody's issues. I don't think that is the way to look at things.

I better edit that thought, because someone will rip it. What I'm saying is that I am getting the feeling that people are blaming the OL to shift the emphasis away from how Kessler played.

I didn't care much for RGIII as a qb, but when he came back in, there were more running lanes for the backs and the offense opened up.

I believe that Kessler has the issues I brought up in the OP and that Hue talked about. Blaming the OL will not make those issues go away.

I've meant to mention that before: teams knew at least rg3 could threaten with the deep ball, and played a little more cautious about getting burned on deeper throws.

RG3 could also take off at any instant.. Defenders play mobile QB's different as they can't go 100mph every snap bc it will take them out of the play.

I don't blame the OL for Cody's issues. Cody has areas in his game he definitely needs to show marked improvement.

But his QB play was without question impacted negatively by the inconsistencies of the OL play. How much is open to opinion - but that's subjective.

Be interesting to see with a year under his belt, better OL, reps as a starter throughout preseason .... just how good he can be. And if he isn't good we have Kizer in the wings... I will have no issue if Cody doesn't perform in letting Kizer take over and seeing what he can do.