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doing this stuff in public service violates ethics laws and is wholly illegal


Please no offense, but it's wholly illegal to ask any appointed investigator assigned to any legal case to back off their investigation. It's called obstruction of justice. Public service or not.

But I agree with Swish, at least you have a line.


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If anything, Trump is confirming what many believed and others have feared. He's inept. This move has ensured that this investigation will become even more heated and every little detail will be combed through. What may have faded away with a whimper, eventually ending with a few folks being thrown under the bus, is now red, hot fire. Trump isn't listening to anyone, which I thought would be his downfall in the election, but it's most certainly going to be the downfall of his presidency if he doesn't change this soon. He shows no signs that he is capable of changing that behavior.

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Quote:
He shows no signs that he is capable of changing that behavior.


Well, when you've been full of yourself for seven decades running...


WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
my two cents...
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Originally Posted By: MrTed
Quote:
He shows no signs that he is capable of changing that behavior.


Well, when you've been full of yourself for seven decades running...



I'm not 70!!

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Originally Posted By: JulesDawg
Originally Posted By: MrTed
Quote:
He shows no signs that he is capable of changing that behavior.


Well, when you've been full of yourself for seven decades running...



I'm not 70!!


Well played! thumbsup


WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
my two cents...
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So, there's been 3 guys who removed themselves for consideration of FBI director.

No surprise there.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/17/mueller-clients-special-prosecutor-238532?lo=ap_a1

Quote:

Robert Mueller could face one significant issue with his appointment as special counsel to lead the Justice Department's investigation into ties between Russia and Donald Trump's presidential campaign: The law firm he's worked at since 2014 has represented several prominent players in Trump's bid for the White House.

Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, Trump's daughter Ivanka and his son-in-law Jared Kushner are all clients of Wilmer Hale, the firm Mueller is leaving to assume the position of special prosecutor overseeing the high-profile Russia election probe.

One prominent expert on government ethics rules said Wednesday that lawyers entering federal service would normally be required to recuse themselves from decisions regarding individuals who were represented by the new official's former firm.

"It's a possible wrinkle in all off this," said Richard Painter, a University of Minnesota law professor and former White House ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush. "Usually, there would be a one-year cooling off period."

Former FBI Director Robert Mueller has been named to oversee the probe.
POLITICS
Justice Dept. names Mueller special counsel for Russia probe
By JOSH GERSTEIN , MATTHEW NUSSBAUM , DARREN SAMUELSOHN and JOSH DAWSEY
However, Painter said that requirement can be waived by Justice Department ethics officials and he would support them doing so in this instance.

"I would support them using that authority," Painter said. "It doesn't really make sense for him to oversee one part of the investigation and recuse from others....The real risk here is interference by the White House or by [Attorney General Jeff] Sessions' appointees, not some issue involving Wilmer Hale."

Painter did say it might be wise for Mueller and any other ex-Wilmer lawyers who work on the investigation to refrain from direct negotiations with their former colleagues.

"It would be a good idea not to have too many face-to-face meetings," the ethics lawyer said.

Justice Department officials did not respond to a request for comment on the issue.

Wilmer Hale co-managing director Robert Novick said he could not comment on the government ethics rules, but he said Mueller didn't play any part in the firm's work for Manafort, Ivanka Trump or Kushner.

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"He had absolutely nothing to do with any of those representations," Novick told POLITICO Wednesday night.

Congressional investigators pursuing the Russia election issue are seeking to talk to Manafort about his dealings in Ukraine and elsewhere with Russia-friendly business titans and political figures. They also have sought to speak with Kushner about why he omitted meetings with Russian officials and business leaders from his security clearance forms. His attorneys have called that an error.

Notwithstanding the ethics issue, Painter praised Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's pick of Mueller to act as special counsel overseeing the sensitive investigation.

"He's a brilliant choice.... He's as close to an Archie Cox as you're going to find," Painter said, referring to the respected lawyer who served as special prosecutor during the Watergate investigation.


Law Agency Mueller worked for before being appointed special prosecutor represents Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort. None of these people are Mueller's clients, but it is interesting to see how connected the DC elite is.

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Are you all sure you would rather see Mike Pence as President rather than Trump?


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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Are you all sure you would rather see Mike Pence as President rather than Trump?


Yes.

He *hopefully* isn't bought off by the Kremlin.

On top of that, IF....IF this is all true and trump gets impeached, then it won't matter, because the American people are putting the GOP out in 2018.

There was already plenty of reason to put them out anyway. The healthcare crap is all the reason people need.

But this? Yikes bro. So most like pence will be dealing with a democrat dominate congress, with him probably not even running for president in 2020.

But not like this bro. I maintain that since day 1 when this crap started. I'd love to see the GOP ousted, but not like this. This is the absolute worst way possiible for liberals to get back D.C., because our president is obstructing justice and committing treason.

As I told rocket in a text, I'm still hoping none of this is true.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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I would be OK with Pence when he makes comments like this

"He has said publicly, “I long for the day that Roe v. Wade is sent to the ash heap of history.”


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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
I would be OK with Pence when he makes comments like this

"He has said publicly, “I long for the day that Roe v. Wade is sent to the ash heap of history.”


He can make that comment all he wants, doesn't mean anything is gonna come of it.

I'd be happy with him if he took weed off of schedule 1.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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So would I, but don't hold your breath. Indiana still fined you 1,000 bucks and could lock you up for 180 days for having ONE joint.


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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Are you all sure you would rather see Mike Pence as President rather than Trump?


As a conservative Republican...you don't want Pence anywhere near the White House.

Trump, while his heart is in the right place, he loves his country, is simply inept...

Pence on the other hand is dangerous...he is ultra, ultra, ultra hard core to the right....He is most right wing guy in politics, the guy is insane...

The Old Taft Wing of the Republican Party would shudder at the thought of Pence being President....Pence is the poster boy of the Neo-conservative movement.

If he gets in there is no doubt he will pursue the PNAC(Project for the New American Century) to the extremes....and thats not good for any of us...Bush Jr. pursued it very briefly and look where it got us...

you don't just say no to Pence...you say HELL NO!

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For those who don't know what the PNAC is (Project for the New American Century)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

https://cryptome.org/rad.htm

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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Are you all sure you would rather see Mike Pence as President rather than Trump?


I'm not really cool with him, but I'd rather him be President than Trump. Pence will only get the rest of the term, he's not popular enough to beat Sander's in 2020.

BUT there is a chance that he and Ryan could both be ensnared in this investigation. It's possible that this falls as far as Senate Orrin Hatch or Rex Tillerson. shocked

I think Trump and Sessions are going to take a fall for sure. Not sure how much Pence and Ryan know... There is speculation that Trump is laundering or has laundered Russian money through his hotels. There has been an obvious attempt to cover something up, all who knowingly participated in that should fall.

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If Trump falls, Comey should get the job back imho.

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Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/po...ation.html?_r=0

Simply put, Trump asked Comey to end investigations into Flynn, and Comey refused. The guy is finished....it will be known as "The Comey Memo"

I voted for Trump too, but this kinda stuff happens in private sector business everyday. However, doing this stuff in public service violates ethics laws and is wholly illegal. Obstruction of Justice pretty much which is a felony.

Trump literally just doens't realize you can't do this kinda stuff in public service where Ethic Laws passed after Watergate simply don't allow it.

This guy will either be impeached or be forced to resign...one of the two.

What a shame, I voted for the guy too, but I can't go along with such unethical behavior...that kinda stuff, just like corruption has no place in the Oval Office.




If that's the case, let's bring the Wall Street Speaker before congress and pull his pension and benefits:

by Andrew C. McCarthy

May 17, 2017


Up until now, veiled orders have not been thought the equivalent of obstruction. On April 10, 2016, President Obama publicly stated that Hillary Clinton had shown “carelessness” in using a private e-mail server to handle classified information, but he insisted that she had not intended to endanger national security (which is not an element of the relevant criminal statute). The president acknowledged that classified information had been transmitted via Secretary Clinton’s server, but he suggested that, in the greater scheme of things, its importance had been vastly overstated.

On July 5, 2016, FBI director James Comey publicly stated that Clinton had been “extremely careless” in using a private email server to handle classified information, but he insisted that she had not intended to endanger national security (which is not an element of the relevant criminal statute). The director acknowledged that classified information had been transmitted via Secretary Clinton’s server, but he suggested that, in the greater scheme of things, it was just a small percentage of the emails involved. Case dismissed. Could there be more striking parallels? A cynic might say that Obama had clearly signaled to the FBI and the Justice Department that he did not want Mrs. Clinton to be charged with a crime, and that, with this not-so-subtle pressure in the air, the president’s subordinates dropped the case — exactly what Obama wanted, relying precisely on Obama’s stated rationale.

Yet the media yawned.

Of course, they’re not yawning now.

Now it is Donald Trump, not Barack Obama, sending Comey signals. So now, such signals are a major issue — not merely of obstruction of justice, but of high crimes and misdemeanors. Trump hysteria seems to be a permanent condition, a combustive compound of media-Democrat derangement surrounding a president who keeps providing derangement material.

Let’s try to keep our feet on the ground, but with a commitment to get the evidence and go wherever it takes us. For now, we don’t have much evidence. Essentially, we’ve got single statement, mined by the New York Times from a memo that no one outside a tight circle inside the FBI has seen — indeed, that the Times has not seen. According to anonymous sources, the memo was written by then–FBI director Comey shortly after a private meeting with President Trump — only two of them in the room after Trump asked other officials to leave.

This was on February 14, the day after National Security Adviser Michael Flynn resigned over inaccurate statements he made to senior administration officials in recounting conversations he’d had with Russian ambassador Sergei Kislyak. Trump is said to have told Comey, “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.” Other than telling us that Comey replied, “I agree he is a good guy,” the Times provides no context of the conversation. Its report gives no indication of whether the memo provides such context.

On its face, the statement does not amount to obstruction of justice. Trump could be said to be putting pressure on his subordinate, just as Obama was putting pressure on his subordinates (Comey included) last April.

But assuming the Times is right about the memo, Trump did not order Comey to drop the case. In fact, Trump’s statement is consistent with encouraging Comey to use his own judgment, with the understanding that Trump hoped Comey would come out favorably to Flynn. But of course, also with the understanding that if Comey pushed to prosecute Flynn, the president — who had the power to fire Comey — was going to be very unhappy. Just as President Obama would have been very unhappy, and in a position to fire Comey, if Mrs. Clinton had been indicted. It is not frivolous to infer that Trump’s statement to Comey was a veiled order.

If that is your interpretation, though, you cannot avoid the conclusion that Obama’s public statements were also veiled orders not to indict Clinton.

Up until now, veiled orders have not been thought the equivalent of obstruction of justice. Context is critical, and we don’t have it. In light of what I’ve previously contended (viz., that obstruction of justice is a concept irrelevant to a counterintelligence investigation), I must note here that concerns about obstruction of justice in the context of the reported Trump-Comey conversation are legitimate.

That is because the conversation does not directly relate to the so-called Russia investigation, which Comey has explained is a counterintelligence inquiry regarding Kremlin interference in the 2016 election. Rather, Trump and Comey were speaking about a criminal investigation of Flynn, ancillary to but separate from the Russia investigation.

We are informed that a grand jury in Virginia is considering evidence of transactions involving Flynn, although it is not clear that this was the case on February 14, when Trump and Comey spoke.

There is good reason to believe veiled orders, while inappropriate, are not criminal — i.e., they do not rise to the level of prosecutable obstruction of justice. Obstruction can be a tough crime to prove. It is necessary to establish, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the suspect acted corruptly in impeding or influencing a criminal investigation. That means acting with knowledge that one’s conduct was unlawful, and with a specific intent to undermine the truth-seeking function.

Context is critical, and we don’t have it. All we know is that Trump hoped the criminal investigation would be dropped — but again, did not order it to be dropped — and vouched for Flynn’s character. That may have been inappropriate under the circumstances, but it was not corrupt.

Comey surely found it awkward, but he clearly did not perceive it as obstruction. The former director is a highly experienced and meritoriously decorated former prosecutor and investigator. He knows what obstruction of justice is.

And the Jim Comey I’ve known for 30 years would not stand for political interference in law enforcement. If he had understood Trump’s remarks as a directive or, worse, a threat, he would have resigned. It is not enough to say that he did not resign.

Unlike the investigation of Mrs. Clinton, the investigation of Flynn has continued. Plus, Comey does not appear to have indicated to his subordinates, to his Justice Department superiors, or to Congress that he felt threatened. Deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein and Comey’s former deputy (now acting director) Andrew McCabe have not intimated, even vaguely, that their investigative activities have been hampered.

Again, the investigation is proceeding apace. There is no question that obstruction of justice is an impeachable offense. But media hyperventilating notwithstanding, the basis for claiming at this point that President Trump obstructed justice is not there . . . unless you also think President Obama obstructed justice last April.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447710/donald-trump-obstruction-justice-james-comey-russia

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Quote:
Yet the media yawned.

rofl No they didn't! It was all over the media. What planet was Andrew McCarthy on? They tore her a new one. Especially Fox News, and they still are.


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