DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns today 10 scale

I see your point, but 4-12 doesn't float my boat, unless we nail the QB position going into 2018.
Either CK emerges, Kizer shows solid potential and we show growth in second half of season... I'd be ok with 4 wins.

I expect at least four wins... I think we're going the right way... we've line on both sides of the ball... That's where it has to start,,, I think we should be between 4-7 wins... But maybe I'm being too optimistic..

I can get on this here, with the exception/addition that we're competitive at least in the other games.

j/c

I read threads like these and sometimes I wonder what people are thinking.

Yes, we added a draft and yet another FA signing period. I think we made some very good moves. But we didn't do this in a vacuum.

The other 31 teams went through the exact same process. So while we are improving, they are improving. That's what makes catching up such a slow and difficult process. Not only do we have to get better, we have to cross our fingers that other teams are screwing up.

6-7 wins - I'm optimistic that a MUCH better defense and SOME improvement at QB helps us win the close games (like the ones we lost last year). On a 1-10 scale, that puts them at around a 4.

What has Sashi and Jackson done since taking over?

1. They basically took charge of a failed previous fixer-upper project. Farmer's intentions were fine but flawed plan. It sucks too. I think Pettine had the making to be a fine HC given more talent. Step one I feel Sashi and Jackson assembled a more thought out detailed plan.

2. It's been debated to death not only here but by media and professional analyst. Do you combine seasoned veterans and young talent? Again, I think it is a preference. I don't think there is right or wrong here. We are not looking at a team that is a couple of players short. Before Sashi and Jackson depth on this roster was simply bad and didn't fit. Whether you drafted or picked up in FA a major overhaul was needed to get like pieces. I still think there are pieces that the Browns are making work instead of having the right guy. Step two structured the roster that is cohesive and have purpose.

3. Browns lack leadership. With the exception of Thomas and Hayden you have nothing. Hawkins and McCown, while here, two you can add. I think many of the past FA hired failed bringing guidance. I think Sashi and Jackson are attempting to make this a priority. You really see "take charge" and "self motivated" kind of guys. Step three add leadership and accountability.

4. Working relationship between front office and coaching staff. I believe this maybe the closest we seen both sides working together. Last two off seasons we haven't seen all the drama and chaos. Rumors coming out before both drafts haven't been true. You see some real come together no finger pointing when mistakes are made. Step four create a working relationship between management and coaching staff.

It hasn't all been perfect. There has been some head scratching moments. Overall, I see hope and growth. I think this is a real pivotal year. Second year, just like player development, you like seeing a big spike. I believe Sashi's running this year's draft looked twice better than last. Already we see improvement. Lets hope we see more the remainder of the year.

That's true, Pit. Take for example...the Bengals. They lost both Whitworth and Zeitler, two very good starters on their Oline. This had to significantly weaken the team. In fact, I would not be surprised to see us playing better ball than them by near season-end and our record end up better than theirs...

Right at this point before the whole team is together for OTA's I give it probably a 4 at best with all the potential we gathered up this off season. I do have expectations to bump up around 6 or 7 by the time the season starts. I think on that scale I am looking for around a 5 win season as my baseline anything better than that will blow me away anything below won't exactly suprise me but I will be rather disappointed. I still won't give up the keys on this fan bus or the front office/coaching staff just keep building it cus I don't think year 2 is the year to freak out after year 3 is when we should evaluate the process.

Yeah, if we are still a 2-3 win team in 2018 then something is wrong IMO.

In 2017 if we are like 3-13 I get it ... but then we should be competitive

j/c:

I don't think we know if the rookies and second year guys will play well or not. We sure as heck don't know how next year's draft picks will play in 2018. LOL

Our offense was one of the worst in football last year. We lost our best playmaker and have digressed at qb. The OL should be improved, but I don't think that guard was a huge need for us, unless Greco is still hurt. I think he is a fine player and underrated by people on this board.

I think this offense is going to struggle to score points and it's going to be tough to win games w/such a blah offense.

The defense should be improved, but again, I think our secondary could be the worst in all of the NFL.

Going to be another tough year.

While true, there are a lot of teams that got worse.

Off the top of my head, the Jets had a god awful offseason and is looking squarely at the #1 pick next year. Washington had a bad offseason, lost their best WR and defensive lineman. Houston had a bad offseason too, although I think they made an upgrade at QB.

Looking at the Browns in the NFL vacuum, I think they are not the least talented team in the NFL anymore. Jets and 49ers are worse than us, IMO. If we find our QB, we pass up a lot of teams, like the Rams, Jags, and Bears easily, IMO.

We'll see. On a scale of 1-10 right now, I'd put us at a 3. Again, if we find the QB, we are probably a 6 and 2018 is gonna be the beginning of our playoff push for many many years to come

Not to be dismissive, but I don't see a 1-to-10 scale as being particularly meaningful in a league where, imo, the difference in overall talent, up and down the roster, from team to team, is pretty small. But the NFL is a QB league, so if you have a good one, chances are you're a playoff contender, and if you have a great one there's a good chance you are a SB contender. If you have an average to below average QB, you are most likely a spectator for the postseason. But a team that doesn't have a good or great QB isn't a 1 or 2 on a scale of 10; more like a 6.

bb, Bengals know their team. They know how to develop. They know they can let Whitworth and Zeitler go because they have someone ready. That, is the difference between other AFCN teams and Cleveland. You don't restructure a team in less than two years to compete against that stability.

Browns plan is accelerating the influx of talent to compete. Next step is continuing the replenishment of drafted talent. I believe Browns have a mechanism in place strengthening the team's draft process. We won't know it works for a few years. As Sashi states they are building sustaining success. To get there takes time and patience only the top third of the league do. Here lies the biggest hurdle Haslam most overcome.

Well being a minority owner in the Steelers he should know it may take 30+ years to grind it out

Gawd I loath the thought we must wait for talent to come. Build a team who makes players great. Think about it for a few seconds examine why teams like Seattle, New England, the dreaded Rat Birds, and f'n Steelers time and time again have great players. Now I must listen how the dang blasted Cowboys learned to do it. They make not wait.

Vers I agree that it most likely will be another tough year. However, if our young players do develop as they should, being with more experience and some new talent, we may be surprised. I don't believe we will win more than 4 or 5 games but if we see competiveness in most of our games it will be a step in the right direction. Most of our games last season, like 11 or 12 we weren't competitive. If your a Browns fan 4 or 5 wins isn't bad especially after last year. I think we are finally moving in the right direction. Let's hope!!

The Bengals don't have anybody ready to replace Whitworth and Zeitler. Heck they may have the worst Oline in football this year and they were only average last year with 2 of the best Oline players in the NFL.
The Bengals plan is to play last years 5th rnd pick Westerman, who didn't play at all last year, in Zeitler's place and Jake Fisher to play LT in Whitworth's place. Fisher and Cedric Ogbuehi both played RT last year and were terrible.

I would say we can win 5-6 if our D improves and on paper they have drastically improved, and our OL can open up the Run game which they should be able to do with all the improvements, along with improved play at QB which is possible with the improved OL being able to give whoever is our starter more time. Yes I would say 5-6 Wins is possible and if we can get to 6-10 this year the sky is the limit in 2018 ... JMHO

Didn't they also draft two LT's in the first round a couple of years ago? Maybe one in the first and one in the second?

How many years has Cincy had a winning record, and during that time they made the playoffs how many? I bet Cincy wins more than they lose again this season. Cincy does this every few years. Doing this may keep them from winning super bowls. For now, I love having Cincy's problems.

I think their record gets worse this year. 6-9-1 last year and they seem to have gotten worse on the OL.

Yes and so far they have both stunk, Ogbuehi and Fisher. Ogbuehi was the RT this past year and he was so bad that they pulled him and put Fisher in and he was terrible too. Unless those two get dramatically better this year Dalton is gonna get killed. PFF rated Ogbuehi the 77th OT last year with a rating of 39.4 and Fisher didn't have enough snaps/starts to be ranked but he had a rating of 43.5. To put in perspective, Cam Erving had a slightly better grade then Ogbuehi last year.

Just to add.

Cincy's line next year will consist of 2 guys who have been no better the average in OC Bodine and LG Boling, a RG who has yet to play a snap, and 2 OTs who have been pretty bad when they have played. Bodine was ranked the 26th best OC last year and Boling the 33rd best OG.

We can argue opinions all day. I get it. In the end, it is simply opinions. Bottom line I wish we had Cincy's problems rather than our own. In my opinion, I wouldn't bank on Cincy drafting in top ten next year. Sigh, another opinion!!!!!

That's realistic. I'm thinking 3 or 4. Not much of a difference between our opinion. I do get the feeling that things are looking better and I like the direction more than in many of our past regimes.

We're just so young and inexperienced. We don't have a qb we can count on and the secondary stinks. Things are looking better, but I think we need to be patient and give these guys time to grow.

The last thing I wanna see is the blame game and we start calling for people to be fired. I know we have been asked to be patient for an eternity, but we gotta give these guys time.

I could be way off here but with this new collection of coaches and front office they were pretty up front about what they were gonna do. I think from season one to season two they have at least from an organizational standpoint and having a tangible plan in FA and draft that fans will allow a third season before the calls of the gallows are made. I obviously could be wrong but at least it feels like they actually know what they want and how they are gonna do it unlike prior regimes that just seemed sometimes they made it up as they went but always said what ya wanted to hear.

Remember last year this FO (and Hue) didn't have a lot of time to prepare for FA and the draft and did ok IMO, then when this year came around they were prepared and it showed through FA and the Draft, and I can't wait to see what they do next year in FA and the Draft, I have a great feeling that these "Harvard Boys" and Hue will have us playing some competitive football this year, and have us contending for the playoffs if not in 2018 defiantly in 2019 ... JMHO