DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Front office ....

Well, they said a new front office thread would be made.

?

Seems like this could have been put in the Ryan Grigson thread.

Ya think !

obviously everyone is free to post when and where they wish, but i think this 175th front office thread should be left to Mac. he is borderline o/c on the subject. there is nothing new to add so he keeps rehashing the same old material. let's move on.

I don't think Hue has as much say in personnel draft picks or staffing as one might think.

Vers asked me a question about the FO in a PM .. i started to reply and it turned into this .. it got long and damm was it good .. *LOL* .. so i felt obligated to share it ( ) since I haven't weighed in on this in a awhile ... this is a take somewhere in between mac's consistent bashing and the "fans" sticking up for them no matter how STUPID what they did was ...

I did not like this FO ... Thought it was HORRIBLE ... we had NO FOOTBALL GUYS .. NONE ... it was all analytics based guys and then we brought in Mr. MONEYBALL who had zero experience in football over the last .. i dunno 10 - 20 years .. this looked like a tool for him to prove how smart he is and how great moneyball and analytics were ...

They jury's still out on how it will work out ... one of the reasons i came back was because we were loaded for bear with cap space and we had draft picks out the ass .. this is our chance and although i did not like this FO and its set up one little bit ... i thought we had a shot based on the pure number of assets we had/have ...

I am not nearly as impressed with the off season as most .. not even close ... BUT .. they did nothing truely MORONIC and they made moves that make sense ... U can see what there trying to do here ... that in and of itself is massive improvement over the last 20 years .. *L* ... before I get to the draft ... lets look back and then we'll get to the present ...

The Plan - loved the plan .. they truely did a re-build .. IMO the right way ... they tore it down and truely gutted it .. there wasn't much to gut ... *L* .. no screwing around with a 1/2 or 3/4 gut so we win 3 or 4 games this year ... they GUTTED IT ... i said around week 12 or so last year that I LOVED THE PLAN ...

question was and still is .. can they execute the re-build ... so far I've seen nothing to suggest they can't ... doesn't mean they will .. as u well know its all about talent evaluation and aquiring said talent ... we'll know more in 3 years how they did at that .. lots of PIECES and lots of ways to BUILD IT ..

They made mistakes ... IMO the two big ones were letting Schwartz and Gabriel go ...

- Schwartz was MORONIC ... just stupid .. we still don't know if we have a RT .. just f'n STUPID .. my blood pressure just rose .. thats how bad i think it was .. *L* ..

We want to sign our own .. we want young guys with a future .. he fit both .. he comes back and we told him .. NAAA .. HELL WITH U ... made no sense them and still don't ..

- Gabriel scares me cause them and Hue got to see him in training camp .. his quickness and speed jump off the screen at u .. how the heck they did not see that is beyond me .. and i don't want to hear the BS excuses from the "fans that think they can do no wrong .. this was HORRIBLE .. hes a PLAYMAKER that can score every time he touches the ball .. by game 12 last year .. everytime he got the ball in his hands .. u moved to the edge of your seat anticipating what could happen ..

Bengi was way overpaid and not that good .. if they re-signed him it would have been a major mistake IMO ..

Gipson didn't want to be hear and i am not a huge fan of his .. well worth letting him walk and preserving the cap space ..

Mack didn't want to be here .. and i can't blame him .. not sure why some keep holding on to the fact he came back to give us a "chance" ... he listened .. decided he wanted to win more ... None of us have a clue weather they offered him the same, way more or way less for Mack .. not sure even way more would have mattered .. look what Hawkjust did with NE .. he turned down more money to sign with a team for a chance to win and he may not even make the team .. it depends on how u privatize winning and what your willing to do for it .. Joe T is the opposite end of that spectrum .. he's rather stay in a place he loves and not up root his family ... its WIN ... what's important now ...

I was fine with the first trade down last year ... would have rather took a player at 8 i believe it was .. but we did get a ton of picks for moving down again and still came away with one of the top 3 recievers in the draft .. not a fan of Coleman's but i get it .. lets see who he is this year ... lets hope I'm wrong about him .. LOVE the plan here .. EXECUTION is very questionable .. *L* ..

The rest of the draft .. very un-impressed with it ... to many CHOIR BOYS and "stat leaders" for my liking .. the 2nd rnd DE looks like he could be a pretty good player ... he really came on at the end of the year .. the rest ... meh ...

We have to see how these guys improve ... lets hope they did much better job than i think they did ..

Then we got a gift in Collins ... and one of the reasons he was given to us is because we were so bad Billicheck knew he couldn't come back to haunt him in the next few years ... that and Bill's a vindictive pr**k ... *L* .. he sent him to last years version of FOOTBALL HELL .. sorry folks .. its a fact .. and one that had nothing to do with this FO unless u want to bash them forthinking long term instead of 1/2 asking the tear down .. I'm a LONG TERM kinda guy ..

Re-signing is another story .. that dude put himself ahead of the team in NE .. PERIOD .. if u can't see that u prolly should quit reading now cause U have NO CLUE what happend in NE or u don't know football .. he had a roll to fill .. he didn't like it and just did whatever the hell he wanted .. ASSIGNMENTS BE DAMMED ... its about ME ...

Thats the bad part of re-signing him .. the bright side to me was we threw MONEYBALL out the window .. he's getting paid as an elite LB and he's not there .. he may be under Williams .. we OVERPAID for him and that was a GREAT SIGN to me ... then in FA we really threw MONEYBALL out the window .. we threw a ton of cash at almost every top tier FA ...

Collins is also young and has atheletic ability U can't teach ... lets hope he has the fire to prove Bill wrong .. if not, he may fizzle out now that he's got paid ...

I was not as impressed with this off season as most .. BUT they did nothing really stupid (well maybe not .. *L*) and definetly improved the OL .. I mean WTF .. we had a zillion dollars more in cap space than anyone else .. and we had 5 of the first 65 picks or so and the #1 and 8 picks i believe plus the first pick of rnd 2 ... in this loaded draft .. the "fans" from the board could have aquired some talent ...

We got the best OLman on the market .. he was way overpaid but thats the nature of FA .. we threw a ton of money at him and he came over .. we got the dude from GB .. he played multiple positions and was oft-injured and a back up ... we have no clue if he will be a good everyday center and counting on him for more than 1/2 a season is pretty optimistic .. he has never stood healthy and he's never been a full time starter .. when he's there .. he will be an upgrade but who knows how big of one ..

Pryor for Britt is a downgrade .. but there was nothing else out there and there's no way we should have signed Pryor for what he was looking for .. Pryor wanted the moon and no one wanted to pay it .. once he decided on a "prove it" contract we were eliminated from the equation unless your a moron ... *L* ..

Don't blame them for that one ..

So they did a very good job but IMO the best thing they did was not screw up .. not sure how good u have to be to go sign the best OLman in FA and replace one WR with another ..

The draft ...

I would have taken Mitch .. but garrett was the consesus #1 pick and was the right pick for this franchise now ... i was not at all impressed with his tape .. not at all .. lets hope he's a different player than i saw on tape ... u can't fault them for this pick ..

The major mistake they may have made was passing on Hooker at 12 i believe ... can't remember the exact spot .. i didn't like the trade down ... am not a fan of peppers at all .. but this is a perfect fit for him .. he is a really good athelete and he could excel in Williams D .. we'll see how it works out .. they aquired more picks that could be used as ammo to trade up for a qb next year or could be part of a trade for your boy JG ...

Our D should be MUCH IMPROVED just with the Williams hiring and his aggressiveness on D coupled with Collins pass rush ability and Garrets pass rush ability and Peppers playing a "hybrid" roll and just being a football player ... whose coming and from where .. that will make lesser guys a heck of a lot better .. Shelton could could a ton of pressures/sacks cause he will see a lot more single man blocking ..

I did not like the TE pick in the 2nd ... he had a lot of drops at miami .. was it concentration or bad hands ... hoping it was concentration .. *L* ..

The rest of the draft was OK .. taking a chance on Kizer there was a very good move .. a late 2nd for him .. and we didn't give up much at all to move up especially when u consider we'll go into next off season with a ton of cap space and lots of HIGH, QUALITY picks in the draft .. again .. EXECUTION is the key and we have no clue how that will work out ..

I also like the recent hire of a football guy that will be in the room every day with these guys .. we needed that IMO ..

I did not like this FO at all .. I'm warming up to them .. they have adapted and seem willing to change on the move as they see there weaknesses ..

The jury stills out .. but i can't look at anything they did this year and say .. WTF .. that makes NO SENSE ...

It all boils down to AQUIRING TALENT .. the jury's still out on that ... hopefully they can do it .. cause next year were going to have a TON OF CAP SPACE AGAIN and we are LOADED WITH HIGH QUALITY PICKS again ...

Lets see how it pans out ... there's FINALLY a LEGITE reason for the fans to have SOME HOPE ... now lets see how it works out over the next couple years ...

Forgot another good move .. that to me is a NO-BRAINER ...

Getting a 2nd for taking Brock ... *LOL* ... another gift they didn't turn down ...

Brock STINKS ... who cares .. we had plenty of cap space and we got a 2nd round pick for him .. TRADE BAIT or a shot at a quality player .. although this will be a low 2nd rnd pick ... but thats still not bad as we will have plenty of cap space again next year ...

Huge WIN/GIFT!!! WOOOOHOOOO ...

Fellow dawgs ... I'm about to demonstrate how u reply to mac ... if u would all follow my lead ...

Response to mac starts here:

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Response to mac ends here ...

If u would all respond to him like that .. we'd get to find out how long he'd talk to himself instead of saying the same thing A MILLION TIMES in different ways ..

I don't even know what he said .. i read about one of every 100 posts he makes ..

As Mikey would say ... "try it, you'll like it" ...

Good post, Diam. (Oh, and come on over to the 'positive' side; the sun shines much brighter here).

Fair enough. Please fill us in...

I'll stay firmly planted right here in reality bro .. cause when reality sets in and it starts raining on the false optimism ...

I get a sprinkle .. u guys get a hurricane ... *LOL* ...

I love the sunshine bro ... love it ... i was a surfer when i lived in Hawaii and a few other places .. and u can't surf without the sun my friend .. *LOL* ..

I just prefer to wait til its actually comes out before i go out in it ..

We'll see my friend .. hopefully i was WRONG .. I also love grilling in the sun ...... and i been been DYING to eat that CROW about our FO's for about 20 years now ...

GO BROWNS!!! .. WOOF WOOF ....

Good post, Diam. I wanted to respond, but I see the usual suspects are already making it about "sides."

I'll pass and you can play w/them.

Respond in pm then please .. would like to know your thoughts ...

My guess is many haven't even read it cause like me they don't even bother coming in to this thread .. i don't believe i ever even clicked on the last fo thread that was 15 or 16 pages long ..

Shoot me a pm and let me know what u agree and disagree with ...

Alright.

Daim not sureif you remember me but i've been a member of this board in 1 form or another since 2001.
anyway just wanted to say you should have said shoot me a pm.
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Ya .. i remember u ... how could one forget your handle ... i always pictured u as a Nordic Viking .. a big strapping dude in blond hair and in armor ... *L* ... not kidding though ....

damm you been around almost since day 1 ... what phase of the original board did u join during? .. did it have refs yet? ...

I hope all is well with u sir ...

I see no "sides" being taken, just a little "poking" to show Diam is ready for some sunshine and Mac trying to make his SAME case.
(which is beyond getting old. Mac.. please come to the present!!!

Actually Diam, that was an excellent post! A Lot of good points, the good news is we really appear to have a plan.
AND does seem like the FO folks are evolving vs. digging in with agendas. That is what I like most about this new FO setup along w/ coach Hue.

Of course we still need time to see if all this translates to wins, Unfortunately we have to start with finishing a season in a "competitive" state
which would be a HUGE improvement.

Your post also showed more optimism than you willing to admit ( which is fine)
because like many, need to be shown during the season.
The FO seemed to do more good than wrong which IS a major improvement.

i don't remember refs when i joined. hell my wife found the site and signed me in. i do remember 100 post made you a hall of famer. oh by the way i spell almost as bad as you do.

just to bust your bubble of me. i'm 5'10 maybe a buck 80 and 65 yrs old. not a viking, but a mason foreman. and no i don't have blond hair but it is light brown.

i forgot to say nordawg comes from me living in norwalk ohio thus nordawg

Good post... Overall I pretty much agree... I think the FO has done a pretty solid job... There's been a few moves I haven't agreed with and hope don't come back to haunt us... Agree that the Swartz move really hurt us... I would have liked to keep Pryor but understand why we didn't... Really wanted hooker at 12 but can't get upset that we still got a potentially good DB and an extra first rounder... Overall I have a little more faith in this FO as I've had with any other group since our rebuild...

January 24, 2017 Agreed to terms with LB Jamie Collins Sr. on a four-year contract.

February 7, 2017 Released QB Josh McCown and DB Tramon Williams.

February 16, 2017 Signed LS Charley Hughlett to a six-year contract extension.

February 27, 2017 Terminated the contract of WR Andrew Hawkins.

March 10, 2017 Signed G Joel Bitonio to a five-year contract extension.

March 10, 2017 Released QB Robert Griffin III.

March 29, 2017 Signed DL Jamie Meder.

April 17, 2017 Signed RB George Atkinson and DB Marcus Burley.

April 28, 2017 Released TE Gary Barnidge.

April 20, 2017 Terminated the contract of OL Alvin Bailey. Waived DBs Trae Elston and Tracy Howard.

April 17, 2017 Signed RB George Atkinson and DB Marcus Burley.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/transactions/_/name/cle/cleveland-browns

What the hell I'm bored again lol

I can agree with the guys we kept and agree with the ones we let go.

can't sign them all, especially the ones who are not that good.

Not sure where we don't or can't resign our own talent comes into play.

sounds like we are just talking about Mack and Scwartz again. Just those two.

If that is the case the title should be. "Why didn't we keep Scwartz and Mack".

Cleveland Browns: The wide receiver position is very concerning and unknown

by Ric McElroy16 hours ago
link

The Voice of the fan discussed another concern surrounding the Cleveland Browns’ offense that is not strictly focusing on the quarterback position.

After taking a look at the Cleveland Browns‘ roster following the draft, I hope they plugged some holes on both sides of the ball for the foreseeable future. As they build their team though, there is another question surrounding Cleveland besides the quarterback situation.

Yet, fans keep reading about that one irritating question year after year revolving around how the quarterback position will play out! Cleveland now has Brock Osweiler in the fold, who recently told local media that his film shows that he is in fact a NFL starter.

Although we won’t dig deeply into the question of the quarterback at this time, if Osweiler was that good, how come the Houston Texans benched him and were willing to trade him? So much so, Houston even seemed anxious to do so!

I digress back to the question at hand, which is what will we see from the wide receivers in 2017? Cleveland drafted four of them during the 2016 draft and didn’t get much out of them last year.

Yes, it may take another year or two of development for the Browns to find who their gems are and which players will be busts. Unfortunately, only one did much of anything and that was first round pick Corey Coleman. However, he was hurt part of the last season.

Coleman showed flashes of what we hope he will become. On the other hand, he would disappear over extended amounts of time. Coleman’s lack of size may hurt him a little now and going forward, but his route tree and separating from bump coverage were bigger problems in 2016.

According to pro-football-reference.com, Coleman accumulated 33 catches for 413 yards. Injuries impacted his rookie season, but still his overall numbers were disappointing. More was expected from the first drafted wide receiver!

Now what about free agent acquisition Kenny Britt? Although he had over a thousand yards in 2016, can Britt be Cleveland’s number one weapon? That remains to be seen.

Then there’s the uncertained futures with the rest of the 2016 WR draftees: Ricardo Louis, Jordan Payton,and Rashard Higgins. Per the same website, the trio combined for just 25 receptions last season. Payton has dealt with substance abuse and missed time, while the other two didn’t show much.




I almost choked when I read this story.

The Browns addedd 4 wrs in last year's draft, all made the team and now they have a year of NFL experience under their belt...the wr position should be a huge plus for team, not a concern or weakness.

Can't imagine any 'pro-Browns' site writing such a story.

LOL

We should have outbid ourselves for Pryor.

Any comments on my post tabber ... would love to hear them ...

I almost didn't post it cause I didn't know if it would actually be read because of the riveting, exciting, FRESH debate going on with mac ...

At least two or three of you read it and responded ... makes it well worth it ... at the risk of boring everyone and taking away from the great discussion with mac I'll respond to u out of common courtesy ...

I apologize to those engaged with mac ... please feel free to get back to your educational, groundbreaking discussion with mac ..

Psssst. That was just me doing some more poking ... its fun ... *LOL* ... glad u got it the first time around ..



I really like the fact there tweaking things on the fly ... like the hiring of the new guy .. not sure why some don't like the hire ... he's not our GM ... if that was the case it would be STUPID ... we needed a guy with football experience and he has that in spades and he started at the grass roots level so he has an understanding no one else in our FO did ..

I also like the fact they threw moneyball out the window ... that was one of my big concerns ...

The analytics can be a good tool .. everyone thinks my saying ... made famous in a previous era .. STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!! Means i don't understand how stats can be very useful .. i explained many times that it was the MIS-USE of stats that i hated ... but thats another story ...



That should be this year ... and by competitive I mean 6 wins or so ... i said starting around week 12 last year we should win 4 - 6 games next year ... will probably start a thread on that and why .. this way i won't have to bore mac's little groupies ... *L*



Like u said ... lets see how the guys they drafted pan out ... thats the key ... if they pan out we'll see the results in 2 or 3 years .. then these guys will either get extensions or fired ...