DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Thee Cody Kessler Thread

This may or may not be relevant, but I'm reminded of Colt McCoy's second season, where he entered the season as the starter. He was talked up regarding having improved arm strength. IIRC, his arm did look like it had a bit more pop, but it wore out quickly. As he got more throws and more hits into that arm, it weakened back to its previous popgun state.

I mention that because I approach any story about Kessler improving his arm strength with a heavy dose of skepticism.

Why does this thread show up, constantly, as not read.????

A bit on Osweiler:

For Brock Osweiler, the proof isn't in the film: Doug Lesmerises | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

BEREA, Ohio -- Benched by a playoff team in 2016 for a backup who'd thrown 19 career passes, Brock Osweiler doesn't get a clean slate in Cleveland, no matter how much he may want one.

Hue Jackson and the Browns coaching staff can decide how they want to view Osweiler in this quarterback battle, and what they see on the practice field should and will govern their decision.

But for everyone on the outside, Osweiler arrives dragging the anchor of a failed season with the Houston Texans, and we have a long way to go before what Osweiler could do in Cleveland should make anyone ignore what happened with the Texans.

Those pretending otherwise are fooling themselves. The question is whether Osweiler belongs in that category.

Speaking to reporters Wednesday for the first time since he was traded to the Browns on March 10, Osweiler said he didn't want to dwell on his season in Houston. If he doesn't want to rehash a coaching staff or a system that didn't fit him -- or whatever he may think about last year -- that's fine. We're not asking him to criticize the Texans if he doesn't want to.

But there was room for self-reflection or self-evaluation. His only dip into what he learned from Houston was basically to ignore outside criticism and "worry about the things that matter to you," like your teammates and preparation and practice.

OK ... but what about the play that caused the outside criticism? Osweiler isn't a victim here. He signed a four-year, $72 million contract to start for the Texans, and was dumped on the Browns with a second-round pick and will make $16 million from Cleveland this season no matter what he does.

He played a big role in his own problems. But when I asked him if the way he played a year ago would be good enough to help the Browns win, or whether he needs to improve, he didn't really answer.

"I'm not going to compare the two situations," Osweiler said. "One, they're two different teams. They're two different systems, offensively, how we do things. My sole focus right now is on this system, this team and being my absolute best I can possibly be for the Cleveland Browns."

What is the same? The quarterback. So that's what we have to judge. A quarterback who wasn't good enough a year ago, and a quarterback we have no reason to expect will be good enough now.

When I asked Osweiler if he was good enough to be a starter in this league, regardless of the system, he said "absolutely."

Twice.

So ... why?

As Osweiler stood off to the side of the Browns practice fields in Berea after the second day of OTAs, in a drizzle and surrounded by Cleveland reporters, that's what mattered.

Why do you think you are good enough, when every bit of proof from your big chance last season would say otherwise?

"I think the proof is in the film for the past two years," Osweiler said.

That's the quote that went wild Tuesday, picked up and pasted across the web before we had even finished interviews with the rest of the players made available, including two other quarterbacks. And in the moment, you can't let it stand. It's not reality. The film, at last year, would tell you the opposite.

"Some people would say the proof's not in the film, from last year," I said.

"That's OK," Osweiler said, nodding.

It's OK as long as Osweiler understands that as well, that his proof in the film really doesn't fly. Matching last year's film would be repeating failure.

Osweiler: Nobody plays to be a backup
Osweiler: Nobody plays to be a backup
Brock Osweiler aims to start for the Browns this year, but believes having to beat out Cody Kessler is the right approach: 'I'm the new kid on the block.'

So it's a quote, he handled himself fine, and some Browns fans, reacting on social media and calling into radio shows, thought my question was disrespectful. That surprised me. I didn't think the exchange was a big deal in the moment. The idea is basically the entire football world thinks Osweiler played poorly last year. To not be pressed on that makes no sense. He must be given the right to respond to that. And how he responds tells you a little something.

Because, for instance, this is what other people are saying about him.

Cian Fahey, a quarterback analyst I respect who has compiled a comprehensive quarterback evaluation guide the last two years, told me this on a Takes By the Lake podcast in March, days after the Osweiler trade, about the Browns' new QB.

"Whenever I talk about him, I feel hyperbolic," Fahey said. "He's just an atrocious quarterback."

So, clearly, he's not the answer for the Browns?

"Definitely. I don't think anyone should need to be told that," Fahey said. "Even when he was in Denver, he was a bad quarterback. ... There's nothing really to point to with him and say, 'OK, we're going to start him."

That's just one analyst, but a good one. And there aren't a lot of people out there banging the drum for Osweiler as the answer in Cleveland.

After the trade, Houston owner Bob McNair was stunned at the good fortune of dumping Osweiler.

"It was a shocker to me," McNair told the Houston Chronicle. "It was unbelievable."

Maybe Osweiler is a maybe. But while Cody Kessler and DeShone Kizer and Kevin Hogan are unproven so far, and therefore could do things we've never seen yet, Osweiler can't get a pass for Houston.

If he makes a good throw, or leads a scoring drive, or even manufactures a win as a Browns quarterback, he has to do it again. And then again. Because he has to escape what he wasn't a year ago.

The proof is in the film.

Damn shawty. Look at those macros

That's like Pickett saying he didn't want to dwell on the charge.

All joking aside, that reporter is a jackass... he just tried to bait BO into a gotcha moment and finally succeeded. He's taking a lot of heat for it.

Did you post that article to make Osweiler look bad? LOL

I posted the article because it is an article about one of our player.

My hope is that one of our QBs becomes a great QB, who can lead this team to continuous winning, and the Super Bowl. I really don't care which one it is.

However, out of all of the QBs on our roster, the 2 I have the least hope for are Osweiler and Hogan.

Also, we were debating Osweiler, and I posted an article in support of my position. If you post an article that is less than flattering about one of our players, do you do so "to make him look bad"?

Let's do the math. Kessler was drafted round 3. Kizer was drafted in round 2. Which QB do you feel this FO thinks is better?

Honest answer:

Today, Kessler
Future, Kizer

And that's probably true.

But you are forgetting Brock Oswieler. He actually has the ability to be the best we have. Not sure that's the way it will work out, but it's nice to have him if it is.

You would be able to gag me with a spoon if it turned out to be Hogan LOL

This is actually a Kessler thread. I started it because you kept talking about Kessler on other threads. Now, you don't want to talk about him. LOL

Also, that article was horrid. The dude should be fired for writing it. It was unprofessional, hateful, and biased.

I can buy this logic.

I simply hope they stand true to what they preach. Start Kessler make Kizer or Brock take it. Otherwise, see Goff last year.

Gc. It's not just the quarterback, it is the quarterback to wide receiver combination. Somebody has to catch the thrown ball, and the more chemistry they can develop as a combination the better.

I probably think Osweiler is ready to produce and be better than his past.
I also think all 4 Qb's will probably see action because of injuries, though Hogan may be gone and someone else will be that 4th.

I keep dismissing Osweiller's future contributions because when the signed him it was "so widely" reported they had no plans as a team to use him.
Which would mean what? Waive him at the 53 man roster cut down? I don't know!

I'm excited to see what all of the top 3 have to offer.
I think Cody is going to be better because DeShone is right there to push him. Otherwise he may have regressed.

I think Deshone is a little more wild, (unpolished as a pocket only guy), than maybe all would hope.

But no matter what, I think the chemistry between the individual Qb and the ballcatcher needs to be built.

And that this gets overlooked sometimes. Who are the number 1 receivers. Is it Britt, Coleman, Louis, and Njouku.

Actually I haven't seen anywhere that they plan to start Kessler. The only thing I've heard is he has been named starter heading into training camp.

Correct.

You almost HAVE to name a #1 at this point, but it really means nothing.

I think it goes even beyond what Pit said above about being a round earlier... you drafted Kessler in the 3rd, he had about 7 or 8 starts that you got to see him in live action... if you have any comfort level at all that he was going to develop into the answer, you don't use a 2nd the very next year on a new guy... you give Kessler this year with Osweiler behind him to show the improvement before you pull the trigger again. But that's not what they did. So I have to believe that they have doubts about Kessler or they are absolutely in love with Kizer...

Or they just saw value with Kizer at #52.

I don't think anyone is realistically thinking Kessler is the long-term answer. The question for me, is he a Hoyer-type game manager who can win by effectively using his available weapons. I don't envision him ever being a guy who can carry the team.

So even if he's the starter, we would still be looking for better.

OR, you start and use up BO if CK can't clearly outperform him. BO has more starts all things being equal, fewer concussions, more wins, and Kizer ripens on the pine. We take three into the season. I think we see more reps with BO than I care to believe, but he may be better than I expect (that bar is low). All noise for now. Glad some OTAs were "chippy" at times. I think we are going to see what we can do this season and still shopping.

Possibly wrong, but if we were tickled with the CK package after offseason, we would be less involved. Not the answer, but could be a fine backup. Should help us get a good read on Kizer's progresss. Wait & see (again!).

DeShone Kizer - QB - Browns

The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports DeShone Kizer is "on the fast-track" to winning the starting job.

Coach Hue Jackson said Kizer has been a "quick study." Kizer is being pushed hard to get up to speed as quickly as possible. Cody Kessler has been getting the majority of first-team reps, but it's starting to look like the Browns won't slow play Kizer if he shows enough to win the Week 1 job.

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer May 26 - 6:14 PM

It's not that I'm rooting against Kizer, I just hope that he's not our best option going into the season. I'm hoping that Kessler has improved enough to grab the starting job and perform ok within the offense that should be running the ball more often than not.

This makes no sense to me. Kessler was a dud last year. Teams game planned against him and Hue begged him to take advantage of it, but he either wouldn't or couldn't. Most likely it was both.

Kizer has way more physical abilities. Why in God's name would you not want him to start if he is ready?

Heck, I am already dreading the season because I think Cody is going to be the qb. It will be more of:

--Hue needs an OC.

--Hue is mean to Cody.

--Crow sucks.

--The OL sucks.

--Cody needs time.

--Cody has a great completion percentage.

--It's a team game and we are not losing because of Cody.

Sorry ober. You're a good dude and poster. I didn't mean to go off on you. I just don't get all the love for Kessler on here.

However, we all have opinions. Will you explain why you think Kessler is a better option than Kizer?

Ironic..........at best.

I like ober. But, Diam posted a report about Kizer soaking things up like a sponge and maybe being the opening day starter. Ober said that he hopes that Kessler is.

What's to interpret?

Interesting tid bit there.

He'd immediately improve the Offense just from his ability to Stretch the Field.

2 things are KEY if we go with Kizer.

1) We MUST run the ball. Effectively. ALL day.
2) We MUST control opponents Running games to keep games close in order to do #1. (See Dak Prescott 2016)

When Hue determines Kizer is READY. Go with him.

His excellent Deep Accuracy will be good for several big plays a game going off Play-Action based on a successful COMMITMENT to the running game.

It should be interesting how training camp unfolds. Kessler has the keys, but I think he'll be on a very short leash.

If the HC is spending extra time with a guy, it's for a reason.

Bro, I believe that the running game will open up if we have a qb who can make all the throws. Rather than the other way around.

it will go a long way towards opening running lanes. I think 2 te sets will as well.

Hue said that it's the other QB's job to beat out Kessler. He's in the lead right now.

By no means does that mean he'll be the starter game one. Hell, that doesn't even mean he'll start the first Pre Season game.

That's very true. Having said that I'll nail my opinion to the mast and say I am sure Kessler is going to surprise and start the season and play well enough to make it tough to pull him. I'm really looking forward to seeing his development. I know he's going to overcome the issue of throwing the ball deep to keep defenses honest (to me that's a mental aspect and Kessler is smart enough to know this is simply something he has to do) ... the arm strength and talent, well we'll just have to see.

Some of that sounds vaguely familiar -- LOLetc.

I agree with the dread part, where I am hoping CK gets beaten by someone better than him because I am not convinced he is a starter except out of crisis going forward.

Poinnt of the post: Kind of nebulous, but also crucial IMO. How does Hue & Co. define "ready" for starting QB? Seems that any convenient metric will do either way. By that, I mean rationale to start or to sit Kizer. It is a given he is not ready, but working. What is the minimum to start? Kizer will need to grow and adjust if he is a keeper and proves it. Just hope Hue isn't going to gin up a QB controversy over a talent-limited group. Not sure that defining "ready" has been discussed here, but, just like butts, everybody has a personal yardstick and uses it regularly. Lame, I know, but what is "ready"?

In my poll, I voted "start him if he's the best option". So far, the lead goes to "sit him for a year," which is what I sort of expected to see (though it's still early). If we had picked him in 2016, we'd all be all a-twitter to have him start.

He clearly has the tools: the size, the zip, the velocity, and can make all the throws. He works the pockets extremely well, doesn't bail too early, keeps his eyes down field, and doesn't get rattled under pressure. So now it's about learning the system, and improving his mechanics so the ball doesn't sail or fly into the dirt. Next, it'll be about reading defenses, (this is my main concern, does he see the field well enough?) consistency in his throws, situational passing, commanding the huddle, anticipation (speed of the game), and developing chemistry with the WRs. If he makes major strides in those areas between now and the end of TC, he will definitely beat out Kizer (and Brock), and should get the starting nod.

We suck at QB, we need a good one. He could and should be that guy. So get him in there.

JMHO

I believe it all depends on what your definition of ready is.

Some people consider that to mean being polished.

IMO, being the best option to win games at the time makes you ready. If you give your team the best chance of wining and competing on a weekly basis, that's as ready as you're going to get.

I believe both Brock and Kizer don't have far to go in order to qualify under that definition of being ready.

Learning the playbook and throwing a football are two completely different things. I doubt Kizer plays this year without serious injury.

How many weeks did Kessler have to learn the playbook before he started? And some posters feel he's good enough to be our starter. Just sayin'.

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to believe that Kessler won't be the long term starter. I also don't think it's reasonable to believe he won't take a jump in his second year. Therefore, I don't think any definitive conclusions can be drawn either way.

Just have to let it play out.

I would say that I have to agree with you. The only thing I do know for sure is that they drafted Kessler in round three and after one season, jumped on what they considered a great value on Kizer in round two the following year. I'd say that gives us some indication on how they value the two QB's.

I don't think anyone thinks he's good enough to be the starter. However he's certainly the best QB we have.