DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Kizer Thread

Since I didn't see one, and it looks like the Kessler thread is being hijacked, I thought Kizer should have his own thread. I'll start by copying my reaction to his potential move up the depth chart:

In my poll, (be sure to vote if you haven't already) I voted "start him if he's the best option". So far, the lead goes to "sit him for a year," which is what I sort of expected to see (though it's still early). If we had picked him in 2016, we'd all be all a-twitter to have him start.

He clearly has the tools: the size, the zip, the velocity, and can make all the throws. He works the pockets extremely well, doesn't bail too early, keeps his eyes down field, and doesn't get rattled under pressure. So now it's about learning the system, and improving his mechanics so the ball doesn't sail or fly into the dirt. Next, it'll be about reading defenses, (this is my main concern, does he see the field well enough?) consistency in his throws, situational passing, commanding the huddle, anticipation (speed of the game), and developing chemistry with the WRs. If he makes major strides in those areas between now and the end of TC, he will definitely beat out Kizer (and Brock), and should get the starting nod.

We suck at QB, we need a good one. He could and should be that guy. So get him in there.

JMHO

i'm intrigued to see him after some time with coaching, progressing, etc ... My hope is that he and Chip just hated each other and it was toxic. Hopefully Hue can correct some of his mechanical issues

This whole paragraph, I think it's accurate. The part I highlight will dictate when he can get on the field. When he's performing consistently in these areas he becomes the starter. As one guy from the 419 to another, I CAN wait. I'll be surprise if he masters all of that by week one but I won't be surprised if he's developed well enough by week 10.

Any word on how he's doing in camp?

It's early, and he's not getting many reps. The big story last week was about a sweet, accurate throw (deep out, I believe) to the sideline, followed by an INT thrown behind the WR (on a crossing route, again, I believe). To me that says he needs to get used to anticipating where the WR is going to be, and speed of the game. Not unusual coming out of college.

Frankly, guard, I'm not advocating rushing him in there if he's not ready, but if he's our best option, I say why not?

A little bit here: (from the Plain Dealer)


1. Cody Kessler didn't throw many long passes. Jackson praised Kessler for having "more zip" on the ball. It did appear he had more velocity than a year ago on some short and medium throws.

2. As usual, Kessler was very accurate. He also is ahead of the other quarterbacks because he knows the offense.

3. Osweiler was the No. 2 quarterback. He is all of 6-foot-7. He made 6-foot-4 rookie DeShone Kizer look short. And both of those guys made the 6-foot-1 Kessler look small. Size helps, but it's not everything or 6-foot-6 Derek Anderson would be all-pro.

4. Osweiler connected with Corey Coleman on a long pass. He threw a ball behind a receiver, it was tipped and intercepted. All the quarterbacks had iffy moments.

5. So far, so good with Shon Coleman at right tackle. He is being given the first shot at the job. Cameron Erving is behind him. Joe Thomas has been very complimentary of Coleman.

6. I thought Spencer Drango would be in the mix for right tackle, but he's playing a lot of guard. The reason could be Joel Bitonio still recovering from foot surgery. He is not taking part in full practice. So Pro Bowler Kevin Zeitler and Drango are the starting guards now.

7. I'm not going to spend a lot of time analyzing a few throws made by Kizer at the one open practice this week. He's an impressive physical specimen. He has a strong arm. He made a few excellent throws and a few "What is he doing???" heaves.

8. Remember, Kizer never worked out of a huddle or took snaps under center in college. He rarely even varied the snap count. It was all very basic, and very unlike life for an NFL quarterback.

9. Rashard Higgins made a very nice catch on a long throw to the back shoulder by Kizer. Good play on both sides. Higgins was my pick last season to be a good receiver, but he didn't show much. He caught only six passes. I still think he can help the Browns.

10. Rookie Matthew Dayes caught a couple of long passes. The running back from North Carolina State was considered a good pass catcher in college and it shows.


DeShone Kizer is glued to Hue Jackson to fast-track chances of winning Browns QB job | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer knows he can't stray out of earshot from the quarterback whisperer.

Wherever Kizer goes on the practice field, coach Hue Jackson follows.

The second-round pick is not only the teacher's pet right now, he's the teacher's pet project. If he's to beat out Cody Kessler for the starting job, he knows he has to be joined at the hip with the guy calling the plays -- and the shots.

"It's great," Kizer said Wednesday after the open organized team activities practice. "It's exactly what I expected when I got brought over to this club. Coach Jackson ... said that's exactly how he goes about his quarterbacks and he's held up to it."

When Kizer took reps with the first-team offense and hurled a perfect deep ball to receiver Rashard Higgins, Jackson was right there to congratulate him. When he was picked off a few plays later by safety Ibraheim Campbell on a short pass, Jackson immediately pointed out what went wrong.

"As soon as I told him what the mistake was, he goes, 'Got it,' " Jackson said. "Now, he's like that. He does pick things up pretty quickly."

The second-round pick out of Notre Dame, Kizer has no plans to make the same mistake twice.


"I'm still trying to figure this thing out,'' he said. "We were in a blitz period and they were sending a couple of different looks at me. I'll go back and watch film and I bet you won't see that same pick ever again.''

Conversely, he has plenty more of those deep connections planned.

"That's all I'm trying to do right now is get the confidence where I can just go out and let it rip all the time,'' Kizer said. "That's a prime example of when I'm out there and can be completely content with what's going on on defense ... and I can go out there and just let that ball rip. But there's other plays where I'm still fluttering around in the huddle and I get out there and I don't have that confidence to let it rip.

"The more I learn, the better I'll continue to go out there and (complete) those type of balls.''

Kizer aims to start as fast as he can

But with Jackson always in his ear, Kizer hopes he's on the fast track to playing time.

"It allows me to start my learning curve a little faster when you have the guy who's calling the plays, the guy who's created this offense ... teaching you every day the fundamentals,'' Kizer said. "It pushes you a little quicker than if it was someone else."

Jackson, who's been waiting for a strong-armed, mobile quarterback to come along, admits "I want to make sure I have my hand on him as much as I can."

It started in rookie minicamp two weeks ago. While Jackson spends extra time with Kizer, Cody Kessler, Brock Osweiler and Kevin Hogan get more of new QBs coach David Lee.

"I will continue to do so,'' Jackson said Wednesday. "I have to find out probably more about (Kizer) than I do any of the guys. He's not going to get too far away from me, I know that. He's done a good job. He just has to keep getting better. He's improved from day to day."

Jackson has found Kizer to be a quick study.

"There's a lot thrown at him now, but he's doing a good job,'' he said. "He's been better than some guys I have been around [while working against] our defense and all of the different things our defense does, which is only going to make our guys better.''

Jackson's eyes widened over the pass to Higgins, because he needs a good long ball to run his offense effectively.

"He can throw it,'' said Jackson. "I think we all know that. ... He has to learn how to play the game the way we want it played in our system. He's growing every day, but a lot of our guys are. Hopefully, you can see that there is better quarterback play throughout practice.''

Kizer (6-4, 233) wasn't surprised to learn in rookie minicamp that Kessler would get first crack at the starting job. The rotation in OTAs was Kessler, Osweiler, Hogan and Kizer, but Kizer did get some first-team reps.

"[Kessler as OTA starter is] exactly what we expected,'' Kizer said. "Cody earned that respect and he's a guy who understands this offense with a level that allows him to be out there first. He's gone out and he's made all of the corrections that he wanted to make this off-season, has some velocity on his ball and he's a heck of a quarterback.

"I'm just looking to him now for guidance. ... He's out there running everything as if he was a 10-year veteran and that's exactly where I want to be one day.''

Kizer will accelerate his learning curve even more this off-season by working out in Los Angeles with Jackson's hand-picked biomechanics expert, Tom House. In the meantime, he didn't feel out of place when the vets arrived this week.

"I think I'm fitting in fine,'' he said. "The best thing for me right now is to not compare myself to those guys. I'm at a completely different level than they are. This is all brand new to me, so to compare myself to someone that's that far ahead of me would be probably tragic on my end because my self-esteem would go down. But at the same time, I'm holding myself to the same standards they are.''

So is his personal QB coach.

I said something similar in another thread but I believe it bears repeating.

A lot of talk about Kizer "being ready" has been said. But let's look at what that really means.

It's the HC's job to try to win games. A QB is ready when he gives his team the best chance of winning over the other QB's on the roster.

I know that's not what some others believe about a QB being ready, but for an owner, FO and coaching staff their decisions will be based on who gives their team the best chance to win. When looking at last years record and hearing Hue complain about the ball not being thrown downfield, that bar may not be as high as some posters think it is.

I'd be surprised if Kessler isn't our starter in week 1. Kizer needs time IMO (I know that we all want to see what we got with him, but it's probably unwise to play him)

True that. But at the same time there's more to it than the downfield throws. There's accuracy between the chains and just past the first down marker. There's reading coverages and understanding defenses. There's understanding complicated blitzes, recognizing them quickly as well as knowing beat them. The list goes on.

Those things beyond downfield passing accuracy do raise that bar pretty high. Being ready is being able to conquer all of it. Kessler has to throw better deep balls and more often. He also has to make quicker decisions to get rid of the ball quicker. A lot of the other areas he's doing well and once the game slows for him he should be even better.

If Kizer can approach Kessler's good game, plus, have an accurate deep ball and knowing when to take the chance then maybe he's ready to be the best opportunity to win.

While what you say is very true, I believe my bottom line sentiment is correct. Being ready means that the FO and coaching staff feels you give your team the best chance to win. I was simply pointing out one part of Kesslers game we already know Hue isn't happy with.

If the 'rookie' beats out the others for day one, we need to clean house. He should sit until we need him or for the year. I want to see what we have in Kessler and Oswieler before we even think about trotting Kizer out on the field.

I agree with Pit that the ultimate standard that any of the QBs should be evaluated on is if they give the team the best chance to win. I do quibble somewhat with him framing it by evaluating one guys deficiencies as a major factor for selecting another guy to start. I'd hope that the evaluation is about the selected player's strengths not the other guys' weaknesses.

Again, who is the best option to get us wins. If and when Kizer clearly becomes that option it would be negligent to sit him. Hue will know that way before any of us. He might know that and fans might not get to see much playing time to demonstrates why the choice was made. I'm comfortable with that any way it falls.

I was simply pointing out a deficiancy our HC used in public comments.

I get what you're saying. Its probably more the idea that the evaluation might be an assessment of negatives rather than a measure of who has the positive attributes best suited for the position. It's kind of a "backing into" the starting position that would be problematic, to me.

I did say that I absolutely agree with your metric for deciding the starter. That should count for something, LOL

I don't think we will sit Kizer all year. If Kessler gets injured Kizer may have to come in and play.

Of course if Cody gets injured there's always Brock Osweiler...

Fixed it

Didn't he have like 2-3 concussions last season?

Yep, I think it was 2? Not sure. Anyhow, that's why I've been telling people he's like one or two concussions away from retiring. Kinda scary for him.

He had two ... plus the chest/shoulder area injury in the pats game ...

Concussions really worry me with him ... it seems once a player starts with them ... they keep getting them and seem a lot to easier to get ... thats just my observation over the last 5 or 6 years since they've come to the spotlight ..

It's true Diam.....

One Concussion Increases Risk of More

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20031118/one-concussion-increases-risk-of-more#1

There are several articles confirming this from several sources.