DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum DL...who makes the team?

Lot's of talk about the Dline all over the board, so maybe it best to concentrate it in a thread abouyt the topic.

Unless I missed somebody, we have 14 defensive linemen on the roster. They are as follows:

C Brantley
D Bryant
T Coley
X Cooper
M Garrett **
T Holmes
L Stample-Nile
J Marcus
J Meder
C Nassib
E Ogbah **
L Ogunjobi **
K Shultz
D Shelton **

Going to a 4-3 of sorts, we will probably keep more linemen, but how many? 8? 9? I think 8 is probably the number.

For me, I am not going to cut guys in my first post. I have marked the players who are probably on the team based on play or draft position. Four players IMO opinion are on the team. The others have to make the roster.

Who are they?

C Brantley **
D Bryant **
T Coley
X Cooper
M Garrett **
T Holmes
L Stample-Nile
J Marcus
J Meder * (#9?)
C Nassib **
E Ogbah **
L Ogunjobi **
N Orchard ** (can double as the 6th LB for ST if we keep 9 on the DL)
K Shultz
D Shelton **

Your choices would be mine as well.

Of that selected group, I think Orchard has his work cut out for him with a/your good point that he could double as the 6th LB and play STs. I could easily see us go with only (5) true, 4-3 LBs.

Maybe Holmes gives Orchard a run for his money at that "spot".

I don't know who will make the team, but I have my opinion who should make the team, provided all are healthy.

Garrett
Ogbah
Shelton
Bryant

I would like see the other guys play more before picking the rest.

I can see that. I included Ogunjobi due to his draft position this year. You don't generally see a 3rd rounder cut right of of the box.

I can also see Bryant being a camp cut or a trade chip. If he is still hurt or over the hill, cut, possibly traded if we get in to a numbers game.

Yeah, I tried to highlight should vs would. I agree that a high round pick is almost certain to make the team. Heck, even a low round guy has a great shot. We saw that last year, especially w/our WRs.

Most regimes in the NFL keep their own guys vs guys from previous regimes. It's one of the reasons a lack of continuity is so destructive to the success of an organization.

This would be my guess, as of now, with Meder possibly on the bubble:

C Brantley
D Bryant
X Cooper
M Garrett **
J Meder
C Nassib
E Ogbah **
L Ogunjobi **
D Shelton **

Probably mine as well. It's hard to say with Meder. We have inside players. I'd keep Meder over Nassib, but he plays outside. Doesn't seem to be as much depth out there.

And then there's the issue of health. Meder has been on the field. Bryant is an unknown at this point. What's the saying, the most important ability is availability?

FWIW:

Is Desmond Bryant the next veteran on the Browns endangered list?

by Thomas Moore

The Cleveland Browns continue to go young in their latest rebuild. Does that put defensive lineman Desmond Bryant on the veteran endangered list?

The Cleveland Browns have spent the better part of two years now working to create a young roster that, if everything goes according to plan, will grow together into a dominant presence.

That is evident across the roster, but no more so than along the defensive line. The Browns added Danny Shelton and Xavier Cooper in 2015, Emmanuel Ogbah, Carl Nassib and Tyrone Holmes in 2016, and Myles Garrett, Larry Ogunjobi and Caleb Brantley in this year’s draft.

Along the way, the club has also purged itself of numerous veteran players — most notably those over the age of 30 – to the point where there are currently just four players on the roster who are 30 or older.

Related: Is John Greco the next veteran on the endangered list?

That quartet includes left tackle Joe Thomas and punter Britton Colquitt, who are not going anywhere, right guard John Greco, who may see his roster spot slipping away, and defensive lineman Desmond Bryant, who could be next in line to see his time in Cleveland come to an end.

His six sacks in 2015 was good enough to lead the team, which pretty much tells you all you need to know about Cleveland’s pass rush.

The nine-year veteran missed all of last season after suffering a torn pectoral muscle, however, and will be heading into training camp looking to grab what is quickly becoming a dwindling number of roster spots.

The Browns only kept eight defensive lineman on the 53-man roster when they broke training camp last year, and outside of an injury Shelton, Ogbah, Nassib, Garrett, Ogunjobi and Jamie Meder have roster spots locked up. If the Browns like what they see from Brantley, who they selected in the sixth round of this year’s draft, he will likely make the final roster as well.

So that is seven players right there, meaning that Bryant will be up against Cooper, Holmes and Nate Orchard – who is moving to defensive end in a bid to save his career — for what very well could be just one roster spot.

Bryant is not a bad player by any stretch and he has been a good person to have on the roster as he brings traits to the field that coaches like.

But the landscape is clearly changing on the Browns roster and Bryant could be caught up in a numbers game that does not favor him in any way.

Link

I forgot about Orchard. I didn't see him listed as a DL...I may have picked up LB. I think Orchard might push Nassib off the roster.

Rather than guess who's going to make it I'd just put them in groups.

Myles, Danny, ogbah, nassib, ogungobi are safe.

Bryant and brantley are very likely to be 6 and 7.

So that leaves 1 to 2 spots for Holmes, meder, cooper and orchard. Probably likely that at least one of these guys gets the ir before final cuts. I think Holmes is most likely to make it. Most would say orchard or meder. My stance is Holmes is the only one brought in by the current regime, fits the high end sparq profile and should do well as a special teamer with his athletism. Meder may have signed a contract but most don't realize he wasn't given a signing bonus or guarantees. That never happens. Wouldn't surprise me if he was to be cut and agreed to stay for vet minimum. Even camp bodies get signing bonuses. That tells me Jamie was desperate. Orchard should stay but I don't think he's a big candidate to resign give our depth chart so it wouldn't surprise me to see him traded in the preseason for change.

j/c:

Looking at those list of players makes me excited about our potential depth and productivity of the DL. I consider a few things when guessing how it will unfold:

1. I don't think expectations are that this team will "shock the world" or anything when competing for the playoffs. Thus younger players who show value may get the nod over vets.(the same can be said for any other position). If players like Brantley and Ogunjobi show up, it justifies releasing Bryant and/or Cooper. Sorry, but it just does and there is precedent for it happening all the time.

2. Guys drafted early (Rounds 1-3) in the past couple of years are safer than others. No one necessarily wants to admit fault and we have two systems in two years.

3. Guys not drafted/signed by this regime might be at a disadvantage. People tend to keep their own, right. We've seen this all before.



Garrett, DE
Holmes, DE
Orchard, DE
Nassib, DE
Ogbah, DE

Brantley, DT
Meder, DT
Ogunjobi, DT
Shelton, DT


I'm hoping Williams would want a healthy rotation on the line so I went with 9 players. Plus with injuries and maybe not needing as many bodies for the LB corp allow for 9. Plus players like Holmes, Orchard, and Nassib can play ST too. Maybe Tabor will have a say in keeping one or two he likes.

Me too. Hm. That may actually be the one true area of competition on the D-line (Orchard/Nassib). Any way Nassib moves to OLB?

This is a good point. If Bryant even smells like he can't stay healthy, or if Cooper is edged by the competition, they both could easily be gone (traded?).

I don't believe Nassib can play LBer.

One note: It's tough cutting LBers because they are needed on Special teams. You don't see too many QBs, o-linemen, and d-linemen on coverage and return teams. LBers help in those areas because most have a combination of size, speed, and strength.

I think a lot of our final roster decisions last year really hampered the Special teams' play. It's a big part of the game and I hope we rectify that issue this year.

is that because his size is a poor fit for the 4-3, or is it a skill set issue?

IMO, Meder is one on the bubble now. I'm not sure he makes it.

LDE - Ogbah, Nassib
NT - Shelton, Meder
DT - Brantley, Ogunjobi
RDE - Garrett, Orchard

If we go with 9 guys then I see Dez Bryant or Cooper making the team. I could also see T. Holmes replacing Orchard.

All 3. He'd be the tallest lb in the NFL and he has very minimal if any experience in coverage or playing in space.

FYI:

https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/869941242469154816

I expect that we will keep 9 DL. (maybe even 10) Some of our DL may be of the 34 OLB size, which is to be expected.

We will have heavy rotation on the DL, to keep guys fresh. I see us keeping only 6 LB, (maybe only 5) because we won't need to bring in a different LB for nickel/dime situations.

I think that we will use DB, TE, and WR to make up the core of our special teams.

Good discussion on the DL. What's really nice is that we seem to finally have some good young talent and depth on D. That's a welcome change and great to speak about. I hope they all grow and we finally have a D we can be proud of!!!

I honestly didn't expect him to ever be back here

If they felt as good about meder or cooper as they do about devalve I'm sure Bryant would have been cut just like barnidge. Clearly they dont.

I think Bryant's explosion off the snap is something that we really need. I am hoping we do the right thing and keep him, provided he is healthy, of course.

Im probably bryants biggest supporter but I could definitely see him being cut. He won't be around in 2 years

I am not arguing that. I am saying that he should not be cut. Getting rid of your better players is not a good thing.

Good grief, what would prompt such a bold statement? Nassib is getting a bad rapp from some posters on here and I think that none of it is warranted. The 5t was a terrible position to put a 275 lb rookie DE in.

What I saw was a young player who though playing out of position, a guy who got good pressure and or PD when healthy.

He will be playing a more natural position in our 42.5 defense and with a year of pro conditioning and weight training, imo this kid future is bright.

I couldn't agree more. He is our best inside pass rusher.

If we can use him as a 3rd down rusher, we can maximize his pass rush ability and keep him away from IR.

I expect we will carry 10 DL. 5 backers and a dozen defensive backs. Williams attacks hard with his front 4 so you need more rushers. Carry a few extra backers on practice squad, in case of long term injury. Collins can play all 3 backer positions, Kirksey can fill wil or Mike. gives u more flexibility. Neither are coming off the field, unless they ask for it.

Its all about competition and aggression. Fire under asses will sort out the weak. Orchard and Bryant could be huge assets but they will have arguably the most to prove.

What about Cam Johnson ?

Not to put words in his mouth, but I don't think it was an aspersion against Nassib, but more about the numbers game at the final cutdown. His overall point being, do we keep 8? 9? Doubtful we keep 10. One or two players we like, good players, may have to go. It kinda sucks, but it's a good problem to have... for a change.

You have to love his motor, and I'm really curious about how he looks in his second year.

Yeah, was a little out of line with the old boy.

Sorry peen, but you are talking about a high 3rd round pick from just last year.

I agree. I mentioned that earlier. It's not like a lineman can really help in other areas. As you said, backers add some braun and decent speed. DBs add speed and many have return skills. To keep a lineman, he has to have specific skills you can count on as a rep player. You can keep a Tank Carder who isn't going to seem many 1-2-3 down reps but can really help in the coverage game.

Given the injuries in the past, we might keep nine. I agree with your choices. Is Nassib a keeper?

If we do go eight, do you see us moving say 2 or 3 to practice squad? I REALLY am interested in seeing these guys play for the new DC; the Horton show should not be the basis for this group in my opinion. I like Desmond a bunch; I keep him if he plays hard.

This is interesting problem to have; hope to read more in this thread.

I think you guys clamoring for Bryant are gonna be sadly disappointed.

Coming off a Torn Pec and the wrong side of 30 doesn't bode well.

With this BS of no cutdowns to 75 going directly to 53, there's gonna be a crazy signing period when everyone is cut at once when teams are ready to prep for week one.

The Browns, and every other team should show some respect for the Veteran guys they intend to release. Do it LONG before the cutdown to 53. This includes Bryant. He's not part of our future. Not even our immediate future.

The sight of Desmond Bryant back out on the Browns’ practice field on Wednesday afternoon was a welcomed one.

Bryant, who missed the 2016 season because of a torn pectoral muscle, returned to action for the first time in almost a year as Cleveland wrapped up Day 5 of OTAs.

Asked of that dynamic, head coach Hue Jackson nodded his head and described the veteran defensive lineman as “one of my favorites,” referencing their 2011 season together in Oakland.

Because of that dynamic, Jackson and the Browns were once counting on Bryant to be a force on a youth-laden defensive line that struggled to consistently apply pressure on opposing quarterbacks last year.

“It was disappointing we did not have him this past year,” Jackson said. “I thought he was one of the missing links in our football team. He is a veteran player, knows how to play, extremely tough, extremely bright and loves football.”

This time last year, Bryant -- who totaled six sacks and 33 tackles in 2014 -- had emerged as something of a leader before suffering the injury in June while working out on his own. As such, Jackson said the Browns will ease Bryant back into the swing of things over the next few months.

“He hasn’t been around us. He is back in the weight room, back on the practice field working in individual and doing some things,” Jackson said, “and we’ll get him back to where he needs to be.”

It was, however, still hard for Jackson not to imagine what his defensive line might look like this season with
Bryant, 2015 first-round pick Danny Shelton,
Emmanuel Ogbah and 2017 No. 1 overall pick
Myles Garrett.

Cleveland also features a linebackers group that includes Jamie Collins Sr., Christian Kirksey and Demario Davis.

“When I think of him and the rest of our front seven and potentially what it could be, that is exciting,” he said.

“That is exciting because if he can go back and be the player that he was, it is going to give us a huge boost. We did not have him at all a year ago so I think he is going to be a good player for us.”

My thing is Bryant as of right now is not in danger or he would've been cut already. Clearly they are ok with the cash he's making. It will take 1 of 2 things to cut him and they work together.

1.)His own skill. If he has diminished skill because of his injury or age he becomes in danger

2.)the rest of the dt room. If anyone surprases what the FO expect right now he becomes in danger

However if both of things happen he's more than in danger, he is likely gone.