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How did the Rams fare in giving up big passing plays last year? As far as deep passing according to football outsiders they were 20th especially failing towards the left deep but below average overall. Especially failed at limiting the no1 wr and slot wr. Pretty good against TE and RB though. Rams had Todd Gurley and couldn't mustard any offense. I think that speaks volumes why the defense faulted. Yeah, they were always falling behind and had to play ketchup. 
Last edited by lampdogg; 05/28/17 07:11 PM.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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How did the Rams fare in giving up big passing plays last year? As far as deep passing according to football outsiders they were 20th especially failing towards the left deep but below average overall. Especially failed at limiting the no1 wr and slot wr. Pretty good against TE and RB though. Rams had Todd Gurley and couldn't mustard any offense. I think that speaks volumes why the defense faulted. Yeah, they were always falling behind and had to play ketchup. Ah geez, lamp... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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How did the Rams fare in giving up big passing plays last year? As far as deep passing according to football outsiders they were 20th especially failing towards the left deep but below average overall. Especially failed at limiting the no1 wr and slot wr. Pretty good against TE and RB though. Rams had Todd Gurley and couldn't mustard any offense. I think that speaks volumes why the defense faulted. Yeah, they were always falling behind and had to play ketchup. Made my night dude lol
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How did the Rams fare in giving up big passing plays last year? As far as deep passing according to football outsiders they were 20th especially failing towards the left deep but below average overall. Especially failed at limiting the no1 wr and slot wr. Pretty good against TE and RB though. Rams had Todd Gurley and couldn't mustard any offense. I think that speaks volumes why the defense faulted. Yeah, they were always falling behind and had to play ketchup. Ah geez, lamp... I relish this quote.
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Without your color coding, someone mayo verlook the condiment references.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Nickel:
DL:Ogbah-Brantley-Cooper-Garrett
LB:Kirko-Collins
DB:(FS)Reynolds-(SS)Pepper-(NB)Boddy-(CB)Taylor,McCourty/(Haden)
Speed Nickel:
DL:Collins-Ogbah-Brantley-Garrett
LB:Kirko-PEPPERS
DB:(FS)Reynolds,(SS)Kindred/Powell-(NB)Boddy-(CB)Taylor,McCourty/(Haden)
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I think Shelton would surprise in the nickel - he is explosive for sucha big guy and simply having him would create gaps for the others. Just MHO - I'd rather play him over Cooper. I think Shelton and Brantley / Ogunjobi (sp) would be a formidable pairing.
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Nickel...not sure on what Williams does. What I would do is following.
One DL out, Davis out Orchard in.
DL (3) Garrett, Ogbah, Nassib/Cooper/LarryO/Brantley who ever has their game going the best and is fresh!
LB (3) Collins, Kirksey and Orchard.
DB (5) Haden, Taylor, Boughty, Powell, Peppers.
Rush 3-6 men... the extra pass rushers come in blitz mode from LBs - DBs
Dime Orchard out and McCourty in.
Also pending on our opponents and their game plan we could see another CB in 1 LB...Extra Safety in Could be many many looks out of our D.
jmho
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j/c
Does anyone know if GW coaches from the box or sideline on gameday?
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Yes I saw that game at Heinz Stadium.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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How did the Rams fare in giving up big passing plays last year? As far as deep passing according to football outsiders they were 20th especially failing towards the left deep but below average overall. Especially failed at limiting the no1 wr and slot wr. Pretty good against TE and RB though. Rams had Todd Gurley and couldn't mustard any offense. I think that speaks volumes why the defense faulted. Yeah, they were always falling behind and had to play ketchup. Ah geez, lamp... I relish this quote. I don't, it puts them in a pickle
Last edited by dawgpound101; 05/29/17 07:04 PM.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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I'm assuming u posted your thoughts for discussion....so here's what popped in my head reading your personnel ideas for nickel
o predator posted GWill's nickel/dime tendencies earlier
o why a 3 man DL on nickel? why Orchard over the other options at LB...isn't he at his best as a hand in the dirt edge rusher?
o why Haden over McCourty?
o why start 2 S w/ 0 starts? other then him going to OH why start Powell over Reynolds?
Last edited by edromeo; 05/29/17 08:49 PM.
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Rams had Todd Gurley and couldn't mustard any offense. I think that speaks volumes why the defense faulted.
Yeah, they were always falling behind and had to play ketchup. Ah geez, lamp... I relish this quote. I don't, it puts them in a pickle I'm surprised at everyone's glibness... this is a big dill after all.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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I'm assuming u posted your thoughts for discussion....so here's what popped in my head reading your personnel ideas for nickel
o predator posted GWill's nickel/dime tendencies earlier
o why a 3 man DL on nickel? why Orchard over the other options at LB...isn't he at his best as a hand in the dirt edge rusher?
o why Haden over McCourty?
o why start 2 S w/ 0 starts? other then him going to OH why start Powell over Reynolds?
2. 3 man DL thought process is that we got excellent blitzing LB and SS (Peppers) One of them will become our 4th Rusher.
2.b. I'm sorry but you are talking about college. In the NFL he's been a 2 point guy but if that truly is the case there is no reason as a LB he can come up and put his hand in the ground.
But what I envision is the greatest SACK season we had and that was in 2001 with Jamir Miller lining up outside of our DE and blitzing from there. I can see all 3 Collins, Kirksey and Orchard having success there. Better than bringing in lets say a Nassib or another.
3. Why Haden over McCourty. If healthy Haden hands down I don't see the debate on this one.
4. Why start a Safety without starts. My thought process is that he wins the job. If its Reynolds that wins it fine with me. Reynolds has one more year than Powell.
For me its a new D system so None have experience playing in it. I do think that playing with Seattle he learned a lot in his one year. He did get 8 games of experience but I think some of those were strictly special teams.
He's my choice of winning the position battle. I don't care about the ONE YEAR advantage of experience that Reynolds has over him...now if Powell cannot transition into the new D that is a different story. But I'm trying to get our 11 best football players out there. As for OH...that has nothing to do with me. That has to do with you I guess as you bring it up. I'm not from OH I have no allegience to OSU, Indians or anything other than the Browns. I like OSU to win only cause many here love them so for their sake I like them to well.
Powell to me has little to do with his college and more to do with him coming from the team I THINK has the best safeties in the NFL. They got Devin Hester and had to make room...Our Gain
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LB signings prove Browns embrace nickel package as base defense By: Jeff Risdon | 15 hours ago Most football fans are accustomed to seeing three, or perhaps even four, linebackers as the base defense. If those fans are expecting that look from the 2017 Cleveland Browns, they’re going to be either confused or disappointed. The Cleveland Browns have gone all-in on using The Browns have gone all-in on using two LBs as the base defense under new coordinator Gregg Williams. The lucrative contract extensions for those two primary LBs, Jamie Collins and Christian Kirksey, are a clear sign Cleveland will be in the nickel (4-2-5) formation the vast majority of the time. Browns sign Christian Kirksey to contract extension Take a look at how Williams used his linebackers with the Rams. Alec Ogletree and Mark Barron never left the field. In Ogletree’s case, that’s literally the truth; he was on the field for all 1090 defensive snaps in 2016. Barron played all but three in his first year as a full-time linebacker. The next LB on the Rams’ snap count list in 2016 was Cory Littleton, who was in on 122 snaps. Josh Forrest played 90 as the two essentially split the third LB role. In just two games did either play more than 36 percent of the defensive snaps, and those were against offenses that use two tight ends a lot. That was no fluke. Williams has fully embraced playing just two LBs as his base defense. In 2015 it was James Laurinaitis, a natural middle LB, who logged all but two of the Rams’ defensive snaps. Ogletree played over 96 percent of the available snaps in the first four games before getting hurt. Once he was gone, the combination of Akeem Ayers and Barron split the second LB reps. Collins and Kirksey are perfect fits for how Williams deploys his two LB set. Collins is physical and can rush the passer. Kirksey is supremely quick to react and smart. Both are outstanding athletes. Demario Davis will be the third LB. Expect him to play on about 25 percent of the snaps, mostly against teams who use two TEs or a fullback in the base offense. No other LB will see the field for more than a handful of defensive snaps, barring injury. That’s the Gregg Williams way. It might take some time for fans, and more traditional media members, to adjust. That’s understandable. Just know that the new Browns defense is a base 4-2, not a 4-3. http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/3...s-base-defense/
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Who is the author? Why would it take some time to adjust. We have seen this trend has been here for years
And how is giving Kirksey and Collins lucrative contracts a "clear sign" that we will only be using two LBers? LOL
I agree that we will only have 2 LBers on the field a high percentage of the time, but the contract thing doesn't make sense.
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I agree that we will only have 2 LBers on the field a high percentage of the time, but the contract thing doesn't make sense. Maybe we know we will be playing two linebackers instead of only one? I don't know. The whole article was a poo show.
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New thoughts....
Base Nickel:
DL:Ogbah-Shelton-Brantley/Cooper-Garrett
LB:Kirko-Collins
DB:(FS)Reynolds-(SS)Pryor-(NB)Peppers-(CB)Taylor (CB)McCourty/(Haden)
Nickel:
DL:Ogbah-Ogun-Brantley/Cooper-Garrett
LB:Kirko-Collins
DB:(FS)Reynolds-(SS)Peppers-(NB)Boddy-(CB)Taylor (CB)McCourty/(Haden)
'Speed' Nickel:
DL:Collins-Ogbah-Brantley-Garrett
LB:Kirko-PRYOR
DB:(FS)Reynolds,(SS)Peppers-(NB)Boddy-(CB)Taylor (CB)McCourty/(Haden)
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My 2 cents;
43:
DL:Ogbah-Shelton-Bryant-Garrett
LB:Kirko-Collins-Alexander
DB:(FS)-?-(SS)Peppers-(CB)Taylor-(CB)Haden
Big Nickel: 42.5
DL:Ogbah-Shelton-Bryant-Garrett
LB:Kirko-Collins-(NLB)Peppers
DB:(FS)-?-(SS)Pryor-(CB)Taylor-(CB)Haden
Nickel: 42
DL:Ogbah-Brantley-Bryant-Garrett
LB:Kirko-Collins
DB:(FS)-?-(SS)Peppers-(NB)Boddy-(CB)Taylor-(CB)Haden
Dime: 32
DL:Ogbah-Bryant-Garrett
LB:Kirko-Collins
DB:(FS)-?-(SS)Peppers-(CB)Boddy-(CB)Taylor-(CB)Haden-(CB)McCourty
With Ogunjobi and Nassib rotated in at DT and DE respectively.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 06/01/17 10:23 PM.
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would it be too much to hope for? that Peppers will be used like a troy polamalu type of guy. we can line up in all kinds of places and and turn him loose?...crossed my mind and made me smile...just curious.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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j/c
It seems to me that most opinions I have read have Kirksey at the WILL and Collins at the SAM in a 4-2 nickel...then I mostly read Collins moves to MIKE in the 4-3.
Anyone willing to breakdown each guy and why said guy is 'slotted' as I'm reading? Too deep for me.
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I know that Davis was playing the MIKE.
Haven't heard or read anything about Collins moving their, but he is certainly capable.
I look for Alexander to step into that role with Davis gone.
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I know that Davis was playing the MIKE.
Haven't heard or read anything about Collins moving their, but he is certainly capable.
I look for Alexander to step into that role with Davis gone.
Are you thinking Alexander to MIKE (4-3) with Collins & Kirksey...or...Alexander to SAM (4-3) with Collins to MIKE (4-3)?
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I like Alexander, but I don't see him as a Mike. He's not quite physical enough to play inside.
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j/c I have enough trouble keeping the WILL/MIKE/SAM differences in a 4-3 straight in my head...then we still say WILL & SAM in a 4-2.  The only one I can keep somewhat straight is the MIKE and the need for that MIKE to be a little more physical. But what happens to that physical need in a 4-2? If the WILL is more a coverage guy and the MIKE more of a thumper...what is the mantra of the SAM?
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I don't know that he has ever played anything but ILB or MIKE.
LBers are not what they used to be as far as size goes and taking on and shedding OL.
Speed is the first attribute that teams look for now.
Davis is more of the old school LB.
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j/c I have enough trouble keeping the WILL/MIKE/SAM differences in a 4-3 straight in my head...then we still say WILL & SAM in a 4-2. The only one I can keep somewhat straight is the MIKE and the need for that MIKE to be a little more physical. But what happens to that physical need in a 4-2? If the WILL is more a coverage guy and the MIKE more of a thumper...what is the mantra of the SAM? The SAM has coverage responsibilities with the TE, both will be used heavily in coverage and either can be used to blitz. I preferred Kirko to cover TE's, but they have him at WILL for now.
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j/c...
Don't count out Schobert from winning the little used Mike LB.
I know he's been outside in his career but I think he could make the transition...kid works hard and has an excellent motor.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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j/c I have enough trouble keeping the WILL/MIKE/SAM differences in a 4-3 straight in my head...then we still say WILL & SAM in a 4-2. The only one I can keep somewhat straight is the MIKE and the need for that MIKE to be a little more physical. But what happens to that physical need in a 4-2? If the WILL is more a coverage guy and the MIKE more of a thumper...what is the mantra of the SAM? The SAM has coverage responsibilities with the TE, both will be used heavily in coverage and either can be used to blitz. I preferred Kirko to cover TE's, but they have him at WILL for now. I see that too...just with more hesitation as I'm trying to really understand the differences in this regard. I think Kirksey is a better coverage guy than is Collins (although Collins is supposed to be good there too)...then I see Kirksey as the WILL and Collins as the SAM.
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j/c...
Don't count out Schobert from winning the little used Mike LB.
I know he's been outside in his career but I think he could make the transition...kid works hard and has an excellent motor.
jmho I'm with you there...that...plus he can play STs.
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I know everyone is feeling encouraged with Greg Williams. Heck how can blame anyone with Ray Horton was trying to scheme
last year
But in 2016 Williams 4-2-5 defense
Allowed these points
44 Cards
42 Falcons
26 Pats
49 Saints
28 49ers
32 Bucs
He alot of work to do in Cleveland
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He alot of work to do in Cleveland Just keeping it real, but everyone has a lot of work to do in Cleveland. Staff, players... everyone.
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j/c I have enough trouble keeping the WILL/MIKE/SAM differences in a 4-3 straight in my head...then we still say WILL & SAM in a 4-2. The only one I can keep somewhat straight is the MIKE and the need for that MIKE to be a little more physical. But what happens to that physical need in a 4-2? If the WILL is more a coverage guy and the MIKE more of a thumper...what is the mantra of the SAM? The SAM has coverage responsibilities with the TE, both will be used heavily in coverage and either can be used to blitz. I preferred Kirko to cover TE's, but they have him at WILL for now. I see that too...just with more hesitation as I'm trying to really understand the differences in this regard. I think Kirksey is a better coverage guy than is Collins (although Collins is supposed to be good there too)...then I see Kirksey as the WILL and Collins as the SAM. The SAM also has the TE trying to block him vs the run and Collins is a bigger guy, so that could be why they have him there.
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From previous LB/defense discussion:
My thoughts for base would be: SAM-Collins MIKE-Davis WILL-Kirko
IF Davis is gone then you could shuffled the deck of LBs with Schobert or Alexander added in. Schobert could probably play any of the LBs spots and Alexander could play the WILL:
SAM-Schobert MIKE-Collins WILL-Kirko
SAM-Collins MIKE-Kirko WILL-Alexander
SAM-Collins MIKE-Schobert WILL-Kirko
Last edited by edromeo; 06/02/17 07:24 PM.
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Thanks for the links.
I tend to agree with the Bronco's scouting report. That and the fact that we already have a WILL I would put my next best LB on my roster on the field and imo that guy is Alexander.
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Thanks Versatile,
I enjoyed the links because I think Alexander fits niceley in the scheme.
Of course all needs to be played out but the potential is there.
If I only knew then what I know today...
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I remember Alexander being considered a day 2 pick early in the scouting process so I'm pulling for him. Will is def his ideal spot
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I haven't seen many people talking about the possibility of a 5-2 set. With DL being much deeper than the other units I think this may be a possibility. Especially with the switch from 34 some of these front 5 would be familiar with dropping back. It would make for interesting disguises for blitzes. Not saying it would be a base set just another weapon.
FS
Peppers
Kirksey, collins
Garrett, Bryant, Danny, 3T(or nassib/ogbah), nassib/ogbah/edge
With peppers and collins able to cheat up and hide or fake blitzes and 2 or 3 DL woth experience in small zones I think we could create some fast sacks out of this. Albeit risky it is Williams style
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