DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Here's the tax scandal every American should be outraged over...

Here's the tax scandal every American should be outraged over

Americans are now paying more than twice the amount of federal taxes than we were in 1961.
And yet, the debt is at $20 trillion and growing because spending is out of control.
This should end the debate over whether JFK would favor tax cuts now.

There's a massive multi-trillion dollar scandal going on nationwide that would make even Bernie Madoff blush. It's a conspiracy that involves government bureaucrats, politicians from both parties, and a big chunk of the public being left in the dark. It shatters a key liberal belief and a separate example of conservative dogma.

The scandal first was uncovered earlier this week by Terry Jeffrey at CNS News when he looked at federal revenue numbers and noted that Americans are paying more than twice the amount of federal taxes they were when President John F. Kennedy first took office in 1961. Yes, that's adjusted for inflation with a jump from $4,121 per person in current dollars 46 years ago to $10,114 in 2016.

And yes, that's per person, not per taxpaying person. We're talking more than ten grand for every one of the 323 million-plus people in the U.S.

That got me thinking about a lot of other questions, starting with: What does this mean for the tax burden for every American who actually pays federal taxes?

That's where it gets worse. In 1961 about 49 million Americans paid federal taxes. In current inflation-adjusted dollars, they paid $15,477 per taxpayer in federal taxes.

Ninety-three million Americans paid federal taxes in 2016, broadening that tax base by almost 100 percent since JFK. But the federal tax burden per taxpayer jumped to $35,053.

And now it's time to look at the political bigger picture.

There are many reasons why this is a scandal, starting with the fact that despite this tax burden reality politicians often boast about how tax rates are much lower than they were in 1961. And the next part of the scandal is the federal debt is still growing at $20 trillion and counting.

"The reason why I and some other conservatives are focusing on comparisons to Kennedy's years in office is because he was the most important Democrat to ever push for and explain the need for tax cuts."
But the biggest reason this is a scandal is that all the new taxes that are responsible for this massive jump in our costs are hidden in the fine print. We may have lower top line income tax rates than we did in 1961, but we have so many new taxes going to the federal government that it's hard to keep track.

Granted, some of those new taxes are for generally popular programs like Medicare and Medicaid which did not exist in 1961. And Social Security, also very popular with the voters, has imposed higher tax rates over the years.

But the ugly truth is that the trust funds where those new tax revenues were supposed to be placed aren't really trust funds. Money is siphoned from them every year to pay for other government spending. The federal government just grabs a lot of that supposedly protected cash and replaces it with IOU's.

That's a big reason why both Medicare and Social Security are in fiscal danger despite those higher tax revenues. In Washington that's okay. In the real world, we call that "bait and switch."

We can also call it a "cover up" because this robbing Peter to pay Paul practice masks the reality of our real federal debt. When the unfunded liabilities like Social Security and Medicare are factored in for real, our debt is calculated by some experts to total more like $200 trillion.

But like all scandals, at least this news provides some clarity. The reason why I and some other conservatives are focusing on comparisons to Kennedy's years in office is because he was the most important Democrat to ever push for and explain the need for tax cuts. And because he was a Democrat, there's been a very long-running political debate in America about the Kennedy tax cuts and their enduring lessons for us today. When Kennedy was president, he made a strong case for cutting taxes to boost the economy. And it worked.

When President Reagan proposed cutting taxes in 1981, he insisted on using JFK's arguments in the effort. Then-presidential staffers like Larry Kudlow and Art Laffer took the lead in promoting that view. Yet liberals argued that tax rates were so high during President Kennedy's day that his call to cut them was only relative, and the Democratic icon would never advocate tax cuts in 1981 or today.

That argument should end right here now that we know Americans are effectively being taxed a twice the rate they were even in JFK's time. If President Kennedy thought that citizens and the economy were struggling under too heavy a tax burden then, it's silly to think he wouldn't think the same today when the burden has now more than doubled.

This also sadly should end the long-held conservative argument that the best thing for the taxpayer is to broaden the base and get more people to share the load. Well the total number of federal taxpayers is almost twice what it was 46 years ago but those taxpayers are paying twice as much! So much for thinning out the pain.

All of this provides more clarity that the real culprit here is government spending. We're being taxed more, period. And the reason is because the government can't stop spending our money. It's spending so much, that it plays games and deceptive tricks with popular programs like Medicare and Social Security to hide and prop up that spending. And yet, our debt keeps growing.

You don't have to be a "greedy" millionaire or billionaire to be angry about that kind of taxation. The numbers don't lie, we're all being soaked for more than twice the cash our parents had to pay. And for our trouble, we're told we have a lighter tax burden than the past.

This is why we not only need tax reform, but spending reform. Any president or Congress that doesn't get to providing both is utterly worthless.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/02/a-tax-scandal-every-american-should-be-outraged-over-commentary.html

It's all a mess.

Well now that it is out in the open maybe something can be done.

So i'm going to give a detailed response when i get back from hitting this bong, but i found some numbers for people to have fun with.

average income in 1961: 5,700 a year (rounded)
average income in 2016: 56,500 a year (rounded)

top tax rate 1961: 91%
top tax rate 2016: 39.6%

In 1961 about 49 million Americans paid federal taxes. In current inflation-adjusted dollars, they paid $15,477 per taxpayer in federal taxes.

Ninety-three million Americans paid federal taxes in 2016, broadening that tax base by almost 100 percent since JFK. But the federal tax burden per taxpayer jumped to $35,053.

What is the scandal here? Our government can't keep spending money? Social Security has been raided? I'm trying to see if there's anything here we can specifically talk about. I get that our government spends way too much money, but without telling us where the money is going, this seems rather vague.

That argument should end right here now that we know Americans are effectively being taxed a twice the rate they were even in JFK's time. If President Kennedy thought that citizens and the economy were struggling under too heavy a tax burden then, it's silly to think he wouldn't think the same today when the burden has now more than doubled.

You know the government doesn't have the same responsibilities as they did during segregation, right? If you really want to be shocked, see how many people were paying taxes in George Washington's time compared to now. It'll blow your mind.

Yet i get suspended for calling u a stoner after u blatantly lie about me for months ...

*LOL* ... makes a lot of sense in bizzaro world ..

stop whining. honestly, you're one of the oldest dudes on here, yet one of the biggest freaking babies.

do you have anything to add to the actual thread?

maybe i'm reading this wrong, but somebody help me out that way i'm not confusing the numbers.

in the first line, it's saying adjusted for inflation, tax payers paid 15k in 1961.

but now in 2016, it jumped to 35k? is that the average? how is 35k the average if the average income in 2016 is only 55-56k?

and the language is confusing. does he mean tax burden, as in the average federal debt per person? cause that's waaaayyy different than what the average person is paying in taxes per year.

i just want to clear this up before i continue. cause the verbiage isn't consistent with what the message is, IMO.

1- Americans are paying more than twice the amount of federal taxes they were when President John F. Kennedy first took office in 1961.

2- Yes, that's adjusted for inflation with a jump from $4,121 per person in current dollars 46 years ago to $10,114 in 2016.

3- And yes, that's per person, not per taxpaying person.

We're talking more than ten grand for every one of the 323 million-plus people in the U.S.

4- What does this mean for the tax burden for every American who actually pays federal taxes?

In 1961 about 49 million Americans paid federal taxes. In current inflation-adjusted dollars, they paid $15,477 per taxpayer in federal taxes.

5- Ninety-three million Americans paid federal taxes in 2016,

6- The federal tax burden per taxpayer jumped to $35,053.

7- $35,053 includes ALL TAX PAYERS, filthy rich like me down to the rest of you.

Remember, this is not income tax alone, it is ALL FEDERAL TAXES WE PAY.

wouldn't taxes naturally rise as wages increase?

1961 the average income was 5700k
2016 it's now 55-56k

also, the tax rates are lower.

so i haven't even got to the meat of the issue yet, but just talking about taxpayers paying taxes, i really don't see the problem.

if you just want to use raw numbers then TECHNICALLY sure we pay a lot more.

but when taking things into context, of course we pay more; we MAKE more. also, rich people actually pay LESS on their taxes now as a whole than they did in 1961. because the rate in 1961 was 91% for the top. now it's only 39.6%, and that's not taking into account that barely anybody - if any - pays those rates in the first place.

in the famous words of Arch: Do we have a tax problem, or a spending problem?

and that's the huge disconnect. if we want to discuss how the government waste our money, there's not a person on this board who doesn't agree that spending is out of control, the differences we have is WHERE the spending needs to be cut.

but we can't even get to that part of the discussion, because we have quite a few of you who think we pay too much in taxes, when clearly based on the 1961 numbers, we do not.

You should have skipped that bong you were talking about, $5700 in 1961 is $46,179.95 today, adjusted for inflation.

are you a parrot?

A. we still make more.
B. we still haven't talked about the cost of living, as well as other things that have got more expensive.
C. Rich people still pay less on their taxes today than they did in 1961.

sorry, but what we pay in taxes isn't the problem. if anything, there's too many loopholes and deductions.

government spending is the problem.

this article is half right, half wrong. what we pay in taxes is not the problem. it's how it's being spent.

Government spending IS the problem, they tax us twice as much as they did in 1961 and we still are $20 Trillion in debt.

Rates have nothing to do with it!

I gotta get ready to go fishing in the morn, hope you figure out what the article is telling you by the time I return in two weeks!

rates ties into a lot of it, especially since people cry about rates all the time in society.

have fun, hopefully your game steps up when you come back.

LOOK AT THE PRETTY COLORS SWISH!

it's annoying

In 1961 bread was 21 cents a loaf, hamburger 40 cents a pound, and gas 27 cents a gallon! The average income was $5,315 a year and minimum wage was $1.15... Adjusted for inflation it's about the same except income and minimum wages are lower comparatively; something the GOP is vehemently opposed to increasing. More selective fact use from the alternative fact reality.

Source for Numbers:

http://sycamore1961.org/1961%20Economy%20-%20Prices.htm

Welcome to my side.

As the communist on this board, I think I can speak for all of us. We all know that gov spending is the problem. But exactly on what? Funny how the people who know don't share that knowledge.

well, as the globalist on the board, I can tell you right now that defense spending is completely out of control.

We could cut defense by 50% and still be spending too much. There must be a heck of a lot of black book stuff in defense. They don't even know where all that money is going and it's sure not just $600 ashtrays.

You see how much money we spent on the F35 program?

We could've paid for everybody to go to school with that money.

Defense spending, SS, Medicare, ACA and debt service and other safety net programs eat all of the revenue from taxes. All other spending is a credit card. What you wanna cut?

The next hidden tax scandal?? Inflation. It happens despite the games they have played changing the definition every six months. Couple that with wage stagnation during the Obama years and you gotta ask "what recovery".

Ahhhh....the Patrick Ewing response.

??

You might be too young....

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/news/top-15-dumbest-athlete-quotes/

uh...ok?

Yes we make more, but with inflation, the spending power of what we make is less than what it was.

If the minimum wage had increased proportionately to inflation it would be over $20 an hour.

In 1961 you didn't have as many freeloaders, eating government cheese.

yea, but that's not really the fault of the tax rates.

Yeah those damn freeloading kids