DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The 4-3 defense and our current roster.

I don't see us adding another linemen very often. I see us adding a DB...Peppers is the key, he can float from DB to backer role....teams won't really know how we plan to attack the play.

I'm just saying that it plays to our strength to play more DL until next year. Like I said don't think it'll happen often but it could be our strongest setup

Exactly...who's the MIKE?

Went by the way of Omaha I guess? LOL

with the talent we have... there is no reason to run a 4-3.

we should be playing a 5-2. or 4 2 1(Running free Peppers) 4

I think both Peppers and Pryor defend their half of the field.

Peppers can play the rover roll in college and play the field. In the pros, I think that is a mighty task.

The key falls squarely on the front four containment and pressure. They must allow those back four to roam and apply pressure reducing play execution time. They also must prevent any running play between tackles.

This should be a fun defense to watch. If these guys live up to their potential, this will be difficult group to play against. Pressure is coming but from where!

One concern is that Peppers will be the tell... what to know where the pressure is coming form follow him, he will be used as the line of defense to fil those vacated areas.

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/21/breaking-down-gregg-williams-coverage-schemes/

Not sure if the article above was already posted and discussed.

But if gives a picture into how/what coverages Gregg used last year which sheds some insight for expectations and roles for this defense/secondary....if it hasn't been posted maybe it deserves its own thread?

Ok...so is the article implying that we will primarily run a Cover 2?

I just looked at the draft profiles for every LB on our roster - except for Fleming because I couldn't find one, Orchard, Cam Johnson, Kirksey & Collins. The profile for NONE of those guys reads (even remotely) like the MIKE description as I read/see it. Lots of WILL/SAM type LB prospects...but none with any apparent MIKE potential. The profile for Alexander says nothing interesting about him playing inside (4-3) other than that he lacks strength and instincts to play there...maybe he's gotten stronger.

That leads me to believe that Collins will play the MIKE when we need one (due to his size) and Kirksey will be his backup there (he recently "moved" outside). (Which seems odd on the surface.)

It literally reads as if none of those other guys are candidates for the MIKE. (Note: I'm not saying Kirksey/Collins can or will play the MIKE...I just didn't bother reading their draft profiles because we already know them.)

I'll just say I think this team has the bodies to play a 2-5 defense. Saw it in a playoff game by the Pats, vs the Colts, sometime when either Bruschi, or McGinnest was in his last year on the pats.
Peyton Manning's, then high powered offense was about shut down for 2 and a half quarters with nary a 1st down in the middle of the game.
With almost not a one Dlineman on the field a bunch of big linebackers and extra safeties went 7 across mostly standing before the snap, 2 would end up rushing, but it varied... the 5 would cover the short pass and stopped the run, and the 4 over the top shut down deep passes.
The thing is, they couldn't even run against it, I kept thinking, they've got to make em pay with the run, but they couldn't even run against it.

I just said that in the DL thread. Everything I have read is Williams doesn't use a traditional Mike very often.

Yeah...it seems as if he is predisposed to not having the traditional MIKE plus the league overall is in the nickle a high % of the time. It's difficult to justify a roster spot for that traditional MIKE if he's limited to that role ala D Davis.

That's not what I got from it.....The chart and articles covers a lot of ground but in broad stokes....


The 3 main coverages were:

Cover 3 - 29.37%

Cover 1 - 25.20%

Cover 2 - 24.24%

^^What this tells me is that Gregg used middle of the field deep safety* Cover 3 and Cover 1 over 50% of the time.

This reinforces the need to have a better play from that spot.

The other coverages were just sprinkled in all 5% or less of the time.

I think some of the numbers in the article were off though e.g....I'm not sure how they came up with Cover 2 and Cover 3 representing 76% of the defensive plays when Cover 2 was used 24.24% and Cover 3 was used 29.37% of the time *shrugs* or maybe I'm missing something?


* it usually isn't called 'middle of the field deep safety' I just wanted describe the exact position I was talking about without getting mixed up in titles that spot is usually referred to as: single high, center field, middle of field, single post

In regards to the bold above, I too got confused about the chart versus the article. The article includes this:

When the opposing team has two tight ends, or a running back and fullback in the backfield, Cover 3 will be the primary call. Against three or more wideouts, expect Cover 2.

Odd.

So the nickle looks will deploy mostly Cover 2?

I am having a hard time reading that chart. Too small.

I watched the Rams this year and I thought I saw them in Cover 2 quite a bit.

Yep, it is odd. I think the author is speculating when it comes to his comment to ~'expect Cover 2 against 3 or more wideouts'.

The reason why I think he's speculating is because the stats from the chart don't tell you about frequency based on nickel or any other parameter. The charts just tells raw % of use.

The only way to really tell what Coverage they use based on situation is to watch film.

Still a really informative chart tho.

I agree that Orchard and Cam Johnson don't profile anywhere close to ILB much less MLB. Those guys are edge rushers.

I think Alexander might eventually handle MLB duties with experience/confidence and improvement in stacking and shedding blockers.

You didn't mention Schobert, what did you think of his profile?

FWIW-Heard on CBD that Tank Carder was at MLB during the OTAs. Completely forgot about him when projecting the replacements for DD.









btw-good article on coverages:
http://smartfootball.com/passing/attacking-coverages-in-the-passing-game#sthash.7L6JGW7C.dpbs

Based on the article you can expect us to play:

Man coverage 30% of the time
Zone coverage 70% of the time

When playing man coverage we will play:
cover 1 85% of the time
cover 2 and/or 3 15% of the time

When playing Zone coverage we will play:
cover 2 approx. 50% of the time
cover 3 approx. 50% of the time

Shobert's profile appeared similar to the rest...nothing to indicate a MIKE skill set. However, I remember during the draft last year seeing highlights of him playing inside at Wisconsin and blitzing from the inside.

I even looked at Carder's draft profile. It's the least flattering of them all...also with no apparent MIKE talent.

Interesting article you posted. It'll take me awhile to digest that.

I'm with you on Carder and I like Shobert. Do you think Orchard can hold up in coverage?

Not speaking on behalf of Tab as I know the question was directed towards him, but no, definitely not.

Cleveland Browns

Safety Jabrill Peppers

Things are falling into place for safety Jabrill Peppers in Cleveland.

Or should I say linebacker Jabrill Peppers?

After trading back into the first round of the 2017 draft to select the Michigan star, the Browns traded middle linebacker Demario Davis to the New York Jets for 2014 first-round pick Calvin Pryor. It’s a move that bolsters Cleveland’s depth on the back end, but weak-side linebacker is suddenly a hole.

Or is it?

The Browns reportedly may leave Chris Kirksey at WILL and insert youngster Tank Carder at MIKE. But new Cleveland defensive coordinator Gregg Williams enjoyed considerable success moving Mark Barron from safety to WILL linebacker with the Rams. Deone Bucannon of the Cardinals and Telvin Smith of the Jaguars have thrived as linebackers in the NFL despite a perceived lack of size.

There’s a difference between Barron and Peppers, though.

Peppers already has considerable experience playing the position from his time in Ann Arbor.

This isn't to say Peppers will be playing linebacker for the Browns in 2017.

But it's more than likely, at least part-time.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2713722-every-nfl-teams-2017-breakout-player-candidate

Tank is 28 and Kirksey is 24 yet Tank is the youngster? Anyways, never really been impressed with Tank outside ST.

Youngster? He was on the team like 6 or 7 years ago when we went to training camp. Is he finally going to graduate from special teams?

Another quality article. We did not trade back into the first round for Peppers. It was the tight end. We moved down for Peppers, from the first round to another point in the first round.

Fake news. Alternate facts. Kathy Griffin is still not funny.

I agree. I wouldn't read too much into the OTAs. Tank is a veteran LB and Hue is showing respect, but Tanks role (ST) probably wont be different from the past.

Not getting on you pound. You simply posted an article you read. It's cool.

However, how could an article be more off base and speculative than that one?

lol Vers boredom is your answer here. it's simply and article someone wrote about who they think might have a break out year for every team.

so naturally I scrolled down to our team.

Something that might perhaps spark a convo.

I thought I said I didn't blame you for posting it???????

No problem there. I just thought it was a poor article. Has nothing to do w/you.

lol you did. and was just explaining why I threw it out there. that's all.

Maybe the writer meant Joe Schobert.

Haven't heard anything about him so far in OTA's, but I think he could be good if given the opportunity.

Once MG starts to hunt, a few guys on our d will look better.

With Orchard at SAM, wouldn't the opposing O figure that he's going to blitz every time...assuming he's had no successful history of dropping into coverage? Do you envision him dropping down outside the DE or blitzing from the back of the box?

I'm just asking to figure out what to envision here.

I like the makeup of this defense just by getting Bryant back and adding Garrett. I am one of the few Nate Orchard fans but man, we have the makeup of a hell of a rotation up front. Competition eliminates entitlement and breeds hunger. They aren't gonna be battling the enemy each week, they are fighting each other for bragging rights and playing time.

Both inside and outside, we are gonna have guys fighting for time.

I absolutely love Kindred and pryor and watching more on Peppers, I have started to appreciate his athleticism. Corners we will see but I think this D could really be something special.

It's BleacherReport, lol .... there was a reason that we used to not allow places like them as a news source

I think there is a fair chance Orchard gets cut.

I don't like Kindred that much. He's a straight line S who can't cover his shadow.

I think our secondary is a huge, huge concern.

I agree Vers that our secondary is a concern. Our FO realizes it too because they just picked up 2 guys that should help. We may be able to get more help after TC cuts. It may not be such a concern by our 1st game.