DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 2017 Browns win / loss record predictions...

Of course Vers, but going into the season with a doom and gloom thought process is no fun.


I don't think I'll be calling for Hue's head if/when we don't achieve what I'd like us to achieve.

But i'm still hoping for a somewhere between 5 and 7 wins.

On paper it looks like we should be improved. And going into the season expecting less than that is depressing.

I did want Pettine gone, but most of that was because he stuck with O'Neil. I saw that and said, "You're on your own on this one buddy." He clearly lost the team too.

True.
But we've bolstered the O-line, have young players who HOPEFULLY will improve from their rookie years. QB is obviously a question mark - to me, CK won't be good enough - but Kiizer or BO might make a big difference eventually. I'm not saying we'll win 10 games, but I think we will show significant improvement. I like our DC.

We will know lot more by October, if not sooner. I'm an impatient person by nature, but unless Hue starts making truly stupid decisions, I'm good to go with him in 2018, no matter what our record is in '17.

Pet never lost the team. That's completely untrue!

I get that "fans" want to be positive, but that has no bearing on reality. I really do not get how we are so improved.

We are worse at WR and TE.

We supposedly upgraded the OL, but Greco was probably our second best offensive lineman and the dude from GB can't stay healthy. We lost our RT and wanna believe two suck-asses can man that position.

We should be better defensively, but we don't have a true cover corner and we don't a S who can cover.

It's going to be another long year.

And, you know what? I'm okay w/that now. We tore it down. I didn't agree w/that move, but since it's over and done with.......I have to accept it. But to expect a team that completely blew things up to improve by 6 games or so in a single freaking year is delusional.

And when people start thinking delusional thoughts.........they end up getting angry and calling for the firing of coaches. Kinda like last year w/Horton.

In fairness, it is also possible that one of the guys you deride in rather rude terms ..... might just have the lights come on this year.

I look forward to seeing what our DBS look like when the opposing QB can't read War and Peace in the pocket. (well, the Cliff Notes, anyway)

I look forward to seeing some guys going back to the DL, and out of the LB corps.


I do agree with you that fans often become fanatical when their expectations aren't met. Right now, without seeing camp, or any preseason play, I am guardedly optimistic ...... with maybe a 4-5 win plateau. If we have a revelation at QB, then maybe another win or 2. That's a big maybe for me though. We will, again, be an extraordinarily young team, and we need to get our youngsters experience.

j/c

What scares me is automatically assuming that Garrett will make our pass rush that much better. He's still a rookie (and who knows how he'll transition to the NFL immediately, or at all). On paper, yes, he should improve us quite a bit (I mean, he WAS the top pick) ... but we've been disappointed before

Rude terms?

LOL.........we have a poster calling Crow a lazy, underachieving bum and you don't say a word about that point out that I am using rude terms.

If it were just Garrett I would agree ...

- Williams is very very aggressive, way more so than Horton ...

- Collins and Kirksey are both good pass rushers that will benifit from a more aggressive game plan ...

- Peppers has a GREAT physical skill set and instincts to rush the passer ...

- the fact that we have Garrett on the opposite side of Ogbah shoud help Ogbah see less double teams ...

- Williams can scheme many different blitz packages with all those guys ... it will be a guessing game for the OL whose coming and from where ..

If our pass rush is not much improved something is way wrong ..

Its not just Garrett, if that were the case I wouldn't be so interested in seeing what we have with our front 7 and Peppers ...

Y-town used a GREAT PHASE ... gaurded optimism .... I think that is a great way to describe our pass rush and how i feel about it .. and when i let my gaurd down in a moment of weakness, i get down right giddy ... *L* ...

U ain't sucking me in ... but i won't let u BLATANTLY LIE about me ....

I have said on more than one occasion and i believe i even said it earlier in this thread that there is no way i think Hue and the FO should be fired after this year ... NO WAY ...

I won'y get sucked in but i will not let u BLATANTLY LIE about me ... carry on with your STALKING ..

We will see who is "lying" as the season plays out.

I've been saying right along 3-5 wins this year. We have too many ? marks on O and in the secondary, although I feel the secondary will be a little better than most think. You have to also remember that this team has to LEARN to win which will be difficult with all the losing we have done. Let's hope for the best.

Well, according to Whitner and Dansby he did.

I have a lot of respect for Dansby. He's a guy I never wanted to see go. I remember once, some guy had to go out to the field for some coin toss or god knows what, well Dansby showed him where to go and told him what to do.

Just the way he did it, it really made me like him.

Many people could have said nothing and done nothing, and no one would have said any differently. It was right before kickoff after-all. But nope, Dansby talked to a random fan on the field and gave him some direction.

Made me say, "Man, I really like this guy". Just the little things you see of people when the camera isn't on them, and they aren't being interviewed, and so on.




Anyway, off Dansby, but yeah, to my point. I'm just saying what I saw. Toward the end of that season it felt like a total mess out there, and I just didn't see the effort. That's what I call losing the team.

Pettine stuck by his guy, Jim O'Neil. That was his fault. Farmer probably had to go either way, but in my book, sticking by Jim O'Neil was a big big mistake. IMO he's probably the worst defensive coordinator that I can think of here. Worse than Grantham, Jauron, Horton, Ryan, Campo, can't really think of anyone else right now. But the worst

I too always liked Dansby even if he was a bit older but, he replaced D'Quell who was older too. Never quite sure about the cutting of Ward and signing an older Whitner. We definitely lost on that one.

Dansby came out after the firing of Pettine AND before his release saying it was a "suffocating" atmosphere and environment and Pettine/Farmer/O'Neil's firing needed to happen. So, I DO think Pett lost the team.

I disagree, again.

Fair enough. But, just curious if there is evidence that Pett didn't lose the team compared to a handful of players that have come out saying it was "toxic" and "suffocating"?

I think he HAD the team in 2014 and then when nose dived and the wheels came off and bled into 2015 I think he lost it. The horrific defense, Manziel, Gilbert off field problems and various FO issues (Farmer's text gate, Haslam's legal issues and meddling into the running of the team etc.) all led to the team imploding and turning on itself, or against some/all of the coaches and GM.

What joy are you getting out of trashing the guy? Why not let it drop? Now, you are stating it's up to a "handful of players."

I watched the games. The team played hard all the way through the season. Joe Thomas, Gary Barnidge, and even Johnny Manziel spoke about how they should bring Pet back.

How about we just disagree and let it go? This year's team will not be better because some of you wanna trash a guy who is no longer here.

Oh, and before a couple of posters accuse me of being a liar again, let me post this excerpt from a larger article:

You should remember that I liked Crow from the time he was signed. He was my UDFA pick to make my team. I hoped he would find some maturity, because he had a ton of talent. I also like the explosiveness he showed last year.

I have said that I like Crow, and think that he can be a top level RB, if we commit to the run. He did screw up, but he apologized, and even went to a funeral for a police officer. That spoke volumes for me.

As far as posts on the board .... I can dislike the way one person speaks about players on the team, without having to call out every other poster for things I may have already responded to. Some other times, I know that it is useless to beat my head against the wall with some other posters, so I don't continue to debate and to with them.

YTown, I wasn't trying to imply you didn't like Crow.

It's cool.

I've called U a LIAR twice when you BLATANTLY LIED about me ... never called u a LIAR about anything else ... when i call u a liar, you will know. Its not my nature to "beat around the bush" as they say ...

I see your new ploy is to put words in my mouth and not adress me directly as i believe i am one of the posters your reffering to above ... if I'm not one of them let me know and i will take you at your word, admit im wrong and apologize to u ... if I'm right, good luck with that ...

U ain't sucking me in ... but i won't let u BLATANTLY LIE about me ....

I did not blatantly lie because it's impossible to tell a lie about something that has not even occurred yet, but again.....


U ain't sucking me in ...

It most certainly is not a new ploy.

I was looking through articles that saw much more of what I saw. A very highly paid defense that didn't play well at all. That defense underperformed big-time, and I place a lot of blame on Pettine.

Attached to this link there's a piece of what Crowell thought about Pettine's firing,

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns...rviews-1.652102


And here
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...-browns-in-2015



And here





Just to show, that there certainly were reports that Pettine kinda lost the team.

That defense was a mess. I put most of the blame on Jim O'Neil, but when Pettine decided to take on more of a role with the offense and give a longer leash to O'Neil, he put himself on the line big-time, and he was very wrong.

And I did like things about Pettine, but O'Neil was a mistake from the start.


EDIT: And I'm not calling you a liar or anything. Not calling anyone a liar, don't want to be involved in any spat.

But IMO this is some of the reason why Pettine got fired. And while I liked things about Pettine, and he seems like a swell guy. I think it was the right decision. Jim O'Neil sucked

C'mon Vers....I am not trashing the guy. How do you deduct that from my post. I simply commented on your post that it was "untrue Pettine lost the team". How do you know? I commented on an article/interview where Dansby said it was both "toxic" and "suffocating". He knows more than you or I so, that was/is my source.

Also, you often criticize the current FO on their decisions to not re-sign Schwartz/Gipson/Benji/Mack....if you can freely continue to "not let it go" and "trash" the FO for those past decisions then why can't I freely comment on a post where a fan states it is "untrue the ex-coach lost the team"?

Look Diam. You've been accepted at the Middle School Girl's lunch table.

How cute.

What? When was the last time I talked about those guys? But whatever, bash away!!!

I think Crow's comments are really only the negatives directed at Pet. It's already been established that Whit backed Pet.

And the other stuff sounds more like the rif between the FO and the coaches, as well as other players not being motivated.

I watched the games and I did not think that team quit. That is why I was fine w/bringing Pet back.

Oh, and maybe we can rename this thread Pet and What Went Wrong?

You are able to phrase it in any way that makes you feel warm inside. I think it's important to point out this must be at least the 100th time on here someone called you out for putting words in their mouths. I'm hoping one of these days it'll sink in and you'll actually stop doing it. Unfortunately, I don't think that day will ever come.

Middle school girls everywhere continue to weep and pray for the one day Vers changes his approach.

Sure.

Doesn't matter when the last time was...there are countless posts where you do bash them.

Anyway, I am not going to get into an argument with you when you are being hyper sensitive and on the defensive. Last thing I want is for this section of the board to become like the Political section. But, in some ways...it already is.

PDX.............I am not being "hyper sensitive." I just don't get why you can't let it go. You made your point. I disagreed. The guy is no longer here. What gratification will you get by trashing his name?

And I haven't got on the FO over the FA stuff for awhile. However, even if I did, it would be a helluva lot more relevant than discussing Pet, because he's gone and the FO is still here.

I know how much you love these and I feel kinda bad that I disappointed you w/the "Sure" comment, so here you go:



Is Diam the one in the middle?

I let it go the day Pettine was fired and if there was any question of 2nd guessing his dismissal that too was gone when we hired Hue. THEN when Dansby was interviewed it completely erased it. Until, I read on this board that you said that "Pet never lost the team". I simply commented on your post that according to somebody on the team with a lot more first hand knowledge actually made comment that people did quit.

Point made. I said nothing more, nor nothing less.

Actually, you are the one hammering it over and over so much so that here we are....still debating.

But hey, time to move on. You made your point, I made mine. Time to move on. Cool? Cool.

Cheerio!

*LOL* ... now thats funny ...

Thanks. I was hoping you'd like it.

j/c

I believe there are some things to keep in mind about the expectations for this year.

Do we have more talent? In my mind we do. And even more so on D. But what I feel we need to keep in mind is that a lot of our players are rookies and second year players. Now if this were the second year under a D system, those who were here last year could help the rookies along. However, we are in a brand new system on D. The second year players along with everyone else are learning this system together. Rather than the second year players stepping up this year, it's closer to their second rookie season.

On O we are so up in the air on who will be our staring QB and whether the second year players will step up, how can anyone actually feel comfortable in predicting our record?

I think it's going to take watching the pre season to even have a clue. And even at that, the pre season has often been deceiving.

I believe between the questions in the secondary and a new D system, we will see improvement as the season goes along. I'm just not so sure that's going to equal a lot of wins.

I agree w/what you've said Pit. It's going to be pretty difficult to not show improvement (youth gaining experience, same system on O, improved OL/DL, Collins, Williams, etc) ... I'm just not sure how many more wins that translates to.

Also, I don't know if a team in the NFL has a bigger question mark at QB .. we all hope that Cody improves and Kizer shows promise, but we're basically in the dark right now.

"Bigger question marks at QB" than the Browns.

Id put the Jets trio of McCown, Petty, and Hackenberg up there (down there?) as possibly/maybe worse.

The Rams traded up for a #1 overall pick that didn't look much better than our 3rd rounder.

The Broncos are staring at a 7th rounder and a 1st rounder going ¯\_( )_/¯ right about now..

And an honorable (2018) mention goes to Washington. For having a pretty good QB and basically telling him to screw off.

(Editors note: No this doesn't mean we don't suck. But talking about how much other people may suck more makes me feel a little better...)

I'd agree with that list ... in my mind, I thought "Jets, 49ers, Browns" as the worst ... I guess at least the Rams have a "plan," Washington has a guy this year, and Denver has enough stuff around their QB