DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Training Camp Stuff 2017

I agree. I think both Higgins and Louis will get a lot more PT.

From memory, it was a group effort, I recall the post that was made in what was then Tailgate. Seemed to be a few folk in the know, I think Michelle was active in the initial posting, maybe she even created the thread but I seem to recall both Pdawg and Kingo active in the sleuthing/bust but that's for them to confirm.

As others have said, a lot of things the dude said didn't pass the sniff test and I guess as the web got bigger, so did the holes and people started researching. It all came to a big dirty unraveling head with the story of his son who was some kinda 6"1 175lb star high school linebacker getting terminally ill. The whole thing was quite bizarre. I think I remember Eotab being genuinely concerned and posting support for "woody" I think it was and then the whole outhouse went up in flames.

It was a thing of beauty really.


(I'm sure I've made some misguided assumptions in this post and take my accuracy with a pinch of salt but it was along these kind of lines).

TL:DR - the bloke was a sad loser and got his just desserts.

Not sure of all the details either ... your post rang a bell about his kid ... he said he had cancer ...

Someone caught him through that lie and exposed him and he came on and admitted he was a fraud ... not sure if it was Michelle or not .. but someone sleuthed him ...

I think it was coach b who had cancer and his 'son', who'd posted a few times, came on one day and said pops passed away last night after a brave battle with cancer or something like that.

It was all so sad.

Pretty sure it was a hoax though.

Yes. It was.

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks like he'll definitely be ready to rock come camp.

God that guy looks like a physical freak.


I'm very excited to get him on the field. He's just what the doctor ordered

He's got so many plates on that leg press machine, and then the human on top - just insane. Truly insane. And he's supposed to be hurt a little? I would not want to get roundhouse kicked with that sort of power.

Can't see the video. Sounds like the foot must not be broken.

Yet if it were originally a problem of rolling the foot inside to out, or outside to in; or if it were a problem of establishing a diagonal plant foot, or diagonal base from which to contort his body around or between the O-line, ... because I don't know what a lateral foot sprain is.

But either way, if it prevents left to right, or if it prevents front to back partial bending or stress.

What I'm trying to say is! ON a leg press machine it would be easy to stabilize a straight on impact of the foot to the plate, (both feet to the plate) and then whatever weight he lifts is on his legs ability.

That a leg press would prove very little one way or the other, except that he can support weight, (without pain probably) on a stabilized foot.

But the injury was in his ability to find support from a flexed or diagonally planted foot. Go Browns!

AFC North training camp preview:
Key issues, players to watch


By Marc Sessler


It might feel like the dog days of summer for football fans, but the 2017 campaign is rapidly coming down the pike. With training camps opening later this month, Around The NFL's Conor Orr, Kevin Patra and Marc Sessler are examining the key issues for each team in this division-by-division series. Here's the AFC North camp primer:

Baltimore Ravens
Training camp report dates: rookies (July 19) and veterans (July 26).
Location: Under Armour Performance Center in Owings Mills, Maryland.


Most important position battle: Who will start at center? OK, OK. It's not the most exciting camp tussle in the AFC North, but the Ravens are staring at a legitimate competition in the middle of their offensive line. With Jeremy Zuttah traded away to the 49ers, Baltimore will allow rookie Brandon Kublanow and second-year blocker Matt Skura to battle for the starting role. Ryan Jensen has also logged center snaps, while math wizard John Urschel could step in if needed. With right tackle also up in the air after the free agency loss of Ricky Wagner, Baltimore's line will be a hotspot for competition all camp long.

Newcomer to watch: WR Jeremy Maclin. There are plenty of questions to be answered at wide receiver, too, but the June addition of Maclin does wonders for this position group. Expected to start in the slot, the former Eagles and Chiefs star will function as the centerpiece of the passing game with Breshad Perriman and Mike Wallace out wide. If the team can milk a breakout season from Perriman, the Ravens have a chance to make up for the frustrating loss of tight end Dennis Pitta. Put it this way: Were it not for the signing of Maclin, we'd point to this pass-catching group as a burning concern.

Looming camp question: Who will replace Tavon Young at cornerback? In the wake of Young suffering a year-ending ACL tear in June, the Ravens are searching for a starter in the slot. With Brandon Carr and Jimmy Smith locked into outside roles, look for Lardarius Webb, Brandon Boykin and second-year cover man Maurice Canady to compete for the nickel role. Canady impressed during the offseason, with coordinator Dean Pees saying in June: "The guy makes plays. That is the whole bottom line on defense." First-rounder Marlon Humphrey adds depth, but the future starter isn't expected to play a major role out of the gate. Beyond the loss of Young, the Ravens deserve credit for bolstering a secondary that was a disaster a few seasons ago. The safety duo of Eric Weddle and Tony Jefferson should be one of the AFC's best.

Cincinnati Bengals
Training camp report dates: rookies (July 25) and veterans (July 27).
Location: Paul Brown Stadium in Cincinnati.

Most important position battle: Jeremy Hill vs. Joe Mixon. Mixon has drawn rave reviews so far -- one staffer called the rookie "a beast" on offense -- so it's fair to ask how long this battle will last. With Giovani Bernard still recovering from a November ACL tear, it's likely the Bengals will use a combination of Mixon and Hill to open the campaign, but Cincinnati went into the offseason determined to find an upgrade over Hill, who is coming off an inconsistent 2016. Don't be surprised if the rookie flat-out steals the job by Labor Day.


Newcomer to watch: WR John Ross: Like the Panthers in the NFC South, the Bengals used the draft to massively upgrade their speed on offense. Mixon gives the team a devastating runner who can double as a legitimate pass-catching asset, while Ross blew people away by breaking Chris Johnson's 40-yard dash record with a 4.22 at the 2017 NFL Scouting Combine. Shoulder surgery could delay his participation for camp, but Ross promises to be a tantalizing element across from Pro Bowler A.J. Green.

Looming camp question: Will the O-line mesh? Quarterback Andy Dalton was unmercifully banged around last season to the tune of 41 sacks. Only Buffalo's Tyrod Taylor took more (42), an ominous stat for a Bengals line that proceeded to lose reliable guard Kevin Zeitler and Pro Bowl left tackle Andrew Whitworth in free agency. With disappointing 2015 first-rounder Cedric Ogbuehi slotted to take over the blind-side role and up-and-down Jake Fisher manning the right bookend, the Bengals have more questions than answers up front.

Cleveland Browns
Training camp report dates: rookies (July 23) and veterans (July 26).
Location: Cleveland Browns Training Complex in Berea, Ohio.

Most important position battle: Cody Kessler vs. Brock Osweiler vs. DeShone Kizer. Stop me if you've heard this before: The Browns have a quarterback issue. One that charts back to the turn of the century, considering that no signal caller has started a full 16 games in a season since Tim Couch pulled that off in 2001. I'm mildly surprised Osweiler is still on the roster after he was acquired through a wild March trade with the Texans that netted the Browns a second-round draft pick. I don't expect him to win this job, but anything is possible. Look for Kessler to be given a long look, while Kizer -- an intriguing physical specimen -- has a legitimate shot to start sooner than later if he impresses coach Hue Jackson.


Newcomer to watch: DE Myles Garrett. The roster-churning Browns have a million "newcomers" every season, but Garrett is something different. A rare physical freak with dazzling potential, the first overall pick in April's draft gives Cleveland a player to build around for years to come. As long as the lateral foot sprain he suffered in minicamp doesn't delay his launch, Garrett will hit camp as the immediate focal point for a defense that hasn't laid a hurt on teams since Bill Belichick ran the show in the mid-1990s.

Looming camp question: Will this defense be any different? The addition of coordinator Gregg Williams has produced its share of juicy quotes out of Cleveland. "He tells us that we have been losing here for a reason, and he is here to change it," cornerback Joe Haden said, talking about Williams bringing a new level of "accountability" to a unit that has ranked 29th and 30th in points allowed over the past two seasons. Williams has enjoyed success in the NFL, but his scheme fell apart with the Rams last season. While the Browns have intriguing pieces -- Garrett, Emmanuel Ogbah, Danny Shelton, Jamie Collins and Christian Kirksey -- in the front seven, the secondary is a concern.

Pittsburgh Steelers
Training camp report date: rookies and veterans (July 27).
Location: Saint Vincent College in Latrobe, Pennsylvania


Most important position battle: Wideout pecking order. I've predicted Pittsburgh will make the Super Bowl five years running, and I've been wrong every time. They've come dangerously close, though, because of a Ben Roethlisberger-led offense littered with star power. Beyond Le'Veon Bell in the backfield, the receiving corps -- led by the sensational Antonio Brown -- is ready to burst with red-zone wonder Martavis Bryant returning from his year-long suspension. He "looks like a stud, as usual," Big Ben said in June. Bryant is a front-runner to start alongside Brown, but it will be interesting to see how the rest of the pecking order shakes out with Sammie Coates and second-rounder JuJu Smith-Schuster. This team has the talent to score a mountain of points on a weekly basis.

Newcomer to watch: OLB T.J. Watt. It's unclear how big a role Watt will have with the Steelers' defense as a rookie, but the surname alone will guarantee plenty of buzz for the pass-rushing prospect and brother of J.J. With the Wisconsin product slotted for snaps behind Bud Dupree and James Harrison, the Steelers have a player they can get creative with right away in 2017. Pittsburgh rarely rushes along defensive rookies, but this could be an exception.

Looming camp question: Where is the mind at? I started banging out a graf about Pittsburgh's questions in the secondary, but training camp -- the beginning of a journey -- raises a larger, hazier concern: Do the Steelers truly believe they can take down the Patriots? Whether it was New England in 2016 or Denver the season prior, something always seems to get in the way of Pittsburgh vanquishing all comers in the AFC. This is arguably the most talented roster in the conference -- maybe the NFL -- but like with the Packers, it's become customary to wonder how Pittsburgh will unravel come January. Teams don't think this way, trained instead to take a militaristic, week-by-week approach to the challenges ahead. Still, I think we'll know right away if this Steelers team has the feel of a championship club.

NFL.com

The defense had BETTER be improved. Another year of experience for younger guys, the addition of Collins, and then the rookies. Not to mention Williams instead of Horton. If the D isn't improved, something is wrong

There is something wrong. It's called the secondary.

I also believe it's nonsense to think that Williams is such a huge upgrade over Horton. I didn't think Horton was very good and I argued w/people last year that his defense would not be much better than O'Neil's. Everyone seems to have forgotten those conversations because now, almost all are saying how horrible Horton was. LOL

I think the D can be better this year if Myles is who I think he is. The younger guys have a year of experience and that should help. But our secondary is terrible and Collins was ranked dead last [I believe] in his half of a season w/the Browns. Btw-------Collins played 8 games w/the Browns. It's not like he is a new "addition."

I think we'll be better, but I'm not sure how much better. I still believe we will have one of poorer defenses in the NFL.

IMO, this is clearly the weakest element of the defense. The only way I get sleep at night is these three thoughts:

1. Haden stays healthy, and can work his way back into rhythm and early too.

2. We find someone who can play outside and lineup against the #2 WR (because I think Taylor should be playing inside) and pray whoever is at all safety positions, learns their role in the defense and executes.

3. The front is able to penetrate, not allowing QBs to comfortably place balls and have time to survey the field.

I'm more worried about the FS spot than any other position (with the exception of QB obviously). I don't think we have anything there.

Excluding Qb because that is the X-factor;

I think we are one draft and free agency period dedicated to our defense away from having an above average defense.

I think that we are one draft and free agency period dedicated to the offense away from having a pretty good offense.

So that puts us 2 years out from being pretty good - if Haslam can be that patient.

If we luck into a Qb, whether that's Kizer or Darnold in the draft or what not, then I think we will be pretty good in 2019 and a force in 2020.

So 2 big if's. The Qb and the owner's patience.

Secondary and WR have to be a huge focus next year IMO. I just have no faith in the WRs from last year (or Britt). I hope I'm wrong, but I think we have the worst (or close to) play makers in the NFL

I think you're spot on in regards to the offense. I think we still need to acquire pieces (not even talking about QB).

With defense, I think we still need time, but not so much to acquire players, but more to figure out what we have and mold what we want to keep. We have a ton of young guys that can still go either way. FS needs addressed, and "our guy" of the future probably isn't on the roster, but otherwise there are a ton of guys that we have in the house that we need to watch in order to decide if they're NFL contributors or not.

The problem I had with Horton is that he didn't even come close to delivering anything that resembled what he said he was going to do. He was supposed to bring in a defense that was tailored to the players he had. I get the talent level wasn't there, but 1) when the head coach has to put a boot in the defense's arse during a game because the DC wasn't getting it done, there's a problem. 2) When I see how aggressive those same inexperienced players played the last couple games and actually looked good and I'm wondering where that defensive play calling was all season, something is wrong.

Now to be fair, Williams is also supposed to be bringing in a defense "tailored to the players we have". So while I don't blame anyone for being encouraged and basing their expectations on the personality he presents, I should think it would be healthy to have at least a modicum of skepticism because as I think you've often said: We've heard that before.

When u see a nice goaline d and 4 cover one there is something wrong lol

The thing is he has proved it everywhere he has gone.

I like coaches like Greg Williams.

I know some don't, but I do. I also liked players like Dick Butkus, Jack Tatum, Jack Lambert, Hines Ward, Conrad Dobler and Ben Davidson.

Play to win. They did.

Williams talks tough. The other guys you mentioned played tough. Big difference.

Btw---------what did he prove last year? How good was the Rams' D?

Here, let me help:

28 to SF w/Gabbert at qb.

32 to TB

30 to Buffalo.

31 to Detroit

49 to NO

42 to Atl

44 to Arizona

That's downright awful!

Those results are awful - but then again the Rams offense was equally or more putrid which is a contributing factor.

The reason Williams was available was because he had a disaster last season. But there is plenty to support him as being a significant improvement over Horton. I'd speculate (with zero facts to prove it) that over their respective careers as DC that Williams has outperformed Horton. Team talent comes into play - but it'll be real interesting to see what Williams can do with this team next year. There is some additional talent with Garrett and Peppers this year so it's not a direct comparison ....

Horton's results were awful, too. However, don't you think that Browns offense was a "contributing factor?" I can post their rankings if you want. In fact, I can tell you straight up that they were almost identical in rankings to the D.

I will also say that the Rams had way better talent on D than the Browns did.

I am not saying Williams is a bad DC. I disputed a statement from peen that said something like Williams has proven it everywhere he has gone. I didn't even mention what happened in Washington and NO.

I am taking the same position as I took last year when people were upset that I was not supporting Horton. I think it has to do a lot more w/talent and experience than coaching at the NFL level.

Its not even close to a direct comparision ...

Williams is a way better DC than Horton ... its not even close ...

Jesus. I remember you saying that........ And I remember arguing that Horton would be much better than O'Neil.

Although, I do think they both failed for different reasons. Horton wasn't good for the team we had. O'Neil just wasn't good. He had more talent on his defense, and more veterans. Horton didn't have that.


But sadly, I remember you pretty much saying that, and me arguing you were wrong....... you did win on that one

It's just my opinion. I'd rather have Williams over Horton. The reasoning may be as simple as I like Williams and didn't like Horton.

It may work out that it doesn't work. I just like thet type of personality on my football team.

I loved Mike Ditka, both as a player and coach. Buddy Ryan is another. Bum Phillips, Paul Brown.

Thanks bro, but I am not trying to "win." Just trying to keep things real. Because I know what happens when expectations are not met.

I like GW better than RH too. Horton didn't seem to connect with the players for some reason. All we can do now is wait and see how things progress during the season. Hopefully we'll finally have a D we can be proud of.

What expertise do you have that allows you to make such a statement?

Let me clarify.............I am not saying one is better than the other. I really have no idea. But, I am curious as to how what inside information, training, or expertise you have that would allow you to be so definitive?

Inquiring minds would love to know...

For starters one of them is an NFL DC ... does Horton even have a job? ...

Is that enough or would u like more from this moron with an opinion?

I never called you a moron. I'm asking how can you make such a definitive statement.

You do realize there was a time when Ray Horton was one of the hottest head coaching candidates in the league, right? He didn't get the AZ HC job and came to Cleveland.

I am also saying that no one could have put out a respectable defense w/what the Browns had on that side of the ball last year.

The talent is a bit better this year, but it's still subpar...........so just like last year, I think it might be a tad illogical to put so much stock into a new coordinator making a huge difference.

I know u didn't call me a moron, I DID ... and i understood your question ...



Yes, I know how hot of a HC candidate he was back then ...

How many years ago did he come to c-town the first time and how many jobs has he had since then? .. what success has he had since then?



I agree ... THATS NOT WHAT THIS DISCUSSION S ABOUT ...OOOPS on the caps ..



Define 'Huge" ... serious question .. i think his systems are simplier and will be much better suited to the types of players we now have and all the YOUNGINS on the team ...

Are we going to be a top 10 or even 15 D? .. not a shot in hell ... but i do think we will be better due to the talent and the fact Williams is a better DC than Horton and for this group hes a better fit ...

Let's get something straight right off the bat. I never said who was the better DC. If I had to guess, I would say Williams, but it would only be a guess. And I think I have a bit more experience in such things than you do. And I do not mean that to be offensive.

I simply questioned how you could make such a bold, definitive statement.

You say the discussion wasn't about who could have put a respectable defense out there last year, but dawg, there have been multiple posts over time saying that Horton was the problem and deserved to be fired.

And I know you weren't around last year, but we were having a very similar conversation last year when I said that Horton wouldn't make much of a difference in the the D because our talent sucked. I was "dumb" and "negative" at that time, too. LOL

Define huge? Hmmmm............I've seem posts saying we will be in the top 10 15 defenses. I don't think we will come close to reaching that point. I saw an article that said our front seven was going to be monstrous. I disagree, because for one thing, none of them have done squat yet......and more importantly, when you have a secondary who can't cover their shadows, your pass rushers have a hard time getting there.

We'll see, Diam.............

Williams or Horton, I don't care - I want whoever gives us the best chance to win and I think with the players we have, a 4-3 front fits that more so. For that reason alone, I'll take Williams.

Just wondering..............there have been several posts where posters have claimed our talent fits a 4-3 better.

Does that mean those same posters believe the FO was clueless when assembling the roster last year?

LOL...........maybe I should plant this idea in mac's head on the FO thread.

Also, I think having a D-Coordinator down on the field will be very helpful. I think Horton ran things from the booth. To me, this can work with a veteran defense. Not with the defense we had last year though.

People criticized Hue for leaving the offensive play calling duties to Hamilton (which, he helped formulate the gameplan), and having gone over to the defense and yelled at them or something.

But had a D-Coordinator been down ont he field, he probably wouldn't have had to do that.


This team is just too young to run things from the booth IMO

I disagree. I know that you have a lot better view of formations, blocking schemes, and route trees from the box than you do the field.

The in-game motivation thing at the NFL level is overblown.

Maybe with a veteran team. But IMO with a young team like ours, having the D-Coordinator on the field, able to talk to the players for the couple minutes the offense is on the field a game would be more helpful.

He is essentially the leader, and someone everyone answers to.


I can certainly agree with teams with a heavy veteran presence, but we didn't have that last year. The truth is, Demario Davis is no Karlos Dansby, not in the way he's looked up to by his teammates, not in his game neither