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if i tried to kill someone, but didn't succeed, are you saying i didn't commit a crime?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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if i broke into your house, but didn't get a chance to steal anything, are you cool if i don't get punished?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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if i broke into your house, but didn't get a chance to steal anything, are you cool if i don't get punished? Kind of different scenarios, don't you think? If you broke into my house, you would be punished. If you talked to my neighbor about HOW to break into my house, but you didn't do it, how could you be punished?
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if i tried to kill someone, but didn't succeed, are you saying i didn't commit a crime? Define "tried to kill someone" for me. I mean, if you pulled a gun, yeah, you should be punished. If all you did was think about it, what crime would've been committed?
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But everything I've read - and maybe I've missed some things - has said russia didn't, as in, DID NOT, affect the election. (actual votes).
So what if they didn't affect a thing? They still hacked in and tried. And the GOP nominee even asked Putin for help.... "Russia if you're listening" But as little or big the affect was...there was an affect on U.S. voters.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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But everything I've read - and maybe I've missed some things - has said russia didn't, as in, DID NOT, affect the election. (actual votes).
So what if they didn't affect a thing? They still hacked in and tried. And the GOP nominee even asked Putin for help.... "Russia if you're listening" You keep saying that "russia, if you're listening" crap. Are you really that dense? Like russia needed an invite from trump? Come on, you can't be that ignorant, can you? "So what if they didn't affect a thing"? Yeah, so what? Nothing happened.
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as far as rigging, i dunno how many different ways needs to be explained to you, but when people say rigged, they are implying what the intelligence community said the russians did: got into accounts and other social media outlets to spread a false narrative that could undermine clinton, as well as other things. I do not agree that this would be considered 'rigging'. I would consider it trying to influence the election. Meddling might be another reasonable term. Rigging implies something more sinister, like changing votes without people's knowledge, or setting things up in some crazy/unfair manner (The overall setup of the DNC with the Superdelegate system and the treatment of Bernie Sanders in general might qualify. Ask OCD about that one.) also, did you already forget? Report: Russia Launched Cyberattack On Voting Vendor Ahead Of Election http://www.npr.org/2017/06/05/531649602/...ead-of-election_____________________ lemme guess, you're gonna give the classic "i didn't know about this" excuse you typically give when information is given to you. this was already posted on the board, by the way, a while back. so apparently they literally tried to get into our systems. it doesn't matter if they were successful or not, that's a freaking crime. the only thing indefensible is you defending any of these actions, knowing full well if the shoe was on the other foot and this was clinton, you'd be burning her at the stake. the entire administration/family is corrupt scumbags. this investigation is gonna tell us if they are criminal scumbags, or just normal rich assholes who have no business in public service. Did this affect the outcome of the election by even a single vote? If not, then you can't say the election was rigged because of this either.
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But everything I've read - and maybe I've missed some things - has said russia didn't, as in, DID NOT, affect the election. (actual votes).
So what if they didn't affect a thing? They still hacked in and tried. And the GOP nominee even asked Putin for help.... "Russia if you're listening" You keep saying that "russia, if you're listening" crap. Are you really that dense? Like russia needed an invite from trump? Come on, you can't be that ignorant, can you? "So what if they didn't affect a thing"? Yeah, so what? Nothing happened. It had to affect some voters. You can't be that ignorant can you? I'll repeat.... "Russia if you're listening"
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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You're speculating...where's the proof a vote was changed?
I'm also enjoying all this speculation on this topic.
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You're speculating...where's the proof a vote was changed?
I'm also enjoying all this speculation on this topic. This seems to be an ongoing theme when actually it's irrelevant. The simple fact is, nobody on either side of this debate can say with any certainty whether votes were changed or not. There's simply no way to establish that. That doesn't however change what the Russians did. IMO it's the reason why Trump himself won't flat out say that the Russians were responsible for the hacking. He believes if he admits that, it will cast doubt about the legitimacy of his presidency. When in fact, it wouldn't. Like I said, this is a silly argument that neither side can prove.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You're speculating...where's the proof a vote was changed?
I'm also enjoying all this speculation on this topic. No votes were ever changed. Democrats are still mad that their own collusion with the media and the deceptive behavior of their party and candidate (public position vs private position, etc.) were exposed to the world.
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See Pit both sides can agree on things 
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No votes were ever changed.
You have absolutely no way of knowing this. Neither do those who say that votes were changed.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You're speculating...where's the proof a vote was changed?
I'm also enjoying all this speculation on this topic. No votes were ever changed. Democrats are still mad that their own collusion with the media and the deceptive behavior of their party and candidate (public position vs private position, etc.) were exposed to the world. I read that Ukraine along with Uranium One are not closed yet, just on the back burner until proof comes out. Maybe I heard it on Fox...not looking for a link
Last edited by daytnabacker; 07/11/17 03:14 PM.
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You're speculating...where's the proof a vote was changed?
I'm also enjoying all this speculation on this topic. This seems to be an ongoing theme when actually it's irrelevant. The simple fact is, nobody on either side of this debate can say with any certainty whether votes were changed or not. There's simply no way to establish that. That doesn't however change what the Russians did. IMO it's the reason why Trump himself won't flat out say that the Russians were responsible for the hacking. He believes if he admits that, it will cast doubt about the legitimacy of his presidency. When in fact, it wouldn't. Like I said, this is a silly argument that neither side can prove. By no votes were ever changed, I mean that no votes were ever altered on the ballots or within the election software or whatever. I suppose there's no way to establish that either (?) but that isn't even what is being suggested, so I assume that didn't happen. Whether people changed their minds on the candidates and thus their votes based on public knowledge, yes, surely that happened and I think that's what you're alluding to. There's really no way to establish how much that affected things. I think votes were swinged but surely not enough to actually change the outcome of the election. That the Russians favored Trump is pretty well established at this point. How deep that goes is hard to say, but I do look forward to the conclusion of the FBI investigation.
Last edited by Haus; 07/11/17 03:16 PM. Reason: clarified a couple things
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The person that Donald Trump Jr. met with was not part of the Russian government. Here's his full statement:
To everyone, in order to be totally transparent, I am releasing the entire email chain of my emails with Rob Goldstone about the meeting on June 9, 2016. The first email on June 3, 2016 was from Rob, who was relating a request from Emin, a person I knew from the 2013 Ms. Universe Pageant near Moscow. Emin and his father have a very highly respected company in Moscow. The information they suggested they had about Hillary Clinton I thought was Political Opposition Research. I first wanted to just have a phone call but when that didn't work out, they said the woman would be in New York and asked if I would meet. I decided to take the meeting. The woman, as she has said publicly, was not a government official. And, as we have said, she had no information to provide and wanted to talk about adoption policy and the Magnitsky Act. To put this in context, this occurred before the current Russian fever was in vogue. As Rob Goldstone said just today in the press, the entire meeting was "the most insane nonsense I ever heard. And I was actually agitated by it." In the emails to DJT Jr. he (goldstone) calls her a government Lawyer.. What more do you need to see. No matter if she was or wasn't, Jr. thought she was because his buddy told him so.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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[quote=daytnabacker] You're speculating...where's the proof a vote was changed?
I'm also enjoying all this speculation on this topic. This seems to be an ongoing theme when actually it's irrelevant. The simple fact is, nobody on either side of this debate can say with any certainty whether votes were changed or not. There's simply no way to establish that. That doesn't however change what the Russians did. IMO it's the reason why Trump himself won't flat out say that the Russians were responsible for the hacking. He believes if he admits that, it will cast doubt about the legitimacy of his presidency. When in fact, it wouldn't. Like I said, this is a silly argument that neither side can prove.
By no votes were ever changed, I mean that no votes were ever altered on the ballots or within the election software or whatever. I suppose there's no way to establish that either (?) but that isn't even what is being suggested, so I assume that didn't happen.
Whether people changed their minds on the candidates and thus their votes based on public knowledge, yes, surely that happened and I think that's what you're alluding to. There's really no way to establish how much that affected things. I think votes were swinged but surely not enough to actually change the outcome of the election.
That the Russians favored Trump is pretty well established at this point. How deep that goes is hard to say, but I do look forward to the conclusion of the FBI investigation.
Russian Meddling in our election process may not have physically changed votes, it may have caused people to change from Hillary to Donald. The trouble with all of this is two fold in my eyes. 1. They (the trump folks) LIED... 2. Regardless of anything else, our election process was hacked into by an adversary. Maybe you don't want to believe Trumps folks (and perhaps trump himself) LIED. But you can't tell me you are ok with Russia messing with our election. Can you? And I wouldn't be so sure you should be looking forward to anything.
Last edited by Damanshot; 07/11/17 03:31 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Thanks for you and Haus clearing that up for me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Thanks for you and Haus clearing that up for me. You are welcome, I think? what did we clear up?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Russian Meddling in our election process may not have physically changed votes, it may have caused people to change from Hillary to Donald. I can't fathom a person that would have changed from one to the other, far more likely that Hillary voters just didn't vote at all or voted 3rd party after all of the negative press.. but I can't imagine somebody thinking they were voting for Hillary one day, seeing some negative press, then deciding to vote for Trump... I guess it's possible. But you can't tell me you are ok with Russia messing with our election. Can you? I'm not ok with it. Unfortunately we live in a world with less and less respect and fewer and fewer boundaries of what people think is "ok".... Countries have tried to influence elections in other countries for many decades but it used to be a slow laborious process of trying to influence people one at a time and had very minimal results... now with the internet, hack somebody to get some dirt or just cook up a fake news story and send it to hundreds of millions of people in an instant.. as we all know, even if it is later proved to be not true, once it's out there, it will be repeated in public circles forever...
yebat' Putin
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I was speaking about Russia hacking the election having an impact on the voters. There's no way to say whether that had an impact on any voters. You two were speaking of actual votes being changed by the attempted hacking of voting machines and local elections.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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THIS is what it looks like when the crap hits the fan.
The accumulation of denials, omissions, modified statements based on new discoveries, and now a written link... looks really bad for Trump and company. Long way to go to prove it's bad or nothing but there will definitely be LOTS of investigations.
Personally I feel they are guilty of obstruction, collusion, and perjury but only time will tell. The GOP is pretty much absent in response to today's breaking news... I find that very interesting.
My friend 40 and his posse will no doubt try to twist this story with the old ruskie/trumpian propaganda playbook, but we are starting to see the truth come to light.
We shouldn't be looking for leakers, we should be handing out medals to these patriot whistleblowers.
I just wonder if Pence will get snared up in this too since he made such firm denials. If this goes south for Trump's administration, how far will it go? Lots of people on the news using the word treason today.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 07/11/17 04:12 PM.
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Russian Meddling in our election process may not have physically changed votes, it may have caused people to change from Hillary to Donald.
The trouble with all of this is two fold in my eyes.
1. They (the trump folks) LIED...
2. Regardless of anything else, our election process was hacked into by an adversary.
Maybe you don't want to believe Trumps folks (and perhaps trump himself) LIED.
But you can't tell me you are ok with Russia messing with our election. Can you?
And I wouldn't be so sure you should be looking forward to anything.
Stop the presses someone lied! So Jr lied send him to the corner. Is this meddling new to you? Its been happening for DECADES. We do it also. Why is it different now? The only reason we're not talking about Hillary and Ukraine, Russia and the Clinton Foundation donations is because she lost. Get over all this crap. Thank God the Senate Republicans are putting off August recess. Now get health care right you damn idiots!
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So now we normalize treasonous acts in defense of Trump? GMAB, you are looking pretty foolish right now.
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So now we normalize treasonous acts in defense of Trump? GMAB, you are looking pretty foolish right now. So now we go straight to "treasonous"?? You are looking pretty foolish right now.
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So now we normalize treasonous acts in defense of Trump? GMAB, you are looking pretty foolish right now. So now we go straight to "treasonous"?? You are looking pretty foolish right now. You are so predictable.
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So now we normalize treasonous acts in defense of Trump? GMAB, you are looking pretty foolish right now. I'm sorry but this is downright ridiculous! Maybe Obama can pull some strings and get him off like Bradley I mean Chelsea Manning. Treason meant nothing to him.
Last edited by daytnabacker; 07/11/17 04:49 PM.
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No where near as predictable as you, but, you're special.
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So now we normalize treasonous acts in defense of Trump? GMAB, you are looking pretty foolish right now. I'm sorry but this is downright ridiculous! Maybe Obama can pull some strings and get him off like Bradley I mean Chelsea Manning. Treason meant nothing to him. More Russian Propaganda Tactics.
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I can't help but wonder what Vers thinks of all this.
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So now we normalize treasonous acts in defense of Trump? GMAB, you are looking pretty foolish right now. I'm sorry but this is downright ridiculous! Maybe Obama can pull some strings and get him off like Bradley I mean Chelsea Manning. Treason meant nothing to him. More Russian Propaganda Tactics. I guess you got me...I've been colluding with the Russians. 
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lol the trumpians got their capes on today. full spin mode.
i need to find where they offer spin and deflect courses at.
can't find it at a state school, probably a for profit christian school though. will the GI bill pay for that?
does bill o'reilly teach that course?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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oh, and on a serious note.
Trump jr could be charged with espionage. for you trumpians who don't know what the definition is:
es·pi·o·nage
ˈespēəˌnäZH/Submit
noun
the practice of spying or of using spies, typically by governments to obtain political and military information.
Espionage (colloquially, spying) is the obtaining of information considered secret or confidential without the permission of the holder of the information.[1] Espionage can be committed by an individual or a spy ring (a cooperating group of spies), in the service of a government, company or operating independently. The practice is inherently clandestine, as it is by definition unwelcome and in many cases illegal and punishable by law. Espionage is a subset of "intelligence" gathering, which includes espionage as well as information gathering from public sources.
____
hope he has an awesome lawyer
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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and kushner could be charged with perjury.
for you trumpians who don't know what the definition is:
per·ju·ry
ˈpərj(ə)rē/Submit
nounLAW
the offense of willfully telling an untruth in a court after having taken an oath or affirmation.
Perjury is the intentional act of swearing a false oath or of falsifying an affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing, concerning matters material to an official proceeding.[1][A] Contrary to popular misconception, no crime has occurred when a false statement is (intentionally or unintentionally) made while under oath or subject to penalty—instead, criminal culpability only attaches at the instant the declarant falsely asserts the truth of statements (made or to be made) which are material to the outcome of the proceeding. For example, it is not perjury to lie about one's age except where age is a fact material to influencing the legal result, such as eligibility for old age retirement benefits or whether a person was of an age to have legal capacity.
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read that part very carefully. that applies to Flynn, Kushner, and *possibly Sessions.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Trump was supposed to give a press conference on damaging Hillary info a few days after this meeting happened; the press conference never happened.
Trump knew.
For those who doubt, look up his New Jersey primary victory speech.
This would implicate Trump in collusion.
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i agree, the fact that you guys turn a blind eye to this is confusing.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Emails reveal Trump Jr. offered
info on Clinton to show 'Russia
and its government's support for
Mr. Trump'
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