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Hortons last five teams including az. 26, 26, 31, 31,32. I doubt he ever gets another dc job in the NFL.

You weren't being offensive but you were implying your opinion carries more weight than mine cause u were a coach ... that may be true with most but not me ... with me sometimes that's true and sometimes it ain't ... but we can always count on u pointing it out ... at least your consistent ...



This convo is with me and what I say, not the rest of the board .. I never said that .. not once .. I'm glad he got fired but never once have I blamed last years debacle on him .. my saying last year was u could have had Vince as HC, Walsh as OC and Billicheck as DC and that team still would have stunk ...



I would not have said that last year and if u feel Williams won't make that big of difference this year i wouldn't call u dumb or negative now ... we just disagree on how much of an impact he'll make this year ... just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm calling u dumb, negative or a LIAR ..



Me neither , I said that in my initial post ... direct it towards those that say it, not to me ...



U didn't' answer my question ...

Thats the buety part of it ... we'll see ...

You completely ignored the advantage of being able to see formations, route trees, blocking schemes, motion, etc better while you are above the field. I think that is a much bigger advantage than talking face to face w/a player.

A couple of things:

--What's wrong w/being consistent when it's true? I don't know what qualifications that you have that make you a football genius. Please elaborate.

--I generally talk to the entire board when I make posts like that. If it was simply a one-on-one conversation, it could take place in a pm.

--What question did I not answer? The "define huge..." question?

If so, I thought I did answer it. I don't think we will be going from 30th and 31st in points and yards to top 10 or even top 15. Is that plain enough for you?

Last reply by me to U in this thread .. your going to places I ain't going with U ... u ain't sucking me in to your non football BS ...



Nothing at all ... just because u coached football doesn't mean your opinions are better than everyone else's ... time has proven that its better than most but not all ... proof is in the pudding ...



Like i said if nothing else your consistent .. calling myself a moron was a pre-cursor to the statement i just quoted ... i don't claim to be a football genius ... just because u coached doesn't mean u are either ...



Thanks for clearing that up ... ...



Ya ... that would be the one ...



Ya .. thats plain enough for even my moron ass ...

If thats the definition were using .. then i agree, he won't make a "huge" difference ...

Go ahead .. do your thing .. i ain't getting sucked into to the non football BS with U, so like i said .. this will be my last reply to U on this thread unless its STRICTLY ABOUT FOOTBALL and not how much more qualified u are than everyone else on the board when it comes to football knowledge ...

I was talking football. You were the one who brought up the "moron" stuff.

And I never said a thing about me "knowing" who was a better d-coordinator. I wasn't tooting my own horn. I even said that Williams was probably the better DC if I had to guess. I simply was asking you what makes you an expert to make the comment you did.

You can roll your eyes, make crap up about "sucking you in," etc. I don't really care. I talk football all the time.

Of course I did, I was talking about the advantages of being down on the field.

Yes, those are the advantages of being up top. But I think those are outweighed by the advantages I listed when it comes to a team like ours (that was young, with little veteran presence). On a team like ours two years ago, with guys like Dansby, Whitner, Kreuger, Des Bryant, and so on, it makes less of a difference having a coach on the field. Those guys can rally the troops, and understand their job and what not.


With a young team, like ours last year, I think that was a problem for us. Lack of leadership on the defense. Lack of fire. And so on. I think with a Defensive Coach down near the field, that would have been handled. Just htere to assure guys when they're doing something right, keep everyone focused on what they're doing. A clear leader that they can see when they are on the sidelines. For young players, that's helpful IMO

We disagree and that's fine.

I'm in the "its a personal choice" as to where the dc is ... theres advantages and disadvantages to both ..

For me ... its whatever the dc feels comfie with as far as sideline vs booth goes ...

Also, what's most helpful to the guys that you're coaching.

I was a teacher at one point. Social Studies, only one year, but I have a degree in secondary education and history.

Anyway, when it came to teaching, I always thought you had to weigh what was best for the class. That would basically amount to, how can you best get the content across to your class.

You have to take a look at your strengths and weaknesses, and the classes strengths and weaknesses, and sort of see what will produce the best outcome. I think the same can be said for a coach. And it could be said for whether the guy should be in the booth or not.


What is best for the team is what it all comes down to. Vers and I disagreed, but IMO, for the team that we had last year, the best place for our D-Coordinator IMO would be right there on the field with them.

Not where he's comfy, or where he thinks he's at his best. But what's best for the guys that we have fielded at that moment. And that can be said in terms of playcalling, or pretty much anything

Some good insight IMO. I taught as well. Always preferred to be on the field when coaching and among the kids and active so I could look for and cause questions. Games are teaching moments for newbies as well. Booth helps early; later, be amongst them.

I was hoping you would let it go, but I suppose not.

I disagree w/your takes. These are grown men you are dealing with. Not kids in a school room.

I don't want my OC or DC getting into emotional conversations w/players on the sideline. I want him calm, cool, and focused on calling the right plays for his team to succeed. There is the HC to talk to players on the sidelines. There are plethora of assistant coaches to talk to the players on the sidelines. There are even other players to talk to on the sidelines.

The advantages of being in the box beat the crap out of school room psychology every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I like them on the sidelines. People up top can let him know what they are doing with various alignments.

lol, I was replying to Diam, who was replying to me. I think we recognized that we disagree and that was that.

But since we will continue, I disagree when you refer to them as "grown men". I just think you give early and mid-20's guys too much credit. I'm 32. Now, maybe i'm not so sure because i'm not as good at anything as these guys are, but with guys like Ibraheim Cambpell, Kindred, Danny Shelton, Emmanuel Ogbah, Nassib, Schobert, and so-on, we had a bunch of first and second year players on this team getting lots of playing-time.

And I think some reassurance by having their d-coordinator down on the field, where they can ask him questions, where he can reassure them that they're doing the right thing, can be a good thing.


And our head coach is busy calling plays when our defense is on the sidelines. And an assistant isn't the head of the defense. That's what the D-Coordinator is. I'm not saying I want a guy getting into emotional conversations all the time or whatever. More a guy to be there, that they can see, and who can go over there and give a pat on the back or whatever.

Just is what I prefer with a young team like ours was. And I just don't see many of these guys as "Grown Men". Just my view as a 32 year old, looking at guys in their mid-20's and early-20's that i know

There are times when a coach has to chew someone's ass .... even if they are grown men. Different coaches motivate players in different ways. There are examples of successful coaches of every kind. Heck, Bill Parcells called Terry Glenn "Her" in a press conference.

j/c:

Guys, you want your coordinators focused on the game. You want them to be calm, cool, and focused. NFL teams have positional coaches for all of what you are talking about.

For example, you often see the OL coach or the secondary coach talking to his unit. It is rare when you see coordinators doing such things.

I want results; I don't care at all about their demeanor or where they sit, or what tactics they use to get their results.

I do not give extra credit for style points.

I will be interested this year to see where the DC's are for the games ... not sure they ever really talk about it or show it .. but now I'm curious ...

Valid points ... and i concur about the part the DC should do whats best for the players ... if the dc feels more comfie in the booth does he really need to be on the sideline .. can't one of his assistants talk to the youngins? ..

And what about OC's .. what do u prefer for them? ...

Vers - what about u .. whats your preference for the O-coordinators? ..

The same. I like them in the booth. Heck, I might even contend that the OC should be in the box more than the DC. Not sure about that, but it makes some sense, due to defenses disguising coverages on certain down and distances. Gotta keep cool and detached. Play calling is the only focus. Allow positional coaches to do their jobs coaching-up players.

Now, w/that said...........there are coordinators who are in the booth and coordinators on the field. Like you said earlier, it's their preference. I suppose it's simply an opinion as to which is better and I will never debate that.

I am just expressing my opinion that I want my coordinators in the box.

Williams doesn't come across as a guy who would be at his best in the box. I think he thrives on the in-game interaction with his players, and they react to him in turn.

How do u feel about OC's that are also head coaches .. where do u think they should be? .. crap theres a ton of them now ...

Hue, Payton, McCarthy, Shanny ... and thats just to name a few ..

Does the duel role change that and if so why

Thats an interesting variable to ad in to the equation .. he seems like a no-nonsnse dude and he will get in your face if he feels its warranted ...

Im guessing we'll see him on the sideline ... will be interesting to see where he chooses to coach from ...

The HC almost has to be on the field. The only times I saw a HC in the booth was when they were returning from an illness or injury. They are the ones talking to the officials, throwing challenge flags, addressing all units and members of the team, etc.

I am not a huge fan of HC's who call their own plays. It's been successfully done, but I prefer that the play caller focuses in on only that task.

Again, it's just an opinion.

I've never been a big fan of the head coaches calling plays either. While there have been a few exceptions where it works, there have been even more examples of where it doesn't (Pat Shurmur for example).

I feel the head coach really needs to be in a position of delegation so that he can take in the whole picture and make sure the entire machine is running smoothly.

JMHO.

But honestly, Pat Shurmur wasn't a particularly good O-Coordinator either. He didn't have the credentials that Hue does.


Andy Reid, Mike McCarthy both call their own plays. They've been pretty successful

It was just my opinion, and that was one example, but there are more. I think Jason Garrett was another good example where being HC and calling plays was too much.

Bruce Arians, Jay Gruden, Sean Payton, Adam Gase, Bill O'Brien, Bob McAdoo, Doug Pederson, Dirk Koetter, Sean McVay, and Kyle Shanahan call/will call their own plays. This is not some unusual thing.

Who said it was unusual? I just listed my preference.

Certainly not Tom Jones.

I'm married. It's very unusual now to be either loved or to have fun.

Opinions are frowned upon by some, unless of course, they completely glorify everything the Browns are doing at this current point in time.

Gotcha, just my opinion retorting your opinion.


Honestly, I worry less about the head coaching calling their plays as I do that we are going into this season without an O-Coordinator. I'm just hoping the Hue knows more than I do and he has his way of doing things so that they all get together and formulate their plans, etc

I was helping support your point.

Oh. Thanks. I guess I don't see how that supports it.

LOL..............it doesn't.

Sorry. I meant to respond to Petey.

This stuff has me freaking out man, I want a guy upstairs and a guy downstairs, I want someone that is able to read the looks on our players faces, who can know who is disheartened getting pushed around, and is there to listen to our player saying, " stop ignoring me, I totally am owning the guy lining up across from me.

And I want a guy who can see the whole 100 yards from the booth to see how the other team is lining up and moving around all over the "whole" field from an aerial perspective.

If only there were a way to have both.
If they don't have both we won't succeed.

There is a head coach and positional coaches who can do all of that, Throw.

I think that there are a large number of coordinators who sit in the box and also a large number of of coordinators who stay on the field.

I was simply voicing my opinion as to what I personally prefer. That doesn't mean I am right. Far from it. Obviously, coordinators are divided on the issue. It's just a matter of personal opinion.

I get the argument that Petey made. I am just saying that I want my coordinators focused on play calling and not having to baby sit players and deal w/all the emotion of the game. I want them totally focused on calling plays. And again, I am not saying my way is right. It's just an opinion.

Yes, Obviously. I wasn't being "completely" serious. Kind of like when Steve Carell portrays a villainacal character in the movie despicable me; I was moreso just trying to illustrate the nonsensical nature of the argument.

or.

Whew! Thank God they have both, if only there were some magical device with which they could communicate back and forth, or that one person could be in two places at once.
It's settled, we've got to get 2 defensive coordinators, ahem, Offensive too.

You mean like texting?