DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Who shines on offense?

My track record at officially doing this is basically 1-1.

I thought Skrine would "break out" and then he played well.

Then I thought Mingo would do the same...nope.

I'm going with DeValve this year...but not enough to change my signature.

I was thinking DeValve too.

We better hope that Crow/Duke have good years ... the run game will be emphasized.

But we also need ONE of the 2nd year guys to really make a stride. You'd hope Coleman could be the one (I mean, after all he is a 1st round pick) but I actually think he'll be a bust. Maybe DeValve? Higgins? Payton? Louis? ... One of those guys have to stick.

I also don't have much confidence in Britt.

Coleman and Njoku - those are the guys I will be looking to shine if we are going to win 5-6+ games this year. With Britt contributing solidly as a #2.

I've always liked Duke's evasiveness - but I really think Hue likes Crowell a lot and will feature him heavily. I think Duke is going to be too limited in touches to really shine.

Two guys:

Joe Thomas will once again play at an All Pro level and Crow is our most talented skill player. He'll be even better if Cody is not the qb.

I recently read an article where the author's opinion was that Duke Johnson would have a breakout season.

The basis of his opinion is that Dayes will prove to be a good 3rd down RB option due to his excellent pass catching AND PASS BLOCKING skills. He is not saying that Dayes will beat-out Duke for the 3rd down role...instead he is saying that the coaches will risk (see * below) playing Duke more frequently - knowing that they have a viable 3rd down back (backup) - which will lead to more all-around touches for Duke. He's clear that Duke is superior to Dayes...but the emergence of Dayes will lead to more willingness to risk playing Duke more often.

* - When talking about the risk of playing Duke more often, the author mentioned that Duke seems to get dinged a lot. Not enough to take him out of the game or miss games, but enough to be concerned with. He was also expecting Duke to play the slot WR at times and felt he could be successful there. He's NOT viewing Duke as Crow's backup. He's expecting Atkinson/? to make the team as the primary backup to Crow...bigger, hammer-type guy.

I thought his points were interesting.

On board with Njoku, yes, he is a rookie, BUT he has good hands and can jump out of stadium....I see him as a real stud all over the field....GO Browns!!!!

Vers - I know you like Crow much better than Duke. And with an OL that blows open some holes we should see the best of him this year. With Duke and just a sliver of space I never see the first guy tackle him - and often not the second guy either. . . I don't know that you are down on him as such - but I know you'd take Crow every day of the week in preference. My biggest concern with Crow is how often he seemingly loses his balance or finds a way to get tackled by the last guy because he's not in complete control of his direction - but love his burst and toughness. I can easily see 1200 yards if he stays healthy and Hue continues to run it.

As for how good he is if the QB is Cody ... I have to say that if Cody is the starter then Hue thinks he's our best QB - and that means he's Crow's best chance of success. Just my interpretation on whoever the QB ends up being. . . . . Based on last year and no deep throws it would hurt - but we have to trust that if he's starting Cody has improved. (or Brock and Kizer are REALLY bad!)

WSU - I can see the logic and I think with a lot more touches I would expect to see Duke do some great things. And I also agree with the impression he gets nicked and dinged up a little. . . . But I still maintain that Hue likes Crow and wants to slam him into the defense like a battering ram. It's a really nice 1-2 punch imo.

I'm intrigued to see how good some of the new rookie RB's are this year - there are a lot that could do well this year. Mixon, Hunt, Fournette, Cook, McCaffrey . . . . in an age of the passing game I think 3 or 4 of those 5 are going to do something pretty special.

Sad truth, and I don't want to say it but

If Seth DeValve, Randall Telfer, or Ranell Hall belong anywhere in the NFL because of their abilities, I've yet to see it.

There are others.

The skilled position offensive players, as a group, as a whole, may be as bad as any year I can think of, but they're still not as bad as the back 6 on defense last year; excluding Haden.

When the Browns prove to be no better, and people ask why, I'll ask them to look at this:
When was the last time the Browns improved the 3rd or 4th, 5th best WR, or the 2nd or 3rd tight end, or the 3rd,or 4th Rb, over what they had the previous year.

They just don't want depth. Don't appear willing to sacrifice to get it, and a little hopeful development of the same guy is not anywhere = to keeping that guy and getting another to challenge him too.

Everything I say or you read on DawgTalkers can't always be sunshine and candy canes with Orange colored glasses.

If I'm wrong the games will prove it.

And people who are so excited about this offseason and the new changes, well, I'm hopeful, but , it looks a lot like the same thing they did one of the first years of heckert/Holmgren. (and many of the other years)

And other years. A big name D-line guy, like, Mingo, or Wimbley, or Shelton, or Phil T. or Washington, or (is gonna make all the difference)

Some solid free agents in the D-backfield, like Winfield, or countless others of other years

Maybe a big name inside O-lineman going to "finaly give our qb time, for sure, and have to improve the run game, for sure,
just like everybody else, all the other interior lineman free agents of the past, going back to , (oh the names are escaping my memory, on the tip of my tongue)

and ignoring, largely ignoring the skilled positions on offense.

My point is the formula is the same, that's the only point I'm trying to make.

Hey just waive the most productive Wr, on your team in the offseason two years running and arguably 3 different players, and does this sound like a recipe for success, or expectations to shock the rest of the NFL?

It is what it is, let's hope the youth's can produce.

Just think of all the things that HAVE to go right for the Browns to win on a day if both Crowell and Duke have a terrible day. (Which will happen, on occasion).

I think the list is something like.

The Browns will have to be +1 probably +2 in the turnover ratio.
Somebody will have to get a touchdown apart from the offense, probabably a defensive score or a return score, or AT LEAST a very big return for almost a td from them.

The FG unit will have to get more FG's than the other team on the day.

The Offense will have to avoid qb pressures, or qb disruptions, along with not turning the ball over which would be a must if #1 above is true.

The Browns will probably have to get at least 3 first downs, and some big plays 15+ yard catches from the tight end position alone.

Somebody's going to have to have a big-- play, like one play over 40 yards; probably have to end in a TD.

Both of the #1 and #2 recievers are going to have to have above average days.

And the defense is going to, above getting turnovers to put the Browns + in the turnover category, the defense is going to have to have a good day stopping the other team from running the ball.

..^^^

All of this I figure has to happen if the Browns are going to win on a day when both Crowell and Duke have a poor day.

The only reason I don't suggest Njoku is because, generally, I feel like TEs struggle in their first year, just like WRs. Clearly, exceptions exist, but I kinda went went the trends.

Still, I'm very interested to see how Njoku & DeValve will be used this year.

Allow me to clarify. I like both guys. I'm not down on Duke at all. I think he's what most people call a "3rd down" back. Obviously, we are in quite a few 2nd and longs, so he might see snaps there, too. He could even be a "change of pace" back.

I do not think he is durable enough to be the starter. I like how he's been used thus far in his career. He had a lot of nagging injuries in college. Not terrible injuries, but he was banged up quite a bit. We've seen some of that in the pros, too.

I think Crow is extremely underrated by many board members. It's a bit odd, because I think a lot of our players have been overrated by many board members.

I get the tripping part, but he runs w/a very good forward lean and he tries to dive forward when he thinks he is going down. This works against him at times, but I think the point is exaggerated. I love his acceleration through the hole and ability to beat one-on-one tacklers. He gets to the second level quickly and can break big runs due to this asset. I think he is a pretty good blocker and a decent receiver. He did drop a few last year, though.

I like our two running backs and am very comfortable w/both guys going into the season.

Crowell because of a combination of things. One, the OL is better. Two, Hue has talked about committing to the run more. Hopefully he does. Three, it's a contract year. Four, he improved last year on his hits after first contact, which was my biggest criticism of him.

How quickly we forget the wonderful core of 2009 (after the Edwards trade)

Muhammed Massaquio
Brian Robiskie
Chansi Stuckey
Robert Royal

I'm going with the OL ... if they improve as much as they could we got a shot to have a dominating run game ...

Our best skill position player will need to be Crow .... thank god hes on a PROVE IT contract cause hes been a lazy, underachieving bum since high school ..

I applaud the FO for not signing him long term ... and after he blows up i hope they let him walk ... not a fan of guys who finally play well in their contract years witch is what he did last year ..

If the OL run blocks the way it should and Crow plays hard that will open up the passing game and make things a lot easier for the QB and reciever ...

My main concern is the OL's health ... we can't have injuries to it, except RT as I don't have real high expectations for that position ...

One thing for sure, lazy, underachieving bums who are undrafted make a lot of NFL rosters and become their team's feature back.

I was hoping (wishful thinking) that somebody would have the confidence to say one of our QBs ... most notably Kizer

Crow
Njoku
Louis, Higgins, or Payton (tough to pick which one at this point - whoever ends up #3 on depth chart, bc I see Coleman staying injured - yikes)

Yeah but it's not like he was a top recruit out of High School or anything... that got a scholarship from a major program...

Ya and then he got kicked out for basically being a punk ... then he took the absolute easiest route available and then he played poorly until his ... low and behold ... contract year ...

He has all the talent in the world ... seems to have been lacking in brains and then motivation til the big bucks were on the table ...

Thank god none of that happend ...

Are you really saying that a guy who was an undrafted FA coming out of college an not only made the team but ended up becoming the team's feature back is a lazy, underachieving bum?

I'm with you on here, and I've had this same discussion with Diam before, lol. Right when he didn't show up to voluntary workouts


Hard to call a guy that was an UDFA out of a small school (his own fault), now an NFL starter in his contract year, an underachiever.

It's hard to think that if that facebook or twitter post about killing cops never came out, he'd be discussed differently. Otherwise, we're judging and holding grudges about someone for things that happened when he was 18/19 years old at Univ of Georgia.

It's just a bit ridiculous. What does any of that have to do with "Underachieving" or being "lazy"

Exactly. Undrafted free agents don't make the rosters of teams if they are lazy, underachieving bums. And they sure as hell don't become the feature back if they possess those qualities.

And I think you are right on when you brought up the the picture Crow posted of the cop and how at least one person can't forgive him.

And the thing is, for those who hold that against him (which, is fine, if that's what they want to do), at least call it that, and say that's what you have against him.


Cause going after him for holding out of voluntary workouts (which, for a guy who plays RB in his contract year, UDFA, trying to make his money at a short-shelf life position while he can, seems par for the course.................) is petty to me.


It's better to just be honest and say what the issue is, because I just don't see how anyone can call Crow an underachiever or lazy. He might not be a great NFL RB or even a mediocre one. But he certainly had to fight for his spot on this team. He's been a somewhat feature player since he got here. Not as much his rookie year, where he still had like 148 attempts, but after that he's held off the competition (and stayed when Terrance West was traded)

Diam was critical of Crow way before the cop picture post came out. If you are going to focus on the opinion of others, at least get the facts straight.

J/C -

Just my 2 cents - but for me the cop picture thing was stupid rather than malicious. I don't hold grudges over people having a moment of stupidity especially when Crow handled the aftermath in the best way possible. I think he was sincere with how he handled himself.

I don't know about Crow's attitude at college and HS - but I do remember quite clearly a lack or professional attitude and work ethic the year he and West were sharing carries and JM was on the team. A quick search for a scouting report verifies his work ethic was questioned.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/20178...ing-report-more

I hope he's a fairy-tale story for the Browns - we need to find some gems like him as UDFA or late round 'steals'. As far as playing big in a contract year and then not signing him - think that's a bit premature and unfair. I believe Hue and this FO have shown an pretty good ability to gauge a players worth and value and they will have a closer ability to judge his character and motivation. First step - lets hope he has a break out year.

Who shines on offense? My post doesn't factor in linemen.

Crow, Duke and David Njoku. The run will setup the pass, the pass will setup the run - and the above players will be the most crucial in that.

All JMO of course.

Whoever it is has to step up right away.
There isn't one player on this offense right
That a DC has go "okay we got to shut down
This guy "etc etc
Defenses could care less how much damage
Crowell could inflict in 2016...his 5.8 vs a loaded box wasn't going to add up to enough points to beat a defense
Johnson has some great skills but hes not exactly a TD machine
Britt has never been a end zone threat
Njoku is my choice cause someone needs to control the middle of the field
But reality is he won't be impactful till late season as most NFL rookie TES struggle out the gate and haVing a QB competition will only hinder his progress

Not sure if u noticed or not Pete .. but i ain't shy .. I'll say what i feel and not worry about what others think .. my opinion of him being a lazy, underachieving bum has ZERO to do with his cop killing tweet ... ZERO ... I'd have cut his ass that day and let it be known ... we didn't .. i moved on. I think I've brought it up once since then .. in regards to his lack of good decision making ... thats it ... water under the bridge ...

Answer me this Pete .. why was he an undrafted fa? ... he has all the talent in the world ... when he decided to play in his first 2 or 3 years u could see all the NATURAL ABILITY in the world ... he was the #1 back in the country coming out of HS ... he was the freshman of the year in the SEC I believe .... he was ALSO A PUNK and got booted from an SEC SCHOOL .. thats not EASY TO DO ...

Then he takes the easy way out and transfers to a d-1a school so he can play right away against INFERIOR TALENT ...

His first two years here he was the definition of the word INCONSISTENT .. then in his contract year he turns it on ... to bad Hue decided to quit running the ball ... a decision Hue has said he regrets and it was a mistake ...

If u want to write that off as a young kid making mistakes (witch is true in some cases when the kid matures .... and maybe he has .. but based on the fact he was INCONSISTENT as could be his first two or three years here ... I DOUBT IT .. ) and him being an undrafted FA ... thats your perogative ...

There's a reason he went undrafted .. and it wasn't cause the talent wasn't there ... are u telling me he worked hard and thats why he made it .. i obviously don't agree .. my theory is no one wanted to waste a draft pick on a PUNK ...

Then theres the fact the FO didn't sign him long term .... i applaud that .... why do u think they didn't sign him long term? ...

Sorry Pete .. I disagree ...

Because he is a running back and was a restricted free agent.

Another BRILLIANT post ... i have no clue what that even means ... well i do ... it just makes NO SENSE ...

But thanks for playing .... ...

and Peter ... what Willie said was 100% true ... my opinion on Crow has been consistent since after his first year here .... I've never liked him ... i did enjoy watching him this year cause he does have talent .... but that doesn't change the last 5 or 6 years of history ...

Matter of fact .. if he wasn't AN UNDERACHIEVING BUM like I say he is ... he would have been drafted and drafted very high ... imagine if he stood at Georgia and continued on that path ... after 3 years of success in the SEC he would have been drafted VERY VERY HIGH ...

In case your wondering ... i still disagree with U ... *L* ...

Oh .. and what in my posting history tells u if this was about the cop killing tweet I would try and hide it .. since when have i not spoken my mind .... unless of course u think this is the first time i decided to hold back my true feelings .. *LOL* ...

U pretty much know where i stand on things at all times ... life's to short for agendas and games ...

I don't know why I bother, but smart front offices don't overpay to keep running backs (or sign them to long term deals) because they burn out quickly and are fairly easy to replace. We got Crowell on the cheap for one more year because he was restricted. I would be very surprised if we sign him for any significant amount of money.

You are holding his college choices against him when it it obvious he has changed. Repeating the same points over and over doesn't make them true.

He is totally ignoring how Crow not only made the team as an undrafted FA, but also how he ended up beating out Tate [who was a fairly pricey FA] and West [who the Browns moved up for in the draft.]

I'm sure he was able to accomplish that because his a lazy, underachieving bum.

He is basically the only person on here who thinks this way about Crowell. That alone tells you that he is out to lunch.

Did he? I thought Diam didn't post on here for a long time and only came back around that time last year? Maybe I'm wrong, but do you have some links for that claim?

You can look in the Dawgtalkers archives if you wish. I'm going off my own recollection and memory from his past comments...and Diam's own words in this post. His blasting of Crow in this very thread said a lot of things...but not one comment about disliking the photo until someone said he couldn't let that go.

Here's his two posts in THIS thread before someone brought up the photo:





I personally don't need to go back further than that.

LOL....I didn't think so.

Btw-----Will you answer this question: Do you think an undrafted FA who is "lazy," "underachieving," and a "bum" finds way to not only make the team, but become the starter and averages 4a .8 yards per carry?

Fair enough. I can't say I remember your opinion on Crow besides our argument about him a couple months ago when he didn't show up to voluntary workouts.

And, if you say your opinion about his play has nothing to do with the cop tweet, then i'll certainly take you at your word for it.


But this is where I get confused. 5 or 6 years of history? He was 19 when he was released from Georgia. In-between his freshman and sophmore year. It's just hard for me to go after someone that young and hold it against them years later. I just look at where I was as a freshman, where my friends were as freshman, and so on. People grow and improve as people.

He went to Alabama State, but how would we hold that choice as a matter of his character against him? Can't we just as easily make the argument that maybe he wants to play that next season. We don't know his family commitments, or whatever. We also don't know what advice he was getting from family members and so on. I just don't see that as reasonable to say that he should have sat out a year and transferred to a D-1A school or something.

Maybe he knew he had to get himself out of the spotlight. A chance to work on himself. If anything, that's a good thing.


So, no legal problems since his freshman year of college. He goes undrafted into the NFL. Has to get in based on talent, not what he did in college.


Then, the guy has played three years, improving every single season. This is what i love



lol, first two years inconsistent? Of course. His first year he was a rookie, lol. Fighting for playing time on an offense that was supposed to feature Ben Tate as the feature back.

Plenty of rookies are inconsistent.

Then his next year, there's a new offensive coordinator (who seemed to like throwing the ball much more than Shannahan). The defense was an absolute mess with garbage Jim O'Neil running the show, so we were always playing from behind, so even if they O-Coordinator who was focused on running the ball, we were going to struggle. It's not surprising for a 2nd year 22 year old RB to be inconsistent.


I mean, you're going after a guy as a lazy underachiever who was put in position to underachieve. And I just don't see any point where you can say that he's "Lazy". Because he went and played college at Alabama State? Was Carson Wentz lazy because he decided to play for NDSU?



I don't necessarily want to sign Crow to a long-term contract. But I just would never call him lazy or underachieving. Maybe inconsistent. But the whole team was inconsistent.

For an UDFA, he was a darn good investment. Much better than most draft picks we've made, that's for sure. In that sense, he overachieved for us