DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns' starting QB battle might be Cody Kessler vs. a rookie

Every year sounds like a broken record on the browns quaterback talk. It's definitely frustrating not having that talented franchise guy in place after numerous drafts and off seasons. Getting sick of these plug-ins ever year that give us little hope. I'm trying to be patient like i stated but how much longer of this crap. I really think thats why alot of us fans(me included) will give up the barn for a garrapolo, because he gives us the most hope in a franchise type guy weve been craving for way to long. Just needed to rant that.

I disagree 100% that we will draft first with Kessler at QB. But then as I have said I like Cody more than most. That's not to say I think he has a strong arm. I think Cody has what's needed between the ears ... and a little moxy .... and that to me counts for a lot. It won't overcome a lack of arm talent though, so he would need to improve if he's to ever be considered as an option as a starter....

But having watched the JG highlights - I went and looked for Cody highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wpqDhyB1To

And without doubt his passes are not zipping anywhere and showing any indication of a strong arm. . . . but I wonder if some of that is Cody wanting to be accurate more than wanting to let it rip. . . . It looks like cody is placing a lot of these throws.

At 1:48 - there is a throw with Cody on the run as he skips to his right. He throws the ball 20 yards downfield - but it travels further than that as it's a throw to the sidelines. Cody basically flicks his wrist to get the ball there. . . so I am wondering if that indicates there *might* be more arm strength there than we have seen ... based on the QB breakdown that someone shared the other day - Kessler was listed as 55 mph ball velocity which was the same as Trubisky and Watson (I think).....

Same thing at 2:33 - a 25 yard throw with a flick of the wrist. . . . followed at 2:27 with a throw that just looks ugly and weak .... so who knows?!

Just an alternative perspective. My first choice is still JG or Cousins.

Kessler is not a starting NFL Qb and never will be. Going into the year with him as your starter is another losing season.

Even Derek Anderson was more talented, at least Anderson didn't have a noodle arm. Our issue with Anderson was we were not patient. We had a lot of injuries after his breakout season, and simply gave up on him too soon. He was a piece of a puzzle here, and when his puzzle pieces got hurt(Edwards, Steinbach, and Mack) there was no way to put it back together that year.

Had we stayed the course with our Coach(who won 10 games the previous year) and our young Qb in Anderson and the rest of our roster, the Browns would have bounced back the following year, but our doofus ownership just doesn't have any patience...Jimmy is just as bad as Jr is if not worse.

I wonder how many HOFers and SB winners would have been missed if they had all been given up on after their first year? Especially if they had a QB rating of less than 93 as the threshold to get another chance.

JMHO, I remember Anderson as having "zero touch"...he was fastball thrower always...looked good 20 to 30 yards down field, BUT he missed easy throws, couldn't throw a screen pass to save his life....he's been a backup forever...GO Browns!!!

All I remember is thinking Terrelle Smith had REALLY good hands for a FB.

Dude was getting lasers heaved at him from 5 yards away.

Cleveland Browns have Terry Pluto wondering about Cody Kessler -- Terry Pluto


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Part of me wants to believe in Cody Kessler.

I'm talking about him becoming a decent NFL quarterback who can be an Alex Smith-type game manager. Or maybe a Brian Hoyer-style quarterback, at least the healthy version of the St. Ignatius product.

There are some things to like about Kessler.

1. He was thrown into a nearly impossible situation with the Cleveland Browns last season. He opened as the No. 3 quarterback, who doesn't receive a lot of work in practice. After injuries to Robert Griffin III and Josh McCown, Kessler was the starter in week 3.

2. In his first five starts, he completed 89 of 133 passes (67 percent), good for 4 TDs and an interception.

3. In three of those five starts, he threw for 223, 244 and 336 yards. They scored at least 20 points in three of those five starts. They managed 20 or more in four of the 11 other games.

4. I have concentrated on Kessler's first five starts because they came before his first concussion. He was never quite the same after that. He had a second concussion and other injuries.

5. Kessler played in nine games (eight starts), completing 66 percent of his passes (92.3 rating), 6 TDs vs. 2 interceptions. Not bad numbers on a horrible 1-15 team.

6. Add in Kessler's maturity, work ethic and passing accuracy (valued by the coaches) and it's understandable why he will probably be the starter when veteran's camp opens.

A HIDDEN STAT

Andrea Hangst inspired me to write about Kessler when I discovered her excellent story on the Browns quarterback. She wrote it for Dawgs By Nature, one of my favorite NFL sites.

Her theme was a question: Would an improved offensive line help Kessler. The obvious answer is ... Yes. But how much?

Hangst hit on one of my biggest issues with Browns quarterbacks -- they hang on to the ball too long. According to NFL.com, Browns quarterbacks caused at least some of their own problems by indecision in the pocket.

Here's a breakdown:

1. It's a blink of an eye. The fastest quarterback getting rid of the ball was Nick Foles (2.36 seconds). The slowest was Tyrod Taylor (3.12).

2. This chart rated 50 quarterbacks. The average time was 2.60. Brock Osweiler (2.61) was 26th out of 50. So that's OK.

3. I mentioned Alex Smith and Hoyer in connection with Kessler. I didn't look up their times until I had used their names. Here we go: Smith is No. 2 (2.37) and Hoyer is No. 13 (2.49).

4. Kessler has mentioned Drew Brees as one of his role models. The New Orleans quarterback was No. 4 (2.43).

5. McCown ranked No. 42 (2.80).

6. Griffin ranked No. 44 (2.84).

7. Kessler was No. 49 (2.89), only ahead of Taylor.

SO WHAT?

1. The Browns had three quarterbacks in the bottom eight. Is that a coincidence? I don't think so.

2. McCown and Griffin are notorious for hanging on to the ball too long. They want to give their receivers time to get open. Griffin also likes to run around and make plays with his legs.

3. But what about Kessler? I have checked several pre-draft scouting reports, none talked about hanging onto the ball too long. Arm strength was an issue. So was being only 6-foot-1. Small with an average arm at best seemed to be the consensus.

4. But Kessler simply kept the ball too long. It's part of the reason he suffered two concussions. He was knocked out of another game with an injury. So Kessler failed to finish three of eight starts. Durability is a major concern.

5. According to Profootballfocus.com, Kessler threw 47 percent of his passes "under pressure." That was the most in the NFL. Next were Andrew Luck and Jared Goff, both at 44 percent.

6. At times, it seemed the speed of the game overwhelmed Kessler. Some of that can change in his second year as he's becoming more accustomed to the fact that even the biggest defensive linemen can usually run faster than you originally think.

7. But I also believe Kessler and all the quarterbacks were hurt by the receivers. They didn't get open quickly. None of the QBs developed chemistry with any receiver/tight end, partly because there were so many QB injuries.

8. To be an effective quarterback with his size and limited arm strength, he has to get rid of the ball fast. Receivers have to run short, crisp patterns. The offense has to look precise. That rarely happened in 2016.

9. I wish the Browns had done more than replace receiver Terrelle Pryor with Kenny Britt. David Njoku could make an impact at tight end, but the first-rounder is a rookie. Big time, athletic receivers can help even a so-so quarterback look effective.

10. The coaching staff will have to use the running backs more often in the passing game. Duke Johnson and Isaiah Crowell combined for 93 catches in 2016. That's a lot. But I believe they can do even more.

BOTTOM LINE?

1. When it comes to Kessler, I have significant doubts. In minicamps, he had too many passes batted down at the line of scrimmage. He seldom completed deep balls. He was accurate on short throws.

2. He is an inexperienced quarterback who will be throwing to mostly inexperienced receivers. He should have more time, thanks to a revamped offensive line.

3. Kessler stays away from turnovers. He will know the offense well. He does have poise and leadership ability. It's possible Hue Jackson can turn him into a respectable quarterback. I just wish I saw more to be excited about in the minicamps.

4. That said, real football begins in late July when the players return and actually wear pads. For young quarterbacks, preseason games matter a lot because it's the first time they can really be tackled. So I'm open to seeing more of Kessler.

5. I know fans want to talk about the other quarterbacks. We will do that in the next few weeks. This is the dead zone for NFL news, so I concentrated on Kessler.

6. I'm higher on Osweiler than many in the media and fans, mostly because of his experience and his success in Denver.

7. I'm not as enamored with Kizer as some. Physically, he is an NFL quarterback. But he has so much to learn. He seldom took snaps under center or worked out of a huddle until joining the Browns.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/07/cleveland_browns_have_terry_pl.html

I really liked this article. brought up some good points.

I'm sticking with Brock starting week one. I used to want Cody to start week one. But now I'm thinking Brock is the best we have at the moment.

LOL............this article might set a record for the number of threads it has appeared in.

lol does it? hadn't seen it. and was looking for the Cody thread...

Browns QB battle: Rising DeShone Kizer can, should pass 'safer' Cody Kessler

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/cle...el1iu8hr1gclr91

The Browns have been deliberate during their latest offensive rebuild. It's time for them to let it rip and not hold back at QB.

That means giving rookie second-pick DeShone Kizer a real chance to start immediately as their hopeful future franchise passer.

There's no doubt Cleveland drafted Kizer because of his immense potential with his arm and athleticism, something he didn't fully reach while at Notre Dame under coach Brian Kelly. Talent-wise, even in his raw state, Kizer's versatile skill set is more appealing than what both Cody Kessler and Brock Osweiler can offer, now or later. The ability to quickly develop Kizer also is critical to tenure of coach Hue Jackson lasting beyond 2017.

MORE: Ranking the NFL's starting QBs

Osweiler was an afterthought in the battle right after his trade from Houston, given the move was primarily made to give the Browns a second-round draft pick and give the Texans a way out of an expensive mistake. But perhaps humbled from his crash and burn in Houston, Osweiler has been impressive in the offseason, showing the accurate arm once coveted by the Broncos. He also has been wise to lean on the fact that, at 27 to be, he has a big experience edge on the other two. That includes being familiar with a Super Bowl-winning locker room vibe from Denver.

But more respect from veterans and looking the part, as Osweiler does with his 6-7 frame, can take him only so far.

The Browns' scheme and supporting cast is built better for a mobile passer than it is for a big statue. Osweiler also has struggled with standing too long in the pocket and not getting the ball out quickly, which doesn't mesh with Jackson's QB requirements.

Osweiler is pretty much there to push the youngsters in presence only. He's more down with Kevin Hogan, who's in this competition in name only. This is Kessler vs. Kizer, and the second-year man from USC can officially start to worry about the trajectory of the competition.

Kessler has shown only limited improvement in arm strength, still his biggest weaknesses. He can handle dinking, dunking and checking down, and he can remain efficient with his shorter throws, the way former Notre Dame QB Brady Quinn did. But the Browns need to make use of youthful field-stretchers Corey Coleman and David Njoku, and Kessler is deficient in pushing the ball downfield. Further hurting Kessler vs. both the 6-4 Kizer and Osweiler is his lack of ideal size, something he can't change.

MORE: Best, worst of NFL decision-makers

That's why Kessler saw his hold on the first-team reps in OTAs and minicamp become more of a split with Kizer, with Kessler wilting. Kizer's football intelligence is doing him plenty of favors in picking up Jackson's offense quickly. He already has a better natural feel for the passing game, and every day in practice, he reportedly has gotten sharper with his rhythm and mechanics.

As the Browns are seeing Kessler and Kizer side-by-side, the rookie has made things even going into training camp. His upside already was undeniable in contrast to that of Kessler. While Osweiler is trying to re-grasp the basics, and while Kessler's throwing has hit a low ceiling, Kizer is showing a nice floor faster than expected.

Kizer is no stranger to the heat of a highly competitive preseason environment given his battles just to get on the field in South Bend. As the preseason pressure is dialed up, Kizer should respond well. Kelly not given him much of an endorsement likely also has accelerated Kizer's dedication to pleasing Jackson.

The Browns won't begin to get out of their rut by sticking with Kessler from the get-go. Throwing Kizer into the fire is developing into a much better plan.

He can and should be the man for Week 1 vs. Pittsburgh.

Vambo good read. makes a good case for starting Kizer. Didn't think that was the plan tho.

A lot will be determined by how much they have learned and absorbed since mini's and Ota's while working with House. Its kinda Browns QB camp lol

If Kizer puts in the work, he very well could take lead in the competition very quickly into camp but if he is slow, I expect Brock to come on strong.

Just hard for Cody to shine when he is being compared to two huge guys with fantastic arms. He pretty much has to be flawless just to get positive notice.

If Kessler is the starter then we have to run a WCO. Period. Forget down the field passing and go straight up WCO. Hue can do that. He has the background to run a WCO if that is how it plays out. Don't try to force Kessler into a system he just isn't capable of playing. If we are going to continue playing the offense we played last year then we need a QB that can play it. If we are going with Cody then we need to change the system to one that suits his ability. That means a WCO. Short to medium range accurate passing. Lots of dump offs to the backs. Etc.

Every week a new story picks one of our QBs to spotlight and build out as the new starter. Is this some sort of smoke and mirrors or are we so miserable at the position that we have no clue?

I think Kessler starts, period. But we will have to wait and see. Reminds me of the Romeo Crennel days and if a coin toss happens then I'm done with this coach. lol

Thanks for the article, but I wish reporters would be accurate w/their "facts," instead of just making dumb assumptions.

For example, the author states that Oswieler is a big statue and that he holds the ball too long. However, when reviewing his tapes, I noticed a guy who is a good runner. Also Pluto's article referenced how Osweiler was 26th out of 50 qbs in terms of getting rid of the ball last year while Cody was second to last.

Additionally, saying Kizer "could and should be the man" to open up the season is absurd at this point in time.

I really have no idea who should be our starter in week one. I think it's too early to tell.

I do not believe that any of the three are clearly better than the other two at this particular point in time. Similarly, I don't think any of the three should be ruled out as our starter right now.

To add to your point about "facts", he refers to Brady Quinn as an accurate shortrange passer. Comparing him to Kessler. Personally, I never saw that.

Here's what he said



IMO, Kessler, in the short game, was much more accurate than Brady Quinn. Kessler might not be the guy, but like I've said, slants, short to medium stuff across the middle, passes to the backs; he's very accurate.

Brady Quinn surprised me when he came here. He was not the guy I was expecting or the guy that came from Notre Dame. He didn't have the guts to rip it, but I didn't like the placement of the footballs he threw. Kessler, is certainly a solid step ahead in that regard

Good point.

Tuck nicknamed him "Wild Thing."

Interesting read. Two things jumped out at me:



Wasn't there just a post discussing the QBs who held the ball the longest? And wasn't CK the next-to-longest? That would not mesh with Jackson's QB requirements as well.



Not what was being discussed earlier in the off season. I seem to recall that the talk was the increase in arm strength was more than "limited."


I am not saying that Kizer should start. But I will say that if Kizer comes out of the preseason as the winner of the QB competition, then he is "ready." IMO, someone who is not ready cannot beat out two guys who have started in the NFL.

I will also say that if CK comes out as the starter, we are in for a long season. As Spirit said, we would have to run a WCO.

Oh, absolutely. I couldn't believe it. I mean, this guy was supposed to be the savior.

Diam was singing his praises like we found the next Jesus.


Then he comes out there, looking great, and then starts throwing the football. And the Brady Quinn I saw, throwing the ball to Jeff Smardjza, was gone. Instead it was short throws with receivers getting crushed and running backs diving to make catches.

Brady Quinn did not have an NFL Arm in any sense. Cody is far more accurate than Brady. IMO, Cody's more accurate than Colt McCoy was (who seemed to have trouble leading receivers). I'm just talking about accuracy though, not decision making or anything like that. And McCoy was more accurate than Quinn.

Brady Quinn was like a gunshy Charlie Frye, lol. Total disappointment.



I'm excited about the idea of a stronger arm QB who can stretch the field, hurl it in the bad weather, and so on. That's the most effective way to play in our stadium with our type of offense, and IMO team. I just hope he's not a Derek Anderson or Brandon Weeden type (both of which who had their own issues, different, but their own)). I can easily see those guys looking great at things like mini-camp, etc.

I'm just not sold on the Deshone Kizer hype train yet neither. Kizer was so inconsistent last year in college. We shall see when training camp starts heating up and Myles Garrett/Emmanuel Ogbah are coming at him. Even more so, when preseason starts coming and the guys aren't afraid to lay a lickin on "the red jersey"



I think our future QB probably isn't even on the roster right now. Somewhere in the draft, FA, or available via trade. Hope i'm wrong of course

Agree with you on all counts ... Other than Anderson and weeden. I think they both struggled with a similar issue. Great arm, but not qb smart or qb savvy.

See, if we leave it that broad, sure.

Except Brandon Weeden was a guy EASILY rattled by blitz pressure. He reminds me completely of a guy that should have played baseball (and would have if not for shoulder injury) vs DA who just made dumb decisions.


Weeden got at his best when he was in a rhythm, which pretty much makes a running game difficult. If he got to pass the ball every-time and there was no blitz pressure, he'd be at his best, lol. Clearly something you don't want to do in the NFL

But you start running the ball and he'd get out of his rhythm. Just throwing a football, he was a total natural, and the more he threw it, he'd get himself on a roll. That's why it worked well for him at OKState. Spread offense. One read. Hike, throw. Hike, throw. You add in the NFL pressure and a secondary in the NFL that is so much faster, and it becomes a lot harder.


DA was a tough dude. He had a power arm, but wasn't accurate. Weeden was accurate under perfect conditions, DA just wasn't that accurate. But put him with Winslow studding out and Braylon having a very solid year, and he looked pretty good. But, you could throw most anything at Winslow that year, and he could catch it. He knew how to work himself open. Braylon gave him the single coverage he needed with a solid offensive line that made folks account for Jamal. It was a great situation for DA to be in.

I don't think it matters what situation, Weeden would have struggled. You start putting pressure on him, and he starts throwing interceptions into double coverage and his accuracy goes out the window. Whether it's too long holding the ball or just not capable of making quick enough NFL reads or he's just too scared

Right now nobody has a clue. There has been no training camp or pre season as of yet. Reporters are trying to fill space. Since we really don't have a QB right now, the best thing to draw attention to their articles is talking about the QB's.

And in case you missed last year, yes, to that point we were miserable at QB. And so far, we've seen no evidence that has changed. That's why our opponents concentrate on stopping the run and try to force us to pass the ball. Because it's been working for years. That's what happens when you don't have a QB.

I agree with those more detailed takes on DA and BW. Very much so.

DA was maybe a little better than BW at reading a defense and getting to a 2nd progression .... But not much. I always felt that DA decided where he was chucking the rock presnap and come hell or high water that was where it went regardless of any adjustment by the D. In that sense I felt he was always doomed to struggle the more tape defenses got on him.

It's one reason I hope Cody improves the pop on his balls and his willingness to take a shot down field. I thought he showed he has a head that processes the game as an NFL qb. We'll see. It's all speculation at this point and the odds are against him ..... Kizer definitely has the physical assets you'd want to start with. Does he want it? Is he going to make being an NFL qb his #1 priority? Will is brain process NFL defenses fast enough when he gets his shot? .... Be great if Cody progresses and kizer is even better 😁

BRADY BRADY BRADY .... that was a good day ... then it wasn't so good .. *L* ..

It had to be the weights ... not sure what else it could have been .... he went from very accurate in college to not being able to hit the broad side of the barn ...

Man was he HORRIBLE ...

Oooops ...

Don't sweat it. I've been wrong a bunch. I thought T-Rich was the next Adrian Peterson. Bought his jersey as soon as we drafted him. I changed Johnny Manziel's name to "Johnny Jesus", that didn't work neither, lol. I was excited we drafted Justin Gilbert, I wanted him if we were going to trade down, whoops.

Heck, I figured Alex Mack was going to want to leave, so we had to guarantee that spot by drafting Cameron Erving, lol! Browns have made plenty of decisions I wanted them to make. PLENTY.

It's almost as if they listened to me on here or something...... Anyway, my track record is close to theirs


EDIT: Honestly, it's kind of weird. So many guys I wanted in the draft, we drafted. Like wanted beforehand. Was looking at the pick and hoping we'd pick them. From Joe Haden to Corey Coleman to Sean Jones to Johnny Football, Justin Gilbert.


I didn't expect Peppers at all. So he might be safe. Same with Njoku. I was excited when we got them, but didn't like beg the TV for them.

So yeah, i'm holding out hope for this year. Myles Garrett I'm lumping with Joe Haden. Hard to screw up, so we'll be safe

I agree about the weights. He overdid it tremendously, jacking himself up.
How many good QBs look like bodybuilders?
Humans aren't supposed to be that muscle-bound, especially QBs. Man, I had high hopes with Brady.

It was the new weight room ND put in a few years back.

Just a fun poke in the ribs

Who will be the Browns starting quarterback and how many games will they win? Hey, Mary Kay!

Updated on July 17, 2017 at 7:12 AM Posted on July 16, 2017 at 5:00 AM

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Hey, Mary Kay!

Hey, Mary Kay: Who's going to be the starting quarterback? What will be the Browns record this year? -- Tom Locke, Willowick, Ohio

Hey, Tom: Nothing like getting straight to the point! I think the starting quarterback for most of the season will be DeShone Kizer, and I think the Browns will win about six games if he plays well. That doesn't mean he'll start on opening day against the Steelers. That will only happen if he proves he gives the Browns the best chance to win. But they have to play him as much as possible to get him the experience he'll need to contend in 2018, or to determine if they need to draft a QB in '18.

If they think he needs a little time, they'll start either Brock Osweiler or Cody Kessler on Sept. 10. With Osweiler having more starting experience, and being the only QB on the roster who's won an NFL game, I'd say he has the early edge over Kessler in that scenario. But it will become clearer after the first few weeks of camp.

Early days but, if I had to predict the starter against Pittsburgh I would say Brock wins it.

That, however, is only 1/16. I agree with MKC that we will see Kizer a lot this season AND we need to. As we have 2 picks in the 1st we can move up to #2 (assuming the Jets have the #1 and will need a QB I doubt they trade it) and draft a QB or we revisit the Garoppolo/Cousins options as both will be a FAs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brock starts either. We'll find out in the coming weeks, especially after preseason. It's right around the corner!

I really hope they know before preseason.

I want whomevers starting to get all the reps and game time with the starters they can.

Also no coin flips or gut feelings please.

I think Kiser starts week 1.

I'm thinking they might wait a few games to start Kizer? I don't know for sure, obviously, but we'll find out in a few weeks time.

What's a few games?

I don't think you would ever say the plan is "start this guy for 3 weeks then make the switch"

I say there's 3 options.

- Start him week 1. Either to develop him on the field, or because he's the best option.
- Plan to not play him at all. Regardless of what happens.
- Give one of the other two the first half of the season, and depending on how they're doing. You make a decision at the Bye Week.

j/c:

The Browns are the second team on their list, it starts about the 1 minute mark.

Few games is a figure of speech. They'll play him whenever they feel he is ready, barring an injury.

I hope he does well.

Good article:

Cleveland Browns have no need to rush DeShone Kizer, Terry's Talkin' -- Terry Pluto

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...art_river_index

Because they want it and they want it NOW. *Throwing themselves on the ground and throwing a temper tantrum*

I don't quite get this. Pluto used the word "take" and not "start." To me, that means why did they draft him.

I have no problems w/the Browns taking Kizer in the draft. Do you?