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I like Crow, but I don't think that is going to happen. The fact that he just hire Rosenhaus tells me that he is going after all he can get.
In fact, he might be upset the Browns didn't work out a deal w/him this year, like they did w/other players such as Kirksey and Bitonio.
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U sign agents for a reason ... he signed with an agent that gets every last penny he can in what ever manner he can ... crow will not be giving any hometown discounts or leaving a penny on the table ...
Thats not a slam on crow ... just stating the facts of the situation ... I agree. It's nothing personal, it's just business. Our FO has done a good job of putting a value on players. If we decide to try and sign him, I am confident we will make a solid, fair offer. We have also shown we aren't going to monkey around and be used to help drive up the price. Players and agents are also aware that if they walk away from a good offer, it might not be there when they come back.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Our FO has done a good job of putting a value on players.
That is strictly an opinion coming from a person who praises every move the team makes. I think they've done some good things and some bad things, but that isn't a real popular philosophy w/many of you.
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and Collins...
I think RB is the easiest position to fill from the draft...you can even get good ones from FA.
Then why has it taken so long for us to find one. Lousy drafting no O with consistency, Passing game not a threat.
Talent wise year in year out so many good college RBs now and most can catch.
If we are going to have to pay a bank roll to Crowell...why not spend it on Le'Veon Bell.
That is my thinking or draft a stud.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Our FO has done a good job of putting a value on players.
That is strictly an opinion coming from a person who praises every move the team makes. I think they've done some good things and some bad things, but that isn't a real popular philosophy w/many of you. I do think they have done a good job at placing value on players...now sealing the deal (see Schwartz, Mitchell) with that value has shown to be a problem.
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Kinda wish folks would stop harping on the FO for the Pryor non-signing. They tabled the best offer he got and he left for a quarter of the money he could have had. I don't see what they did wrong.
As for the Crowell contract, I'm confident they will offer him a solid deal. They will look at his performance, and evaluate him, and come up with a figure. I don't think they will low-ball him, nor do I think they will break the bank. I see this as a Pryor scenario again.
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I think RB is the easiest position to fill from the draft...you can even get good ones from FA.
Then why has it taken so long for us to find one. Lousy drafting no O with consistency, Passing game not a threat. If you look at the Browns drafting, from 2000, and on, they really haven't spent a lot of investments on the RB position. Now I'm saying that with the caveat that I feel there's a real drop of in the possibility of finding productive players after the pick 112 ish range. ( IN 1986 with a 28 team league and no supplemental picks, #112 would be the last pick of the then 4th rd, and top of the 5th following. some 4th rders from back then played well, but there's still a drop off after 112, there just is. If you look at how the Browns have drafted, with an eye on who they got, and where, around pick 105-115ish overall, then I think they've gotten some decent/average guys, but they've also largely focused on defense with their top pics, and made offensive skilled positions like Rb wait their turn to get an investment. But It doesn't matter, because Crowell and Duke, whom would be, UdFa, and 3rd rd pick , IIRC. are pretty good backs. But Actually, on the Thread title. Isiah Crowell signs with Rosenhaus? ---- It really shouldn't matter if he DOES sign with Rosenhaus, He's still a Brown, it's still the Browns, He's signed, they need to keep him a while. ( I forgot about Richardson: Richardson, Green, Hardesty, ... Prentice James Jackson, Duke Johnson, Other Rb's taken in the top 112? I guess they haven't totally ignored it, just seems like they have.) I guess West, but look at the UDFA's types Hillis, Cribbs, Crowell, Ben Gay( whom was pretty good) , Jamel White, Had almost better luck with the UDFA's Boy the Browns are loopy.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Kinda wish folks would stop harping on the FO for the Pryor non-signing. They tabled the best offer he got and he left for a quarter of the money he could have had. I don't see what they did wrong.
As for the Crowell contract, I'm confident they will offer him a solid deal. They will look at his performance, and evaluate him, and come up with a figure. I don't think they will low-ball him, nor do I think they will break the bank. I see this as a Pryor scenario again. I think the fact that we traded up for Richardson (top 5), traded up a lot for Hardesty, drafted Prentice and James Jackson "early" ... spent some mid rounders on Suggs, Duke, Harrison ... and I'm probably forgetting some .. that is "spending" on the position to me. Maybe not in a dollars sense because we never broke the bank .. but we've spent plenty of capital on RBs
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Personally, I like Crow, and would love to see him signed for at least 3 years, but I don't think about next year now. He has to produce this year, and if he does, the team will benefit. IMO, if he has a huge year, and decides to walk for more money, the team will probably be in a better position as far as wins and losses. If that is the case, signing a good FA RB should not be a problem. Winning would change a lot of things as far as acquiring talent, but, as we all know, we haven't won anything in years.
Time will tell
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I like Crow, but I don't think that is going to happen. The fact that he just hire Rosenhaus tells me that he is going after all he can get.
In fact, he might be upset the Browns didn't work out a deal w/him this year, like they did w/other players such as Kirksey and Bitonio. Certainly could be the case. But who knows, if we surprise this season, and Crow has a good year, and he's having a good time, he might want to stay here (and we might be the best offer, as, who needs a 25 year old RB entering his prime more than us?) EDIT: Point being, people have short memories sometimes. And feelings can change. Sometimes the difference between re-signing a guy and having him walk is merely timing
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 07/24/17 07:44 PM.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Our FO has done a good job of putting a value on players.
That is strictly an opinion coming from a person who praises every move the team makes. I think they've done some good things and some bad things, but that isn't a real popular philosophy w/many of you. A solid position in my opinion. Who has gone off and signed for more money of the guys we tried to keep? I am not talking about everything the FO has done. I was very specific when I said they have done a good job of pegging the value of players. I do think letting Taylor Gabriel go in favor of Hawkins was a mistake, but if I had to guess, I would think your beloved head coach had more to do with that since he worked with him in Cincy. But no doubt, that is just my opinion since I wasn't there.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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are we really upset that crow is trying to maximize his salary?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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are we really upset that crow is trying to maximize his salary?
I'm not. I also don't blame agents for being advocates for their clients. Both Crow and Rosenhaus want to make as much money as possible. It's the American way. God Bless America. The land of the free.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Well, I doubt he'll play for free...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Well, I doubt he'll play for free... Not sure what that is supposed to mean....explain??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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He was joking, peen.
You are taking this way too seriously.
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This means very little because we can transistion him keep his salary under 7 million then tell rosenhaus to go pound rocks.
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Your correct that the agent works for the player ... i get that ...
Agents also have reputations .. the players know what there getting when they hire an agent ... Drew is not the guy U hire and tell him to get the most money from my current team ... he's the guy u fire when u want that done .... *L*
Drew is the Maco shark of agents ... he gets every penny he can and then gets someone else's To put in your pocket ...
Your setting yourself up for dissapointment if you think Crow hiring Drew is going to end well for the analytics based FO we have .... they've proven they'll throw analytics out the window when it comes to certain positions ... and thats a good thing ..... but I'd be STUNNED if they don't stick pretty close to what the analytics say when it comes to RB's ...
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What positions did we "throw analytics out the window"?
I'm ganna go out on a limb and assume you mean OL?
Just because we pay people money doesn't mean we didn't use analytics to determine a value. Especially when your OL sucks. And the draft has no good OL. It raises their value considerably.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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What positions did we "throw analytics out the window"?
I'm ganna go out on a limb and assume you mean OL?
Just because we pay people money doesn't mean we didn't use analytics to determine a value. Especially when your OL sucks. And the draft has no good OL. It raises their value considerably. Clearly on the OL ... Collins also ... and safety ... we didn't get none but it wasn't for lack of throwing more money at them than everyone else ... and I APPLAUD it in our situation ... but to say any of the above fits some analytics model ... thats just not being honest with yourself ...
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So we're never allowed to sign FAs?
Or trade mid round picks for proven players? And then resign them?
What?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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He was joking, peen.
You are taking this way too seriously. I didn't catch the joke last night. I wasn't mad when I typed that, I just didn't understand what he was talking about....missing his play off my earlier comment about the land of the free. All's good 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Can't blame him.. This will probably be his last contract deal. Make the most out of it. I doubt he gets a contract from the Browns, which I will hate, but do what you gotta do.
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j/c...want to make a clarification on my opinion.
I know I said that it is an easy position to fill with quality.
I wish to make it perfectly clear though our best option would be to give Crowell a very fair offer. Which in most cases I think our FO has done in the past.
As Diam stated Rosenhaus has a reputation of not settling on a fair offer but will always ask for more.
If that is the case we do have other options which I opined earlier on.
If Crowell asks for top RB FA money...as stated we might as well put a big offer for Le'Veon Bell.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joe Haden signed a long term contract in Cleveland.
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Joe Haden signed a long term contract in Cleveland. That's a good point.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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So we're never allowed to sign FAs?
Or trade mid round picks for proven players? And then resign them?
What? You guys can really argue like children sometimes. Granted I've seen a lot worse but Do you not see how immature it is to say obviously extreme arguments. Reminds me of my 14 year old step brother argu9ng with his mother. Now that the sticks out of my butt I think it's very obvious he's saying that while it's great we signed who we did we definitely paid above market for all of them this off-season. But considering how stacked the RB market usually is and how good the draft looks it's not clear whether the smart move is to even pay crow market value much less over market.
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Rosenhaus is a good solid agent who has been around and knows all the GMs in the league, and they know him.
I think with him all can tosss out the BS numbers and get down to real numbers much sooner.
It's not he is billing at $300 per hour. His fee is based on the contract value. He doesn't want to waste a bunch of time throwing around unrealistic numbers. The sooner the deal get's done the better for all involved.
How many flights to Cleveland does the guy want to make on his own dime? The team isn't paying for him to show up. Sure, some can get done over the phone, but face to face meetings still happen.
Last edited by Ballpeen; 07/25/17 08:29 PM.
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j/c: Crowell remains calm in final year of contractAP Published 5:27 p.m. ET Aug. 12, 2017 CONNECTTWEETLINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORE BEREA, Ohio (AP) — Patience is a virtue that Isaiah Crowell is familiar with, having gone undrafted out of Alabama State three years ago. The powerful running back is relying on it again as he enters his final season under contract with the Browns. "I feel like God controls everything, so I'm just trying to be patient," Crowell said Saturday at training camp. "I know my time is coming. I am just being patient, going to stay working and keep working hard, and trying to be the best I can be." Many positions — including starting quarterback — remain in flux for Cleveland, but there is no uncertainty in the backfield. Crowell is entrenched atop the depth chart after rushing for a career-high 952 yards and seven touchdowns last season. The 5-foot-11, 225-pounder also made a personal-best 40 receptions and gained 1,271 yards from scrimmage during the Browns' franchise-worst 1-15 campaign. "Crow is a guy who isn't scared to run through the smoke and just hit the hole hard," Cleveland center J.C. Tretter said. "If you give him a little crevice of space, he's going to take advantage of it. Offensive linemen love blocking for a guy like that." Crowell signed a one-year, $2.75 million tender on Feb. 28, believing it would expedite negotiations on a long-term pact. When they didn't materialize, the 24 year old hired noted agent Drew Rosenhaus to conduct future talks. Whether Crowell hits the market as an unrestricted free agent or chooses the Browns, he is in line for a significant pay raise. He earned $1.54 million over his first three NFL seasons — and repaid the franchise by scoring 20 touchdowns and gaining 2,265 yards on the ground. "Each year, I've had to prove myself how good of a player I am, but I'm used to it," said Crowell, who has never missed a game as a professional. "I feel like it's a constant battle, but it's not a big deal. I know what type of player I am, what caliber of player I am." The soft-spoken Georgia native added that he believes he ranks among the league's elite running backs. Crowell mentioned himself, Atlanta's Devonta Freeman, Pittsburgh's Le'Veon Bell, and Arizona's David Johnson as the cream of the crop. Freeman made headlines earlier in the week by signing a five-year, $41.3 million contract to stay with the Falcons, including $22 million in guaranteed money. "Yeah, you do go and think about it," Crowell said. "I feel like he changed the (pay scale) for all the running backs that are out here right now that deserve to get paid. I feel like it's a great deal for him." Freeman, Bell and Johnson all rushed for more than 1,000 yards in 2016, and each has been named to a Pro Bowl. Crowell has yet to accomplish either feat, nor has he helped Cleveland finish with a winning record. He plans on changing both this fall. "I put myself up there at the top with them because I feel like I can get out there and get the job done in any way," Crowell said. "All I can do is just work hard and really try to help my team get some wins." NOTES QB Brock Osweiler, who started Cleveland's preseason opener Thursday against New Orleans, worked with the first-team offense. Cody Kessler played with the backups, while rookie DeShone Kizer took the third reps, but was on the field with many starters. "It's too early to name a quarterback," coach Hue Jackson said testily. "The only difference today is we're back in training camp mode." . DE Nate Orchard spent his first two NFL seasons at LB before being moved by new defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. "Hands down, he's the best human being I've ever been around and the most interesting man," Orchard said. "Everyone gravitates toward him. It's just like having another pops around, but in a different way." https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf...ract/104532798/
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Okay, so he's looking for top 4 money (like $8 mil a year). Is he worth that much?
Le’Veon Bell
Steelers
$12,120,000
Devonta Freeman
Falcons
$8,250,000
LeSean McCoy
Bills
$8,010,000
Doug Martin
Buccaneers
$7,150,000
Leonard Fournette
Jaguars
$6,786,894
Lamar Miller
Texans
$6,500,000
Chris Ivory
Jaguars
$6,400,000
DeMarco Murray
Titans
$6,375,000
Ezekiel Elliott
Cowboys
$6,239,085
Giovani Bernard
Bengals
$5,166,667
Latavius Murray
Vikings
$5,000,000
C.J. Anderson
Broncos
$4,500,000
Anyone have opinions?
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Based on those contracts, he should be making around 7 million per year. whether or not he'll get that (from us) remains to be seen
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Okay, so he's looking for top 4 money (like $8 mil a year). Is he worth that much?
Le’Veon Bell
Steelers
$12,120,000
Devonta Freeman
Falcons
$8,250,000
LeSean McCoy
Bills
$8,010,000
Doug Martin
Buccaneers
$7,150,000
Leonard Fournette
Jaguars
$6,786,894
Lamar Miller
Texans
$6,500,000
Chris Ivory
Jaguars
$6,400,000
DeMarco Murray
Titans
$6,375,000
Ezekiel Elliott
Cowboys
$6,239,085
Giovani Bernard
Bengals
$5,166,667
Latavius Murray
Vikings
$5,000,000
C.J. Anderson
Broncos
$4,500,000
Anyone have opinions? Let's see what numbers he puts up this year. If he goes for 1,500 nad 10+ TD. I would pay him the money. If he does not I would not pay him.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
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Okay, so he's looking for top 4 money (like $8 mil a year). Is he worth that much?
Le’Veon Bell
Steelers
$12,120,000
Devonta Freeman
Falcons
$8,250,000
LeSean McCoy
Bills
$8,010,000
Doug Martin
Buccaneers
$7,150,000
Leonard Fournette
Jaguars
$6,786,894
Lamar Miller
Texans
$6,500,000
Chris Ivory
Jaguars
$6,400,000
DeMarco Murray
Titans
$6,375,000
Ezekiel Elliott
Cowboys
$6,239,085
Giovani Bernard
Bengals
$5,166,667
Latavius Murray
Vikings
$5,000,000
C.J. Anderson
Broncos
$4,500,000
Anyone have opinions? No, I don't think he is worth top 4 money. I'm all for re-signing him if the money is right, but there is no indications, at least to me, that he is worth that money. Chris Ivory aside, and the rookies on the pay scale, I"m not sure Crowell has done anything, up to this point, to be paid in this group. But hey, prove me wrong.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Is he related to Terrel Pryor somewhere in his family tree? ... Top 4 .. PLEASE .. I'm done with this for now .. gonna try and enjoy the season instead of argue about (just one more time .. *L* ..) .. the LAZY, UNDERACHIEVING BUM!!! I'm gonna miss that between now and January ... Good luck Crow .. TEAR IT UP ...
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I think we have to be cautious when comparing contracts. The numbers keep going up, no matter what the position. That is true in all three of the big sports and maybe others, as well.
I think it is a mistake to say he shouldn't be paid like a top 4 back by saying he isn't a top 4 back. Next year, there will be other backs who are not top 4 backs that get larger contracts. That is true every year.
With that said, I don't what his market value is. I do think that continuing to lose some of our better weapons is not a good thing.
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Of course he's not worth top 4 salary. But he's better than Diam thinks he is *lol* and not lazy. I like Cro, his contract situation will be resolved one way or the other, during the season or after. It's pointless to speculate right now. Let's hope he has a season that commands top 4 
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I think we have to be cautious when comparing contracts. The numbers keep going up, no matter what the position. That is true in all three of the big sports and maybe others, as well.
I think it is a mistake to say he shouldn't be paid like a top 4 back by saying he isn't a top 4 back. Next year, there will be other backs who are not top 4 backs that get larger contracts. That is true every year.
With that said, I don't what his market value is. I do think that continuing to lose some of our better weapons is not a good thing. I'm having trouble figuring out what I would pay him as well. I wouldn't have a huge problem with paying him if he doesn't have a ton of guaranteed money, but on the other hand, RB's still seem disposable and I'm not hugely upset if he is gone and we run with Dayes, Duke and a RB we can get in the 3rd round next draft. That's kind of why I was asking for other opinions, because I'm looking to see if someone brings up something to help me make up my mind.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
I've never questioned his ability ... I've questioned his DESIRE ...
Huge difference bro .. HUGE ..
I am hoping to snag him top of rnd 3 in my fantasy drafts ... he could have a HUGE YEAR this year ...
I've said that all along ... once he signs his long term deal ... we'll see what he does then ..
NOW LEAVE ME OUT OF THIS so i can get on with enjoying the season ... *LOL* ...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Yeah.....it's a tough call.
Good post.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Isaiah Crowell Signs with
Rosenhaus
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