DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns' starting QB battle might be Cody Kessler vs. a rookie

Interesting take u and peen have ... just want to make sure i understand this ...

Hues goal is to trade BO ( i call him that cause its his initials and is very appropriate ... in case u wondering peen) ... Hues going to achieve that goal by not playing him with the ones because hes going to LOOK to GOOD and beat out the rook ....

Any chance maybe u two didn't think that one all the way through ... ...

Cheech and Chong just got excited about watching Kessler.

j/c

The Browns sent both Kessler and Kizer to work with Tom House in the time between minis and TC. Oswieler went home to Idaho where he worked with his HS coach throwing to HS receivers and fellow ASU alum Jack Plummer. He did this on his own dime. Now he has way more dimes than the other 2, but my point is the Browns invested into the 2 Ks and left Brock to his own devices. Couple that with the Ks are splitting time with the 1s and BO has been working exclusively with the 2s, and I think it's clear that BO will have to blow the competition out of the water to win.

Osweiler is on the team because we got a second round pick to take on his salary. He is still around because cutting a player who is going to make $16 million either way is a tough pill to swallow. I don't think he makes the team.

Trading Brock may be Peen's take, I'm not sold on that part of it. (Though that may ultimately be the case.) My take is more about relegating Brock to the twos and giving Kizer the split reps with the ones with the intent on starting Kizer day one.

If it were a true competition, Brock would be getting reps with the ones. It's not about Hue not wanting Brock to beat out Kizer, I think it's more about getting Kizer ready to play. There are only so may reps to go around. If it were me, I would start putting Brock with the ones, possibly alternating time there with Kessler. My guess is that Hue is keeping Kessler with the ones primarily because he has more time in the system, and secondarily because he's an FO draft pick.

I know you think Brock sucks, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that Brock is doing as well as anyone in camp, and maybe even better than Kessler, certainly better than Kizer. Though it is difficult to know for sure given the limited coverage and the fact that he has been playing exclusively against the #2 D.

As always, JMHO.

I honestly believe that from everything I've read and heard, Brock may be our best option to start the season. He does have the most experience and has played as well as any of our other 2 QB's in camp. I like Cody and I think DK has the potential to be very good but right now Brock may be our best bet. I don't want to see DK be rushed.

What good is experience if you are horrible?

Also, we are only getting small snippets of what is actually going on. The team basically doesn't reveal anything of significance as it relates to position battles and the press is only seeing the players practice. Neither of those things really mean much.

I'm honestly divided about whether to start Kizer or not. However, I'm leaning toward starting him and getting him experience. It will really depend on how he shows in preseason.

I realize there is a lot of tenderness from all the wounds we've taken as fans by rushing QBs out there too soon, however, every one of those teams were abysmal, suffering from either awful O-lines, terrible defenses, crappy running backs, dismal coaching, or any combination of any and all of the above.

I tend to be old-school in my thinking in that it's best to let a QB sit and learn. However, the NFL has changed, and I do believe the situation is much, much better from a talent perspective. We have a solid O-line (at least on paper), our running game is shaping up to be a legitimate threat, our D is potentially effective, and our coaching staff seems to be on the right track.

I find myself wondering what good it does to have him sit a year only to start as a virtual rookie next year when we're supposed to start winning. I look at the advantage starting year one has given QBs like Dak, Wentz, Carr and Bridgwater and think Kizer, if he shows well and continues to progress in the preseason, would benefit from a season of starts, behind a decent O-line and with a good defense and running game, under a coach who could manage his play calling in a way that allows him to succeed.

I don't necessarily want Kizer rushed in there, but I do see many advantages to starting him if he shows solid growth over the next month. If he doesn't, I want the guy out there that gives us the best chance to win, whether it's Kessler or Brock. I'm just not certain Brock is getting the opportunities to show his growth under the best conditions at this point in time. It seems though, that no matter what happens, we should see how he stacks up because in the least, he could very well be our best option as the #2.

I am not being nearly as harsh on Kessler as guys like Diam and cfrs are being on Osweiler. Yet, you say nothing to them.

Start Kizer. If he is terrible (which is entirely possible), we are in position to draft one of the big guys next year (Allen, Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, etc.). If he is average then maybe he can build on it and become good. If he is good, we have a QB.

I don't believe Kessler or Osweiler have those possible outcomes. Mostly just the first one.

We didn't draft Osweiler and he hasn't played for us. People haven't had time to build up the emotional attachment.

I don't disagree with this thinking, though if he is underdeveloped, it may be best to sit him at least part of the year. Neither Kessler or Brock are likely the long terms answers. Of the three Kizer has the most potential. But it doesn't do Kizer any good to get thrown into the fire if he can't handle the speed of the game, or process information in under two seconds. He may need time for that. In that case, we'd likely want one of the other two starting... at least the first several games or so. At this point, we just don't know enough to be able to intelligently make a determination and it doesn't help that Brock isn't getting time with the ones.

We don't have the luxury of time. The 2018 QB class is very good. We need to figure out if we have a QB now.

That's fine, but I don't think I am the one being "unfair."

I don't care who starts. I simply want them to all receive a legitimate chance to "earn" the position and for the fans to not use Hue's qb choice [if it isn't the guy they favor] as one of the reasons to fire him.

I think I am being extremely "fair."

12 games -vs-16? Or even 8 or 10? I'm not sure it makes that much difference. He'll either suck or show promise. It's probably all moot though. As Peen alluded to, the decision may have already been made.

I think the decision was made the moment we drafted Kizer. Kessler is a great backup and Osweiler is not good.

You don't know that. We haven't seen enough of him to know. Perhaps you can say Osweiler wasn't good but his technique has been tweaked, he's been coached, and he'd been working on his fundamentals. At this point, we just don't know. If he sucks, at this point he should be given the chance to prove it.

I agree with you to an extent. I guess my question to you would be... Do you believe that the QB who gives the Browns the best chance to win should start?

Because to me that's the only question that matters.

Now I'm not saying that the answer to that question will be Kizer. I have no idea which name will describe that QB out of the three. But what I will say is I'm not willing to rule any of those three names out. To me, if Kizer proves to be the best QB on the roster and the coaching staff does feel he gives us the best chance to win, there's no reason he shouldn't start.

After a 1-15 season last year, I don't think we can just rule out anyone that's in competition for a starting spot just because they're a rookie.

I'm not pimping any of our QB's because I'm not consumed by players. I'm consumed with putting the best 53 players we have on our roster on the field so our team can win. If at the QB position that player happens to be Kizer, put the kid on the field.

How is this the only question that matters? Especially in a year where it's unlikely we'll win enough games to matter. Here's another question that matters: Does Kizer have what it takes whether he gives us the best chance to win or not?

I know he was one of the worst QBs I've ever seen last year. How many times does that guy become good? Serviceable?

If Brandon Weeden came to camp and said he tweaked his technique, worked on his fundamentals, and was coached, would we give him a chance? No. He's terrible.

I do feel that we should start the QB who gives us the best chance to win. If the coaching staff feels DK is ready we should start him. However, if there is the slightest bit of doubt, we shouldn't. What I see is that we all have our many opinions on this subject. What that means to me is that we still have a very unsettled QB situation. It may take a while to resolve it.

You've clearly made up your mind. That doesn't necessarily mean you're right. I'd say you have a 50/50 shot.

I don't read their posts that closely. Plus, I still don't really think of Brock as a Brown yet. Maybe it'll sink in after preseason week 1 (if he's still here).

I think Hue can lose double digit games the next 2 years and as long as there isn't any dysfunction in the organization, he stays. And that's the way it should be.

If we are talking about people that we've been too hard on, I think Haslam is one of those guys. While I believe in continuity and Haslam appears to have an itchy trigger finger, I'm starting to come around to the line of thinking that Haslam knew the people he had hired just weren't going to work i.e., he hired the wrong people. He feels like he has a good team in place now. I think they get an extended leash.

Think about the people that Haslam has let go. All were a part of or started some type of dysfunction -

Banner - Couldn't get along with his hand-picked GM.
Chudzinski - In over his head as a top guy; lost the team.
Pettine / Farmer - Couldn't get along; embarrassed the organization.

None of that - I mean none of that - is going on as far as we know. These guys appear to be "organizationally correct" as Haslam likes to say. You give a well functioning team time, and they will figure it out.

You start over again, and even vets feel like they are rookies getting to know new coaches, new systems, new verbage, new culture. That's not taking 1 step back. That's taking 10 steps back.

cbs sports
Why DeShone Kizer Has The Edge To Win Browns Starting Quarterback Job
July 31, 2017 9:53 AM By Daryl Ruiter


BEREA (92.3 The Fan) – When it comes to the big picture the Browns are handling second-round pick DeShone Kizer with kid gloves.

No one within the organization – publicly or privately – is willing to say they’ve solved the long lost QB conundrum with the 52nd pick in the draft, nor should they be.
On the field, head coach Hue Jackson has taken the gloves off and is giving the kid a crash course in NFL football which is one of a few reasons why it stands to reason that he would start Sept. 10 against the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Here’s 5 other reasons why Kizer might have the inside track to be the Browns’ starter Week 1:

– This offseason the Browns broke the bank to repair their decimated offensive line from a year ago that was ravaged by injuries by investing over $127 million – $65 million in guaranteed money – by extending left guard Joel Bitonio and adding center JC Tretter and right guard Kevin Zeitler in free agency. On paper, it stands to reason the protection up front should be vastly improved to help keep the rookie QB on his feet.

– Jackson plans to run the ball in 2017. He wanted to last season but circumstances – injuries and the scoreboard – dissuaded him from using Isaiah Crowell and Duke Johnson more, a mistake he pledges not to repeat again. Crowell averaged 4.8 per carry while Johnson averaged 4.9 per tote last year and with a bolstered line, Jackson should have the confidence to hand off often on Sundays. A strong running game is a quarterback’s best friend (along with protection from the line). It’s also a nice crutch to lean on with a young QB.

– Jackson and Kizer are practically glued at the hip during practice. Not many head coaches are as hands-on with players as Jackson is, but Kizer is Jackson’s project. When Kizer isn’t getting reps he’s often next to Jackson and when he is taking snaps, Jackson steps in often to coach Kizer up between plays.

– While the practice completion percentages won’t support it, Kizer already looks to be a better player than Cody Kessler in the early stage of training camp. Kessler has the advantage when it comes to the playbook and Jackson’s system but Kizer is bigger, stronger and the ball explodes out of his hand.

Last year Kessler – a third-rounder who was the fifth player in a 14-member class taken – wasn’t supposed to see the field as a rookie. He ended up starting by week 3 following injuries to veterans Robert Griffin III and Josh McCown. While Kessler’s arm looks stronger thanks to offseason workouts and training, it’s not better than Kizer’s.

– Brock Osweiler, acquired in March from Houston along with that 2018 second-round pick for eating his $16 million salary, isn’t in the team’s long-term plans so why would they waste game reps on him this year? They won’t if they don’t have to. And if practice reps are any indication, he’ll be the backup or not even here. Osweiler continues to spend the bulk of his time with the second-team offense while Kizer and Kessler work with the starters.

The reality is that none of these quarterbacks have flashed enough early to pull away as the unquestioned starter so ‘the best chance to win’ measurable doesn’t really apply at this point, so why not start Kizer from day 1 and see what he has?

I mis understood your take ... i thought u agreed with Peens entire take ... Ooooops ... my bad, I'm sorry ...

I do think BO stinks ... hes proven it over the last year and a half ... i also know he can "win" the job ... I'm not an idiot ... I think he sucks but i have NO CLUE whats going on at camp .. NONE ...

IF he wins the job .. it will tell me that CK didn't make the strides he needed too, not that BO all of a sudden morphed into a legite NFL starter ... IF BO does win the job ... you'll see ... unfortunately for us, we'll all see .... is there a thumbs down emoji ... *L* ...

The two things about Kizer that stick out to me so far ....

- when he didn't interrupt CK's question/answer session ... none of the players at ND dislike Kizer but none of them liked him either ... he wasn't a leader ... he was much closer to an outcast ... this tells me maybe he is smart enough to know he needs to act different to gain the respect of his teammates ...

- the completion % ... i really wish we could see a video of all his throws ... would love to see his footwork and what types of throws he's missing ....

CAL ... the mechanical changes that Hue made to Kizer and BO will take TIME to be implemented into there arsenals ... its MUSCLE MEMORY and REPS until it becomes your new muscle memory .... u act like just because Hue worked with these guys all they have to do is flip a switch and all the problems are solved ... it doesn't work that way .... its very hard actually ...

I agree. As I stated in the prediction thread, this is a year to evaluate Kizer.

It was mentioned on the 'Takes by the Lake' podcast with Dan Labbe that Kessler missed a wide open wr on an under thrown deep ball. Kessler doesn't bring a lot to the table as far as a starting QB goes.

I believe Kessler will make a fine backup QB.

We'll see how it shakes out.

I don't know how things work out, and I don't really care who wins. I want the best guy, who can win games.

That said .... saying that one guy is eliminated because of one pass is kind of ridiculous. I am sure that any of the QBs have passes that "could" eliminate them, if all it takes is one.

I'd say I have more than a 50/50 shot of being right.. We are not talking about a player (Osweiler) who has ever been good. On top of that, the team he is on is not good.

I don't agree with that. This year I do, but next year? No way I am good with that. If it goes double digit, the number better be 10.

Glad you agree with me. Kessler can't win the job and Brock won't be given the chance.

Some say that Jackson's seat is at risk of warming up. Some imply that the competition is rigged against Brock. On its face that makes no sense. If Jackson is calculating how the QB decision could affect his survival as coach and Brock is the best option at the position he would be a fool to ignore the guy that might "save" his job, right?

The only thing certain here is that this time every year poster's are skeptical about the process of selecting the QB.

As for who gets mentioned and who does not, a great deal of that is the media. They are the ones driving the agenda about Kizer. Every time Jackson is forced to address Kizer's development by questions the media asks him he says that its too early to make any decisions, he needs more data, he'll know more after more practice time, etc.The alternative would be to intentionally downplay Kizer's progress.

*L* ... if agreeing with U means that I think your logic is coookooo ... then i agree with u ...

Its illogical at best to say that BO is not running with the ones because Hue is afraid he will look to good while at the same time saying were trying to increase his trade value by having him look good ... *scratches head* ... coco puffs logic bro ...

Why would hue not give BO a chance to win the job? .. how does that make sense ... if hue doesn't give BO a serious look with our current situation ... we have bigger problems than our talent at QB ..... crap ... were so lacking and raw in talent at the QB position Hogan should be given an opportunity ...

No, it really isn't.


You are reading what you want to read.

. I said that Kiser is the best prospet over time.

. I said that Kiser can easily beat Kessler.

. I said that if Hue is going to hitch his wagon to a player, it is probably Kiser, if for no other reason, it buys him time. He's not stupid.

. I said that Orsweiller could probably beat out Kiser, at least in the short term.

I don't think we disagree. I just think I am having a problem with communication, or you are a problem with comprehention.


Maybe it's a little of both.


Like I said earlier, it isn't about who I want to start that motivaters my words.

It's a microcosm of who he is. To assume he's eliminated based on a single pass is indeed ridiculous.

Barring any dysfunction, this staff should get as many seasons as it takes to find the QB. No staff should be expected to win without a QB. If Hue can't win once we have the QB, then examine making a move. Otherwise, this staff should stay in place until then, IMO.

j/c

I'm starting to come around to the 'start Kizer' viewpoint. I have always thought sitting rookies is generally the best way to go. Let them sit and learn behind a veteran. The problem we have is we don't have a qualified veteran for him to learn from.

A number of posters have said we should start whoever gives us the best chance to win. But does that mean win in 2017 or be a winning team in 2018 and beyond? The team has repeatedly said that the goal is to build a competitive team starting in 2018.

Even if Kizer doesn't give us the best chance to win games in 2017, starting him will 1) give him a trial by fire, 2) give him a chance to build chemistry, and 3) give us a chance to see what we have before the 2018 draft.

Most of us believe Kessler is a back up, and Osweiler isn't our future. The only QB on the roster who has the potential to be a franchise QB is Kizer. As Diam has pointed out, 1 season isn't really a good sample size, but it's better than 0 seasons or even 1/2 season. Coach him up and let him play. Taylor the game to his abilities and see if he has the potential to be The Guy.