DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum DeShone Kizer

I wanted to post this article and was surprised that we didn't have a thread dedicated to Kizer's progress.

I'm of the opinion that we should err on the side of patience and caution with him. Throwing him into the fire too quickly is not worth it. It's not like we'll be a playoff team either way.

When we drafted him I was skeptical because he was pretty bad at times last season. I knew he had issues with Brian Kelly and had good physical tools, but I saw him as a long shot.

After seeing him and reading about him, I think he's got a chance to be a good QB. He's gotta improve his accuracy, decision making, etc ... but his arm strength is evident and he was very poised in the pocket IMO. That's a good sign.

First night to compare him to Trubisky and Watson:


DeShone Kizer was the star of the rookie quarterbacks under pressure, passing for 126 yards and a touchdown when facing heat in the pocket, giving him a 129.2 passer rating. He was the only rookie quarterback to have a passer rating over 100.0 when pressured, and he was pressured 13 times on 23 dropbacks.

Mitch Trubisky had a big night for the Bears, but his passer rating under pressure was just 47.2. He attempted six passes when hurried, completing only two of them for 25 yards, but two of them were dropped by his receivers. Where Trubisky stood out when pressured was making plays with his legs, notching three scrambles for 38 yards.

Deshaun Watson was under pressure more than any other rookie passer over the first preseason games, feeling the heat on 16 of his dropbacks (53.3 percent). He attempted twelve passes, completing seven of them for 98 yards and a passer rating of 84.7. Like Trubisky, Watson also added value with his legs, scrambling three times for 24 yards and a touchdown.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pr...reseason-debuts

Mitch was rolled out quite a bit ... Watson was rolled out more than once but not as much as Mitch ... thats relevant to the pressure stats ...

I haven't watched the KC game yet ... Mahomes had good stats ... 7 - 9 i think ... im not big on stats ... I'd much rather watch .... the Stiler game ran over and so i missed the first few drives ... decided to delete it ... its on again in the next day or two .. maybe even this afternoon ... set to record ..

I liked the games the OC's called for them ... not that i didn't like what Hue did with DK ...

All 3 were very poised ... Mitch called two audibles that were nice gains on runs .. he was also calling out blocking assignments ...

I saw DK play a lot like he did at ND last year with the accuracy, locking on to a reciever and mechanics .. his decision making was fine if i recall correctly ... i think he threw 2 passes while "backpedaling" ... i only watched the video of him as the game was cut off after we tied it 14 - 14 .. i think he ended 4 or 5 of 5 ... so i prolly missed his best stuff ... its on again at some point this week .. i have it set up to record .. will watch the entire 2nd half again ... or whenever he took over ...

He came from behind .. that was something else he was very very good at in his 2 years with the Irish ...

If he can improve his mechanics, that should improve his accuracy and then not lock on to one reciever as much (he doesn't do it all the time .. ) and cut out the bad decisions ... the skies the limit ... hes got a cannon and is a very very good athelete ...

He could be the best of this group .... IF ...

Long way to go for all of them ... i can't remember the last time i was this excited about a QB class ... and I'm not even a fan of Watson .. other than the fact he plays his best on the big stage and he is without a doubt a WINNER ...

Now that Diam said that, I do recall Kizer coming from behind (or nearly winning from coming from behind) quite often

I will remain cautiously optimistic.
This many years of garbage will do that. I will say that I see so much more promise in Kizer in one outing than any other QB who has come through. Love pocket presence and his confidence and humble attitude.

NEWSHue Jackson doesn’t want to make “knee-jerk reaction” in “raising” of QB DeShone Kizer

by Scott Petrak August 11, 2017

Coach Hue Jackson hasn’t made a decision on which quarterback will start the second preseason game Aug. 21 against the New York Giants.

And don’t try to rush him.

“It’s still too soon,” he said Friday on a conference call.

More importantly, Jackson doesn’t want to act impetuously when it comes to rookie DeShone Kizer, who led two touchdown drives Thursday night against the Saints, including throwing the winning 45-yard pass to Jordan Payton on fourth-and-2 with 1:58 left.



“It’s the making of a quarterback,” Jackson said. “It’s the raising of a quarterback, and I think that takes time. I don’t think you do things out of a knee-jerk reaction. You just don’t make decisions to make them. I think you kind of let things play themselves out, and they will.

“And if a guy is good enough and deserving of an opportunity, trust me, we’re not in a position where we wouldn’t give the best player an opportunity. So we’ll continue to work through this and when we think the time is right, whenever that is, then we’ll make that decision.”

Jackson said he’s weighing all the options.

He could start Kizer against the Giants but reserve the right to go back to Brock Osweiler for the start of the regular season. He could bump Kizer up to No. 2 ahead of Cody Kessler. He could name Kizer the starter moving forward. He could stick with Osweiler against the Giants but leave the door open for Kizer to take over at any time.

“Nothing’s off the table,” Jackson said. “I’m not in a position to really say where I am because I don’t want to lead you guys into thinking I’m thinking one thing when maybe I’m thinking another.”

Kessler opened training camp atop the depth chart but was bad and slipped to No. 2. Osweiler started against the Saints and was underwhelming, going 6-for-14 for 42 yards and a 50.3 rating.

Without a clear-cut better choice, Jackson was asked his concerns about going to Kizer right now.

“I just think that’s too soon. I mean, I don’t feel very comfortable,” Jackson said. “That’s why I haven’t made that decision. I think there’s a process to all of this, and I think we’re just in the beginning phases of it for him.

“You want to do what’s best for your team and for your players, not just because people see a bomb that’s thrown down the field for 45 yards. There’s more to playing quarterback than just that. So we’re not there yet. When it’s the right time to make the decision that we feel is right to say, ‘This is the quarterback of the Cleveland Browns for 2017,’ then we’ll make that decision.”

Kizer went 11-for-18 for 184 yards, a touchdown and a 114.1 rating playing the entire second half against Saints backups, and Jackson said he took a positive step.

“He threw the ball down the field, made some plays with his arm, made some plays with his legs and stood in the pocket with poise,” Jackson said.

It wasn’t all good for the No. 52 pick out of Notre Dame.

“There was calling the plays in the huddle. Making sure we execute the plays at the line of scrimmage,” Jackson said. “He’ll be the first to tell you that there are some things that were not DeShone Kizer-like from practice, the things he needs to work through and continue to get better at.”

Kizer was sacked three times and hung onto the ball too long on a couple of other plays.

“If the guy is unsure of a progression or if a guy is unsure of a coverage, he didn’t see the rotation of a safety, he didn’t see the rotation of a linebacker soon enough, so all of the sudden you don’t make the decision when it needs to happen, so you’re now searching,” Jackson said. “So you end up holding onto the ball a little bit, and he did do that a couple times.”

Kizer said he was never surprised in his first NFL action, got more comfortable as the game went on and was able to “let it rip.” That was obvious on the winner to Payton, when Kizer picked the go route — Jackson gave him two options — and lofted a perfect strike.

Kizer said it reminded him of his first start at Notre Dame against Virginia.

“That was a game-winning touchdown to Will Fuller down the same left side right around the same distance where you just let it go and you know you just put it in the right spot,” Kizer said after the game.

The Browns invested in the offensive line and defense in the offseason. That makes it easier to go with a rookie quarterback if Jackson determines the time is right.

“If that’s the decision that we make, I wouldn’t have any hesitation,” Jackson said.

https://www.brownszone.com/2017/08/11/hu...-deshone-kizer/

I am truly hoping that Hue doesn't cave into the fans that will be calling for Kizer to start week 1.

Physically Kizer can be an NFL starter. I see a lot of potential in this kid to be the QB.

Mentally he has a long way to go. It takes him too long to process and he struggles when his first read is covered. He does seem calm and poised in the pocket however, so he should improve in this area with more time in the system.

This is the first QB that we have drafted in a long time that actually gives me hope. Hopefully Hue doesn't rush him onto the field and force him into bad habits or onto the injured reserve.

I am not saying this kid is a lock to be a good QB, but the potential is definitely there.

Once Hue calls Kizers name, there is no going back without causing a mess.

I feel the same way. Good post.

First, it was only the first preseason game.

Second, there was no Joe Thomas at left tackle.

Third, Kizer was by far the best, but against 2nd/3rd string competition.

Now if Kizer keeps progressing and having the best showing at QB, then I say you have to start him and let him take his lumps this year. If one of the other two comes on, or Kizer struggles, then Osweiler or Kessler start.

That said, I did love those long passes.

I still think Brock should start against New York, but Kizer isn't too far behind him.

Why is everyone so quick to point out it was "against 2nd and 3rd stringers"

But never really talks about the fact that both teams had 2nd and 3rd stringers playing..

I'm of the opinion hue is not going to cave into any pressure. He strikes me as a person comfortable making the decision based on his opinion and what he sees. He certainly doesn't get it right all the time, that's a different issue. But I think he will star who he thinks is the best and most ready qb.

Because if Kizer is good enough to be a starter, he should beat 2nd stringers. Also, the matchups should be fairly equal along the lines.

Maybe Kizer should be the starter. As I pointed out a few posts back, it won't really hurt anything to hold Kizer out a while. It will hurt a lot if we put him in and then have to backtrack on that position.

If Kizer keeps playing well, I'd think the Jets game at home will be the time to get him in, assuming the team isn't playing well with Brock at QB. The Jets is game #5. That would be a 12 game look at Kizer to determine if we go forward with him or consider drafting another QB next April.

Hue's comments come across as it's just a matter of time before Kizer is named the starter.

I don't have a clue as to when that "time" is--whether it be the next game, sometime during preseason or season, and even next season--but it sure sounds like that time is going to happen.

I trust Hue and just hope the stupid fans and media don't drive him nuts if he decides not to start Kizer this year.

Interesting stats. I should finally be able to see the game on Sunday. I will keep an eye on his under pressure play, but I will also completely neglect to give my uninformed opinion. I'm just no good at judging QBs.

The biggest thing (or most noticeable to me) I saw that he needs more time with before real games is getting in and out of the huddle. It seemed like he was cutting it close with the play clock a lot.

As far as reads and progressions, I'm not sure how much he really can improve that by holding a clipboard. Seems like one of those things that would improve primarily through doing it/repetitions, and starters get the lion's share of the reps.

For week two, I think giving him the entire second half again makes sense. He could use the game reps.

If Osweiler performs better with more chemistry with the ones, maybe he can hold off Kizer for awhile. That could be beneficial. If he doesn't look better, preseason week 3 could get interesting.

Lets be honest people.. at what point would Kizer ever be ready? sitting on the bench learning from who for a year? Cody kessler? Brock Osweiler?

Guys learn from actually playing. No successful (or unsuccessful) QB has said 'awwww.. wish I sat on the bench just a little bit longer.'

I think we as Browns fans especially, don't want to throw a guy out there bc then we'll learn the truth. The optimism and hope will be no longer if the guy goes out there and sucks. The fear of adding another name to the long list of jerseys is our worse nightmare.

Play the best QB. If that is Kizer, rookie or not, start him.

I agree w/the part about playing the best qb. I just wonder if the best qb is who so many of you think it is?

well, it certainly isn't Kessler.

You typed it for me.

In the short amount of time I've seen all 3 play...

Right now Brock is the best QB.
Kessler is probably second because he won't lose any games on his own.
Kizer is probably third on the list.

Physically Kizer is first, but Brock isn't that far behind.
Kessler is better than last year and made a couple of throws that impressed me, but is still far behind.

Anyone that thinks that the only way for a QB (especially a rookie QB) to learn reads and progressions is to be thrown into the game before he is ready, doesn't understand how a football practice works. In practice you get instant feedback and can run the same football play over and over again against many different fronts and coverages until you get it right.

If you throw Kizer in the way he is playing right now, he'll throw a half dozen interceptions or get hurt in the first few games and everyone will be calling for his head.

Between now and week one could he get much better at the mental part of it?

Sure and I'll be the first one to say he should be the starter at that time.

Right now is not that time.

Right now he isn't ready.

I agree w/most of that. Not sure about Kessler being second best, but it's early. Lot of football to see before now and the start of the season.

Brock is awful... I think he starts the season but dude is awful...

Lots of hitches, slow to diagnose, slow reading defenses, holding the ball too long.. The kid isn't ready. Kessler is ready, if you could mix Kesslers skills and Kizers arm you would have something.

I know it isn't popular to support Brock, but I thought he looked pretty good the other night. He was hampered by all the penalties, drops, and by a mental lapse by Britt when he didn't drag his foot.

Heck, even after that bonehead play by Britt.....Brock fired a perfect strike into tight coverage to Britt for what should have been a TD, but Britt dropped it.

I think too many people are not being objective as to what they are seeing w/Brock and allowing preconceived notions influence their opinions.

Furthermore, I don't think most of you understand how progressions work and how long a qb should hold the ball. It's huge to have a qb get the ball out on time and it is devastating to have a qb hold the ball too long. People on the boards have never understood this and their comments on the OL over the years have proven that to be true.

Kizer has not impressed me yet. Still he is not terrible for a rookie and at least he beats what he should beat. It will be interesting to see how he develops.

Kessler holds the ball forever. In fact, he held the ball longer than all but one qb in the NFL last year.

I want nothing to do w/the guy.

In fact, I had Hogan rated quite a bit higher than Kessler when they were coming out of college.

I won't argue he holds the ball but he makes good decisions, he hits receivers in stride. I'm not advocating for any of these QB's but hes at minimum a Brian Hoyer QB.

Osweiler eh and Kizer holds the ball just as long and isn't as accurate.

I said something similar when we drafted Kizer.

Something like transplanting Kessler's head on Kizer's body and making a mutant QB called Kizler.

He does hold the ball way too long, but he doesn't make many mistakes and is efficient with the ball.

If we cut him today, I could see KC picking him up and making him the next Alex Smith.

I'm not a huge fan of Kessler either, but I think he's miles ahead of Kizer mentally.

I watched him up close all last year.... I'm praying he improves because I fully expect him to start the season... But he was awful.... Though I do admit I think the biggest problem was that he wasn't smart enough to pick up O'briens offense... Hopefully hue is smart enough to keep it simple for him... The guy has the tools but I personally think he lacks the smarts and leadership to be an elite QB...

I stand by my assessment that he's awful.... 10 home games standing on the sidelines having to watch him consistently miss wide open guys or make the wrong read is how I came by my conclusion... As I said I'm hoping it was mainly because he couldn't get OB's offense and hue will be better about tailoring the offens to Brock...

KC drafted Mahommes.

I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but I don't like a qb leading me who is more afraid of making a mistake than making a play.

I can coach guys to be smarter w/their decisions, but I can't help them grow balls. LOL

No disrespect taken.

You can probably coach him to grow balls, but short of roids, his arm isn't going to get a ton better.

That being said, it is better this year and he made 2 throws that I didn't think he was capable of last game.

He improved to the point where he doesn't have to wait for people to open doors for him to get in the mall, but I'm betting he is still asking for help when opening a pickle jar.

I do love the confidence Kizer shows in his arm, the pump hitches (needs to protect the hitch/fumble better). On some end he holds too long but big plays take time. If his mind can get to speed we might have something, the guy looks tough, tougher than any young QB we've seen in a while and young players need it.

He looks tough he looks focused. Barely know the kid but he seems to want it so far.

As long as you want to start comparing draft selections that didn't get made.

TJ Watt looked really good, and I'm bummed the Browns didn't end up with him, at some point around when they picked Njoku, and Peppers.

And Kafka, or Kaya, or whatever, the Qb who went to Detroit, I think is going to be a pretty good Qb down the road.

Sounds like quite the metamorphosis

I watched Trubisky yesterday and wasn't as impressed as the numbers would indicate ... they rolled him out and moved him out of the pocket A LOT ... they wanted nothing to do with him in the pocket under duress

The first play action pass where Brock and Crow went opposite directions on the fake and then He and Coleman weren't on the same page either may have colored the rest of Osweiler's performance for me a bit. I definitely had a sense of "Same Old Browns"/"Here we go again." The penalties and drops didn't help him, and he should have had a TD to Britt a couple of times. He didn't do horrible overall. Whoever we end up starting needs more reps with the ones. Kizer didn't look ready to run the show quite yet. Can he get ready (and how best to do it) is the question Hue needs to figure out.

I will go with that Vers.

I offer my opinion only and I am NOT carrying a pitch fork either.

I say play him ASAP. The pressure I see as coming to Hue is likely self imposed. That is if you see the big picture which I believe Hue does.

That said Hue likely sooner rather than later is going to want to know what he has in Kiser, I know I would.

In the big picture scenario the questions are can Kiser be da man? Delay IMO is not an option with the picks we have we can move in next years draft and land a top prospect if Kiser isn't the future. So with more questions than answers at this point either soon after the season starts or at season start these questions must be answered IMO.

I trust Hue, he is a top notch coach he can go any way. He may already know what he wants to do with Kiser. Sit him a year and develop and he will be the man down the road or like me he may feel the need to answer some of the questions soon or maybe now.

If its me he gets the nod from jump and we take our lumps and see if he improves as the season progresses. If he improves great if he don't we have options to replace him with a better prospect.

But again I won't be a critic either way...

JMHO

*LOL* ... imagine that a team not wanting there QB UNDER DURESS ... isn't that the object? ...

They took advantage of his mobility and the fact he throws a beautiful ball on the move .. did u see how accurate those throws were? They were nice play calls to get his feet wet and he EXECUTED THEM almost to perfection .. he SLIGHTLY and i mean SLIGHTLY led one of his recievers a tad to far ... still a very catchable ball and a completion ...

Did u also notice what happend to Glennon when they kept him in the pocket ... NOT PRETTY .. he looked like crap but holy crap was he UNDER DURESS .. *L* ..

Its way way to early for this to mean anything comparision wise for all ... well 4 of them ... KC game is locked and loaded on my DVR .. all it means is they had good first games ... don't read much into it at all ...

IMO all 3 of them that i watched did some real nice things ... Watson missed on two throws he has to complete at this level .. but accuracy is not one of his strengths .. WINNING IS ..

I'm participating cause its fun and I'm really looking forward to watching all 4 of these guys ... realistically DK may start first (bummer as far as I'm concerned) and then Watson ... barring injury Mahomes won't see the field this year .. they have a legite starter ... my guess is the plan is for Mitch to sit the year ... but Glennon's not very good and they may get Mitch out there at some point to get him some reps ... NEXT YEAR ... the real fun begins ...

BUT if the reason u weren't as impressed with his performance as the numbers showed was they rolled him out to much cause they didn't want him under pressure is very very nit picky ... its not like those throws are easy .... he played very very well ..