DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus All Things North Korea...

This kid didnt deserve to die. But only stupid people go to NK as a tourist.

The problem with the general tone of this thread, is overly political, not enough humanitarian. I was just talking with my buddy and said, "I would rip any president for this course of action", because it threatens humanity as a whole.

Threatening a crazy person makes things worse for planet earth. This isn't 1942.

If our missle defense is on point, the only people we should be defending, morally, are the persecuted people of North Korea.

Anything other than that is posturing, and a couple blowhards. Diplomacy is always the better route.

What do u do when diplomacy is not working? ..

What would u do ... define what u mean by diplomacy and what the next step should be in this ..

Tell me to F off if your not going to be serious ... if u can't get over your hatred of trump and respond with what u think should be done next ... like i said .. tell me to go blow ... I'd rather have that than some BS about how bad Trump is ...

That's my point, this is not political bias. In all seriousness, let me comprehend your post, perhaps attempt to relate

i think there is a lot of misinformation when it comes to nk, this arguably the most isolated culture on planet earth. I believe 5,000-15,000 people successfully defect from North Korea annually. With a risk of their life, and their families lives. The people that do make it out all say the same thing.

Less and less North Koreans buy into their god like persona, that is Un. This is mainly caused by an influx of information going into North Korea. It's amazing what a USB stick in a balloon can do. Every day more of his faithful followers are giving up on his bs. His country, his power is already crumbling before his eyes.

Freedom will be restored to North Korea, not because of the United States or China.

Get out of the way, let cooler heads prevail. I'm really not trying to make this political. I am really trying to make this a moral argument.

I think one of the coolest things to happen with the internet, is the drive to get people to send in their old flash drives to South Korea, where it would be loaded up with western media and drone dropped to North Koreans.

Is this really a thing? How 'bout a link to this?

Y'know, people were very worried that Reagan called the Soviets the evil empire and dems back then lit their hair on fire just like today.

This could all be 'theater' along with the sanctions to cause the collapse of this regime just like back then.

Trump needs to stop making YOLO tough guy comments on NK. it's really sad watching Mattis, Tillerson, Haley, and others make statements that are completely different from what trump is saying.

if we are indeed going to do this, whether hard diplomacy or war, then this administration has GOT to be on their game. everybody needs to get on the same damn page.

There is a very good documentary on PBS, maybe frontline? I'll check later

All BS aside ... i agree .. the way to get this done is to get the folks in NK educated ... Most folks in the know have believed that for decades now .. problem is getting them the info ...

Problem is .. how to get them the info ...

15 - 20 years ago the radio didn't work ... now the net don't work ... some have suggested getting them cheap cell phones with YouTube showing what life in SK is like and dispelling all Un's BS ...

And i agree theres a lot of misinformation out there ... here's what we do know about his capabilities ...

- he's been launching missiles at a rather alarming rate .. what are the actual capabilities of those misses? .. NO ONE REALLY KNOWS ...

So do u err on the side of caution and ASSume the worst, the best or somewhere in between ... personally .. u have to plan for the worst ...

- what are his nuclear capabilities? .. some say he has up to 70 mini nuclear bombs ... some don't believe he has nuclear capability .. again .. what do u believe? .. and do u err on the side of caution or hope and pray he doesn't have any ...

Its a hairy ass situation ... we don't know what we don't know ...

Where did u get that 5,000 - 15,000 defectors a year number? ... i really have no idea what those numbers are ... i believe theres 25 million under his thumb ... if thats the case .. 5 - 15k is basically a very slow drip ...

How do u know his power is crumbling before his eyes ... once again i have no clue about that .. I'd hope your right ... that'd be great ... but it don't know if thats u hoping or you've heard it somewhere ... please elaborate ..

And u didn't tell me what u would do now ...

- a strategic patience like our last president did ..
- harsher and more sanctions ..
- would u put more pressure on China and sanction them ..

What would u do now .. cause waiting for the internal revolution could be a long ass wait and may never happen ...

Thanks for a civil response ...

I'm not sure Russia and North Korea are fair comparisons, mainly because of land mass, resources, and economic stability. Posturing makes it appear this way, but it is not the wolf in your backyard.

Whats yolo stand for?

Do u like his military people? .. they say thats who hes relying on ..

I'd like for them to clean the communication aspect up .. his communication to the public between him and his staff has been ... lets just say, less than smooth .. *L* ..

We know what u don't like .. how do u think it should be handled? .. what could Trump do with the actual NK problem that would make u go ... even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile ... *L* ...

http://www.flashdrivesforfreedom.org/

http://www.businessinsider.com/north-koreans-have-smuggled-in-thousands-of-usb-sticks-2017-1

I appreciate that, you brought up several valid points.

I think the international community has applied appropriate pressure, for the right reasons. In all honesty I was against the bush increase in missle defense spending, maybe around 2004? That looks to have been a smart move, because missle defense is the graeatest asset to modern warfare.

I do think patience is applicable here, mainly because of North Korea's economic instability. I hope this becomes a teaching moment for the United States, and planet earth as a whole. We saw a technological boom the last time people talked like this.

Technology will bring freedom to North Korea, and I truly believe we need more of that here, NASA

YOLO =you only live once.

basically he's making statements just off the top of his dome. the "fire and fury" comment is being reported that he just said that all on his own. and then he doubles down on it.

I do like his military people. Mattis is that dude. Kelly is that dude. McMasters has some blunders so far but i do like him.

I don't think he's relying on his military advisors. i think he's relying on Bannon. and that scares the crap out of me.

i agree about the communication between him and his staff, which is why i made that comment that they need to get on the same page, because his staff are making statements that contradict his. right now we are looking as chaotic as NK. maybe thats reverse psychology on their part? i dunno, but i would like more stability coming from the oval.

if we are indeed headed for war, it would be nice for this administration to be in lockstep, not all over the place.

how would i handle it? as an armchair president, I would attempt to bring Russia, China, NK, SK, and japan all to the table AFTER hopefully getting Russia, NK and China at the table first and negotiate some sort of deal. so I'm talking a southeast Asian deal similar to the iranian Nuclear agreement. Getting the blessing/approval from China and Russia will go a long way into getting fat boy to the table, as the reality is that IF we go to war, it won't be with just NK; it's gonna be China and possibly Russia.

If China and russia isn't willing to come to an agreement, then i would attempt to go to NK directly, with discussions on all economic sanctions being lifted in exchange for them to denuclearize themselves, OR a way to allow them to maintain a nuke under heavy supervision from the US and the UN.

i'm less worried about NK launching a nuke and more concerned about Trump starting WW3 in southeast Asia.

we are 1-1-1 in southeast asia. won against japan, tied with korea, and straight up took an L in vietnam. we aren't very successful in southeast asia, and going to war with China isn't going to end well with anybody.

the only way china does not engage in combat against the US is if NK strikes first. that needs to be kept in mind when perusing diplomatic solutions in this region.

Bannon is about to be kicked out soon. Trump thinks he's the rat and so does Kelly it sounds like.

Bannon has already accomplished most of his agenda, i'm assuming. Kelly tried, but honestly i think he doesn't have any more control than the last guy, simply because it's Trump they're dealing with.

i mean the guy gets daily "flattery" briefs for god's sake.

Where did I say i voted for Bernie, or was a Bernie supporter? Very quick with those labels, arent you?

It's a percect example. All those other things don't matter all that much. But in a way I do agree, Pugsley with the short pecker is hard to guage.

He does have less to lose. His country is crap and his love life is crap.

Not saying both countries are the same. What happened was Reagan made them spend themselves into submission and subsequently won the cold war.

The fact that NK is already not stable economically is an advantage to us, because sooner or later their people are going to revolt rather than continue to starve.

But the only issue is that China is propping them up financially. But Lil Kim is in a bind, he is already having to choose between feeding his people and continuing to spend on more military. Further sanctions are making him desparate ,

Wasnt he there on a humanitarian mission?

No, he was a tourist. But feel free to keep making stuff up. Maybe he was a secret American Ambassador also. Maybe he was Dennis Rodman's brother. Maybe he was delivering a message from Colin Kapernick.

Here's to hoping his people get tired enough of him that we don't have to do anything major.

Making things up? Do you see the question mark at the end of my sentence/question? Or are you too dumb to understand what a question is?

You really don't have to answer that, because it was rhetorical. I already know the answer.

Its because you liberals are all the same. You make stuff up constantly. It wasnt good enough for you that this kid was just dumb, and it cost him his life. So you had to make up stories about him to somehow justify it.

See these?----->>>>>?????????.Those are what people with half a brain know as question marks. So let me break this down for you to a real simple level that you can understand. When somone places one of these ? funny little symbols, they are asking you a question, not making a statemnt, or "making things up" as you like to moronically claim. Now take your time and read this real slow and clear, so you can understand the words I am typing. If I had said " he was there on a humanitarian mission" then that could possibly be me making something up, but see I put a ? and asked you a question " wasnt he there on a humanitarian mission?" . Now a non LD class response would be " no, he was not, he was there as a tourist"

Oh and for the liberal thing,you do realize we vote the same party, right? HEY!!! theres that question mark thingie again?? How about that?? THERE IT IS AGAIN!!!! Wow the wonders of comprehending the English language!!

We dont vote for the same party.

If we did, I'd have to reconsider parties.

Why, because the true facts dont fit your agenda of calling anyone who questions you names and labeling them with some stupid classification, something only simpletons do?

But you better start reconsidering then.

What true facts?

The fact that you tried to make the dead kid have a noble reason for being in NK?

Oh lord, do you still not comprehend what a question is . I ASKED you if he was, and my comment about true facts had zero to do with that question. My statement about true facts was the fact that we vote for the same part, but go ahead and label everyone in order to feel better about yourself.

Which party exactly do you think I vote for?

well you have claimed in the past to vote Libertarian

But like I said , I asked a question because I had thought I had heard he was on a humanitarian mission from a church, I was mistaken, this is what I had heard in the past that made me think that
" as negotiators did not wish to antagonise the North Korean regime by repudiating Warmbier's purported affiliation with a Methodist church."

You are somewhat right, and somewhat wrong.

I identify with right leaning libertarians.

But I have never voted for them.

Because they have never had a candidate worth voting for.

This past election I voted for Trump. Only because Hillary was worse to me. And Gary was ....high... all the time. I couldnt vote for him after that townhall meeting. It was embarrassing.

Next election I will probably vote Democrat, because I have zero faith the Repubs will get Healthcare right, and it is the most important issue for me. So it will be NEXT!

So it's not possible for you to vote for the same party as me, because I dont tow any particular party's line. Nothing is absolute.

But you do get bonus points for remembering I identify libertarian.

Well except for the part about voting Dem in the next election, which s I have no idea about yet, what you said is almost exactly the same thing I would, and have said. Well I didnt vote Trump, or Hilary. If the Dems roll out what I feel is the best candidate then I could possibly vote Dem, but I am not as liberal as you assumed.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/15/...p-warnings.html

Kim Jong Un appears to back down after Mattis, Trump warnings

Kim Jong Un appeared to blink first, with North Korean media reporting Tuesday the dictator had delayed a decision about whether to fire missiles toward Guam – a pronouncement that came hours after a particularly stark warning from Defense Secretary James Mattis promised further escalation would mean “game on.”

Kim Jong Un’s remarks came as he made his first public appearance in nearly two weeks, inspecting his army and examining missile plans, the official state media arm, KCNA, reported, according to Reuters. But the leader also tempered his recent fiery rhetoric, appearing to step back from the brink in an intensifying war of words between United States and North Korean leaders.

“He said that if the Yankees persist in their extremely dangerous reckless actions on the Korean peninsula and in its vicinity, testing the self-restraint of the DPRK, the latter will make an important decision as it already declared,” KCNA reported.

Kim Jong Un's statement followed President Trump's promise of “fire and fury” if North Korea continued to threaten the U.S. and, on Monday, Mattis saying any sign North Korea was attempting to fire a missile at the U.S. territory of Guam would amount to “game on.”

“It could escalate into war very quickly,” Mattis said. “…Yes, that’s called war, if they shoot at us.”

The Tuesday statement is a long way from previous declarations, in which Kim Jong Un went so far as to circle a date for his plan to fire a missile at Guam.

The latest uproar between Pyongyang and the rest of the world began following a stunning acceleration in North Korea’s nuke program. North Korea twice successfully tested an intercontinental ballistic missile in July, and dual reports last week – out of Japan and the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency – suggested North Korea had acquired the technology to miniaturize a nuclear weapon to fit on a missile. While Pyongyang still has hurdles to cross in developing a reliable nuclear ICBM delivery vehicle, the rogue regime’s rapid progress shocked the world.

They.backed off their statements after china made it clear that if they struck first, they are on their own.

However, they are still developing their nukes, and china has their back 100% if the US strikes first.

But that's the first step.

As I said earlier, I think the comments by the President were for China's ears as well. We needed them to make a stand. I think China's message to Pugsley was he better not poke the dog again because it is going to bite.

China did what they needed to do, reign in the little punk before he set of a international conflict.