On Friday, May 19, 2017, Mayor Mitch Landrieu delivered an address about the City of New Orleans’ efforts to remove monuments that prominently celebrate the “Lost Cause of the Confederacy.” The statues were erected decades after the Civil War to celebrate the “Cult of the Lost Cause,” a movement recognized across the South as celebrating and promoting white supremacy.
There are four prominent monuments in question. The Battle of Liberty Place monument was erected by the Crescent City White League to remember the deadly insurrection led by white supremacists against the City’s racially integrated police department and government. The Jefferson Davis statue on Jefferson Davis Parkway, the P.G.T. Beauregard equestrian statue on Esplanade Avenue at the entrance to City Park, and the Robert E. Lee statue at Lee Circle.
Office of Mayor Mitch Landrieu | City of New Orleans
j\c Its curious that all the hate that is being spewed is ,coming from the left that hates Trump so much that your guy Obama was given 8 years on the highest platform on earth and did squat for race relations in America watta missed opportunity heck he was more interested on helping illegals than true americans
I am just miffed at a country that was founded on the basis of "all men are created equal" can have be having this discussion.
We went to war and lost a bunch of people, to rid ourselves of those groups, by whatever name you choose to call them, of people that cannot accept the basic premise of our existence as a nation.
I have no time for any discussion or parsing of the matter. I am saddened that our presidents grossly wrong views were uttered, and that his statement provide comfort and solace to those who believe in such nonsense. I am not surprised, it was only a matter of time for this side to be exposed.
Putin must be chuckling.
I hope the grown ups take charge and provide a direction for our country in the interim.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
Aww, the snowflakes needed to build their participation trophies that way they can feel special, even after defeat.
Proving once again that American conservatives are the biggest babies the world has ever seen. It actually fits their ideology that Trump is president.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I really have no excuse for a man that would own slaves. Yeah, we can say that "the times were different," but a true humanitarian of any age should have known that it was wrong to have slaves.
I call it exploitation.
Words are great. But actions speak louder than words!
Aww, the snowflakes needed to build their participation trophies that way they can feel special, even after defeat.
Proving once again that American conservatives are the biggest babies the world has ever seen. It actually fits their ideology that Trump is president.
You're pretty quick to name call, but God forbid if someone resorted to your tactics.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
What is this "hope" nonsense you're rambling about?
I'm not some pet project of yours.
Yea, I hate nazis. How horrible of me.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Okay..........I'll stop trying to educate you. No problem.
I hate Nazis, too. Are you suggesting I don't?
Dude, stop playing your dumb ass games. You aren't talking to 40 or those other guys now. You are talking to me! You really believe I don't see through the BS?
Talk to me in real terms............not some juvenile, ignorant rhetoric.
But you haven't said anything that warrants a serious response the entire time.
Remember, both sides have a responsibility in why you're upset.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
But you haven't said anything that warrants a serious response the entire time.
Remember, both sides have a responsibility in why you're upset.
I haven't said anything that warrants a serious response? Really?
Read these again:
Quote:
I don't think that most white supremacists can be educated.
I think the reasoning behind their beliefs is based off of ignorance and hate. They aren't open to learning or to being tolerant and accepting of others.
I also think that they are a rather small group that needs to be viewed similar to a child stomping his feet and screaming in a store. Viewed w/a mixture of disgust, bemusement, and incredulity.
I do not think it is a good idea to match their hate and ignorance w/similar acts. I think that just leads to causing so many other whites who live on the "fringe" to take a definitive stand on the issue. That's not a good thing. For example, one member of the left brought a blow torch to the rally and used fired it toward a group of white supremacists. He later said he was simply "minding my own business..." LOL ....Yeah, a lot of us walk around w/blow torches while minding our own business.
I think the answer to dealing w/White Supremacists is NOT to lower ourselves and act w/the same hate and ignorance as they do, but to instead ridicule their actions and dismiss their platform. I say the same thing about all groups that have hate in the foundation of their ideology.
To do otherwise is eerily similar as to legitimizing their platform.
Edited by Versatile Dog (08/17/17 08:42 AM) _________________________ Tear Down the Wall!
Top Like Notify Email Post #1299911 - 08/17/17 09:04 AM Re: State of emergency declared amid violence at Charlottesville's 'Unite the Right' rally [Re: Versatile Dog] Versatile Dog Offline
Legend
Registered: 03/03/13 Posts: 25855 I want to add to my last post.
While some may think it is nonsensical to blame both extreme sides on this issue, I think it simply a matter of common sense and reasonableness.
When we fight hate w/hate, we simply are lowering ourselves to the same standard as those we oppose. That serves to legitimize their beliefs of an "us against them" mentality.
Instead, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard and use such groups as an example of how not to act and behave. That is how we can educate our youth.
Great men, such a Viktor Frankl, who wrote "Man's Search for Meaning" did not resort to killing Germans after he was freed from a Nazi concentration camp. In fact, he said that the main thing that kept him alive during his time at the camps was to let the world know just how horrible the acts of Nazis were.
His story, along w/many other similar stories helped educate citizens across the globe to the horrors of those who use hate as a fundamental platform. We learn that this can never happen again.
Education trumps vindictiveness!
One might ask something along the lines of: "Should we just allow white supremacists a free reign?" They might even wonder if that group will become more forceful and act out by killing members of the groups they hate.
I think it would be wise to ignore them and not draw attention to them by matching their hate. However, when they cross the legal line, then we punish them to the fullest extent of the law. We can pass legislation that hate crimes carry a stiffer penalty.
Don't try to match their hate and ignorance w/more of the same. That won't defeat them.
Defeat them w/education and the use of the legal system. Many would be surprised at how much more effective of a defense it is as opposed to acting in similar fashion as they do.
If you don't think those comments warrant a response.......well.......it says more about you than me.
Aww, the snowflakes needed to build their participation trophies that way they can feel special, even after defeat.
Proving once again that American conservatives are the biggest babies the world has ever seen. It actually fits their ideology that Trump is president.
Actually, most of those were probably built by southern dems. Just saying.
I find the latest twist by the trumpians hilarious. It's about the statues... GMAFB. It's not about the statues it's about having a president that aligns himself with the likes of the Neo Nazis, White Supremacist, and KKK. Period.
It's not about the evil alt-left and Antifa. It's not about erasing history. It's not about 'what about Obama?"... It's about this president's moral compass!
As we talk about monuments that we feel should be removed despite the poll showing the majority of Americans thinking they should stay up....
Why do we tolerate a statue in Seattle of Vladimir Lenin, an evil man who executed 30,000 of his political rivals during his tenure. The left does not corner the market of moral heroes...
Here's my ideas on how to try and solve this ... asking for solutions was a hell of a question cause i had to think on it ... witch is a good thing ... i love learning and unfortunately thinking is becoming a lost art .... I tell my nephews almost daily that if they pay attention to details and stop and think things through ... in todays world they will be way ahead of the game and have a leg up on most ...
Obviously the ideal solution would be to sit down and talk and try and come up with a comprimise .. i agree with you that the KKKer's want zero to do with compromising ..... ZERO ... we could go through the motions (if they'd even come to the table) but thats about all it would be ...
So scratch that ....
I don't believe showing up at their next rally with more firepower than them and having a shootout in the streets is a real good idea either ... from what i heard there was a few hundred of them last weekend ... thats barely the tip of the iceberg ... if there's 500,000 or so of them ... thats not even a blip on the radar of them ...
That wouldn't dent there numbers and would just send them back into hiding ... witch is what we don't want ... we can't adress them and get rid of them if we don't know who they are ... these people hide in the dark ... we don't know who they are ... one of the first steps is identifying them ...
Before i go any further ... i hope we can agree that unfortunately there is always going to be racist and racism ... and there will always be hate groups ... we can't legislate or beat thoughts out of peoples minds ... and there will always be bad people and there always be disgruntled, uneducated people that are easily swayed and will be led around by the nose cause of displaced anger ... and I'm not making excuses or giving any of them a free pass ... its just a fact ...
Do u agree and if not, why not?
Knowing what I know ... I'm not expert on any of this, i may not even be a novice ... *L* ... i know the history of slavery better than most but i know squat about todays environment ...
my approach would be 4 or 5 prongued .... with the main tenants being IDENTIFYING, EDUCATING and INFILTRATING ...
We need to identify the KKKers groups ... sometimes the names of the groups can be decieving ... like the National Policy Insitute ... that doesn't sound like a white supremist group ... but it is ....
Once we identify them we need to infiltrate them to find out exactly whose in them ...
Then we need to educate everyone else as to what groups are KKKer's and then expose whose in those groups and what there views are ....
This would take awhile ... but I'm not a short term solution kind of guy .... u need short term solutions but they need to mesh with and be a step with the process of the long term solutions ...
I believe that is the best LONG TERM SOLUTION to minimize them ... These people like to hide in the dark in the shadows like most scum does ... well lets put them directly in the spotlight and you'd see a lot of reactions like the one family that wrote the letter and basically kicked their son out of their family ... you'd also hurt them financially and make them outcasts ... that may also lead to the "fringe" KKKer's or the fence sitters to leave or not join ...
On the education side .. I'd like to know the demographics of the group ... a pure guess ... at least 80% of them are under the age of 30 with a huge chunk of that being 25 and under ... i HOPE and this is just me HOPING that as these kids mature they realize the error of their ways ...
Anyhow, I'd like to know the demographics of the groups .... this way u can target how and where there being recruited and focus efforts to directly combat that via those same channels ...
I'd like to see only peaceful protests at them ... I understand the anger and why folks want to bash their heads in ... hell, i do to .... buts its not productive and short of an all out war its not going to solve the problem ...
the fighting only drives up their exposure and recruitment ... it makes those involved feel good for a few days but what else does it really accomplish? ... do u think some folks quit or it drove others away? ... I don't ... u have to keep your goals in mind .. and i don't see what the fighting accomplished ... in last weekends clash it ended in an innocent young ladies death who went there to peacefully protest (and no .. I'm not blaming the violent anti-protesters for this .. not even a little bit .... it was clearly the POS who drove the car into the crowds fault ... but do u honestly believe in your heart that if it wasn't for all the fighting going on he would have done that .... i don't .... i could be wrong ... so please don't go there ... it was not what i meant so please don't take it and exptropalate it out)
And i actually want them to feel safe ... i want more of them there ... I'd have camera's all over the place taking video so we could identify as many of them as possible ... then expose them ... I'd actually have marchers there with them gathering names ... u can get a lot of info and learn a lot in 2 or 3 days if u do it right ...
They have first ammendment rights .. weather we like it or not ... may as well try and use it to the best of our advantage ....
I'd like to see us bring back more jobs ... look at the rise of the original Nazi party ... the biggest thing Hitler had "going" for him was the economy ... he had a country of out of work, under employed, disgruntled citizens ... it was ripe for FALSE LEADERS to rise and then ... well we know the rest ...
I'm not sure what to do with sites like facebook and google ... the KKKer's aren't stupid ... so u know what ... lets shut their sites down ... i thought maybe we could keep them open to "keep and eye" on them and see whose joining ... but they'd figure that out and adjust ... so lets just make that aspect as hard as we can for them ...
They should definetly be off paypal and the other online "money transfer" sites ... Attack their finances ... make it harder for them to recruit, buy firepower and do the things they need to ... thats how sessions shut down the KKK in Alabama ...
There's more ... but thats enough for now ... if u want more, just ask ....
Hopefully I'll hear back with your thoughts ... where u agree, disagree and things u may do differently .... hopefully this is just the start of a decent discussion ...
Anyone else that wants to have a CIVIL DISCUSSION or bring OTHER SOLUTIONS ... PLEASE PLEASE feel free to contribute ..... the rest can BITE ME ... *L* ...
It's not about the statues it's about having a president that aligns himself with the likes of the Neo Nazis, White Supremacist, and KKK. Period.
It's not about the evil alt-left and Antifa. It's not about erasing history. It's not about 'what about Obama?"... It's about this president's moral compass!
As we talk about monuments that we feel should be removed despite the poll showing the majority of Americans thinking they should stay up....
Why do we tolerate a statue in Seattle of Vladimir Lenin, an evil man who executed 30,000 of his political rivals during his tenure. The left does not corner the market of moral heroes...
I've personally been torn on the statues for a few years now ... i don't want to erase our history but I also understand that those statues can be beyond offensive to blacks ... I'm still torn ... although I don't think they should be on or in front of gov't buildings, like court houses or admin buildings or the DMV .... public parks and other gov't type places, I'm not so sure on .....
One thing I will say ... if your going to take down the statues ... u should just go do it ... if u publicize it, its only going to lead to trouble ... and the only reason for u to publicize it is for you to help your political career ... thats the only reason to publicize it .... at least IMO ...
This ones not so ... pardon the pun ... not so black and white for me ....
Russia and China are both laughing right now at how much of pathetic Snowflakes American Society and Government actually is..its a clear sign of weakness they will one day most likely exploit. Don't think they don't watch every single move we make...because they do.
I have seen some cowardly things in my time, but removing national monuments under the cover of night is more cowardly then Colts packing all their stuff under the cover of night and bolting to Indianapolis without telling anyone....
LOL its literately unbelievable....this country really has no future if this is how things are going to end up being...we got a century at most before we collapse if history is any indication...what a shame...
You know it boggles my mind sitting here this morning reflecting on the most racially united time I can think of in my life; the days, weeks and months following 9/11 united American's more than any other time I can remember.
In contrast, being born in the Sixties, I can't really remember a time that was more racially charged and America was more divided than right now.
Rather you are on the right left or in the middle, if you think about this it is just sad.
Russia and China are both laughing right now at how much of pathetic Snowflakes American Society and Government actually is..its a clear sign of weakness they will one day most likely exploit. Don't think they don't watch every single move we make...because they do.
I have seen some cowardly things in my time, but removing national monuments under the cover of night is more cowardly then Colts packing all their stuff under the cover of night and bolting to Indianapolis without telling anyone....
LOL its literately unbelievable....this country really has no future if this is how things are going to end up being...we got a century at most before we collapse if history is any indication...what a shame...
I agree we are on the decline unless something major happens. I worry about what's coming. War, riots, famine, etc. Or will we somehow regain control of our destiny and save the day? I can't imagine the lives my grandkids and their children are going to lead.
Russia and China are both laughing right now at how much of pathetic Snowflakes American Society and Government actually is..its a clear sign of weakness they will one day most likely exploit. Don't think they don't watch every single move we make...because they do.
I have seen some cowardly things in my time, but removing national monuments under the cover of night is more cowardly then Colts packing all their stuff under the cover of night and bolting to Indianapolis without telling anyone....
LOL its literately unbelievable....this country really has no future if this is how things are going to end up being...we got a century at most before we collapse if history is any indication...what a shame...
I agree we are on the decline unless something major happens. I worry about what's coming. War, riots, famine, etc. Or will we somehow regain control of our destiny and save the day? I can't imagine the lives my grandkids and their children are going to lead.
I know OldColdDawg...its a very frightening to think how their lives are going to be. I never thought i'd see things the way they are now in my lifetime...if you would have told me 20 years ago this kinda stuff would be happening I would have told you that you were crazy. Its really surreal things have gotten to where they are.
So I guess the Germans were cowards when they removed the statues and symbolism of Hitler and nazis after the war too, right?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
with the main tenants being IDENTIFYING, EDUCATING and INFILTRATING ...
We need to identify the KKKers groups ... sometimes the names of the groups can be decieving ... like the National Policy Insitute ... that doesn't sound like a white supremist group ... but it is ....
Once we identify them we need to infiltrate them to find out exactly whose in them ...
Then we need to educate everyone else as to what groups are KKKer's and then expose whose in those groups and what there views are ....
I do believe Diam has a reasonable approach to the issue of hate groups...and their attempt to stir the pot with the ultimate goal "to gain membership and support" for their cause.
I spoke briefly about the approach in the first part of the thread and noted that hate group members were from other parts of the US, far away from Charlottesville. From California, Nevada, N.Dakota, Ohio...and some cases, their family members were not aware of their loved one's views or membership in a hate group.
Once exposed, as Diam pointed out, the father of one young man wrote the local newspaper near Fargo, ND and explained that their son did not learn Hate Group values at home.
...other Hate Group members, who were recognized from the pictures and videos lost their jobs as business owners did not want to be associated with members of Hate Groups.
Society needs to send Hate Groups a message..there is a price to be paid if you are exposed..and it is easy to expose most HG members.
If these Hate Group members realize they can not hide, they will either lose their taste for Hate Groups or will work harder to hide their identity.
It appears that the internet is the tool used to help Hate Groups organize and the use of the internet by HGs needs to be addressed.
Educating and changing viewpoints might be the most difficult principles to achieve.
So I guess the Germans were cowards when they removed the statues and symbolism of Hitler and nazis after the war too, right?
Comparing Confederate War Leaders to Hitler is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen anyone parrot on here. I didn't see the Confederates commiting mass genocide against a race, or baking people alive in ovens..get a grip man!
So I guess the Germans were cowards when they removed the statues and symbolism of Hitler and nazis after the war too, right?
Comparing Confederate War Leaders to Hitler is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen anyone parrot on here. I didn't see the Confederates commiting mass genocide against a race, or baking people alive in ovens..get a grip man!
thanks for satisfying Godwins Law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
confederates fought to keep blacks enslaved. and they do have a long history of mass murder as former confederate soldiers is what formed the KKK.
you don't even know your history yet got the nerve to make ridiculous comments like this?
please, keep posting. lets see how ignorant you truly are.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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