My guess is that most of those guys are agnostic at best. hiding behind "praying" is weak. there is a time and place to do everything. I am agnostic. I don't make a scene or spectacle at the diner table when friends, family, coworkers or business associates want a pre-meal prayer. Nor do I do so at funerals. It is called respect.
He gave up his NFL Career, gave up a multi-million dollar contract and volunteered and enlisted in the military and fought in Afganistan after 9-11. He was killed in the of duty at the age of 27
He done more then any of these trash can Browns players that knelt at the flag...they pissed on Pat Tillman's Legacy, not to mention they have pissed on my families legacy and i have a BIG problem with it.
I don't give a damn how many of you are service members or have served, all of you are still alive, my familiy members that died in the line of duty are not so lucky, neither was Pat tillman, and they deserve better then this BS!
there are thousands of other ways they could have protested that would have made a bigger impact and may have actually had some positive results, instead they decided to do this disrespectful nonsense...the the fact they tried to hide it behind prayer just tells me their are all cowards...
Playing devils advocate here, but if you don't care about us who are alive, then why should we care about your feelings whatsoever?
Shout out to your fam that died in service, but YOU didn't serve.
I mean his is honeetly the most idiotic stance I've ever heard. Soldiers died for Americans to have rights, so they should respect the soldiers and not use their rights.
It's ridiculous, straight up.
You want people to stop kneeling for the flag? Then pay attention to what they are bringing awareness to and help solve issues that way they DONT feel the need to kneel anymore.
You want respect because of what your family did, not what YOU did btw, but what others did, yet won't show any respect to people who actually went out there and are using their platform for good.
So if you don't care about my stance as a combat vet, then I don't care about your stance as a civilian. Oh well.
Last edited by Swish; 08/25/1707:36 AM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
It's funny how this wasn't a problem until the military started paying for fake patriotism.
I've been watching sports for years and I don't remember a time when the players weren't on the field during the Anthem.
I can't be certain it goes back to 2009, but the DoD has been paying Professional teams a lot of money for patriotic gestures. Teams certainly don't arrange the surprise troop homecoming out of the kindness of their heart.
I'm not talking about 'gestures', I'm talking about players being on the field for the Anthem.
I understand, I was more or less adding to the overall point Swish was making.
Specifically, as for players not being on the sideline until 2009, here you go...
Rumor holds that NFL players did not stand for the national anthem until the Defense Dept. started paying the league to stage patriotic displays in 2009.
But did you know that until 2009, no NFL player stood for the national anthem?
Hat tip to Slate.com’s Josh Levin for picking this one up:
NO NFL PLAYER STOOD FOR THE NATIONAL ANTHEM UNTIL 2009—BEFORE THEN, THE PLAYERS STAYED IN THE LOCKER ROOM AS THE ANTHEM PLAYED. NFL TEAMS GOT PATRIOTIC IN RECENT YEARS BECAUSE IT WAS GOOD FOR BUSINESS. A 2015 CONGRESSIONAL REPORT REVEALED THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE HAD PAID $5.4 MILLION TO NFL TEAMS BETWEEN 2011 AND 2014 TO STAGE ON-FIELD PATRIOTIC CEREMONIES; THE NATIONAL GUARD SHELLED OUT $6.7 MILLION FOR SIMILAR DISPLAYS BETWEEN 2013 AND 2015.
LOl....I don't care who they were praying to....I think it is all one and the same. My feelin g is that God is all powerful and can manifest in any image to make sense to any person trying to understand God.
As for the protest, I think it stupid, but if players are on a team, they need to do what the team wants. If not, they can protest in the locker until the Anthem is over.
That would be my position as a coach. I have no problem if you feel you can't stand, but you can't run the line during introdutions. It's your choice. I have no problem with that, but if you run on to the field with your team, I expect you to do what is require in order to play.
After the Anthem is over, just walk on out. See if you are cheered or booed.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I also disagree, and am glad you aren't the head coach.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I also disagree, and am glad you aren't the head coach.
Yet you ignore my comments.
Hey, I would have won 4 Superbowls as a head coach or owner.
I was just at Senator Bob Corkers Birthday party. I have known Bob for 25 years. Maybe 30. I told him this country needs a deal maker, and he was the person to do it. I really meant that, and he looked at me long and hard.....he heard me, and Bob is a good man. Trust me when I tell you that. He's a good man.
It's time to put away the BS and start working together .
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Swish........the problem is that these protests are not solving problems. Instead, they are creating further problems.
I know you accuse me of being this or that, but you got me all wrong. I'm saying that we/you/they [I'll let you choose the pronoun] are approaching this the wrong way.
We/you/they have to be smarter. The cause is righteous. The game plan is not.
I'm sick and tired of people trying to tell me that these protest won't work when this country was literally founded on protest.
Just because you don't think it works doesn't mean I have to.
There's never a right way, a right time, or a right method when it comes to protest, especially when it comes to issues that effect minority ethnicities.
And not saying it's you, but it's funny watching people claim that what we're protesting for isn't the right thing to protest about. I don't see people telling the protesters who march for heart disease to shut up and worry about cancer instead, yet it's perfectly ok for others to tell us minorities not to marching for civil rights and instead march for something else?
Screw that. You're wasting your time.
I am a 4 time combat vet, I'm am a son of a combat vet, a grandson of a combat vet, and I am a minority.
I will forever support those who kneel for the flag in order to bring awareness to social injustices that plague our society. Period.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Then don't get bent when other people protest other things that they feel plague our society. Being a 4 time vet and minority does not make your views and opinions of this country and what is going on and more correct or morally superior then that of the next American that does not see things how you do.
As a white male in the US that makes up 36% of the population (less when you factor out gays since they are considered a minority group in and if themselves) it's kinda nice to have minority status and play behind the protection of that card. That is unless you deny math and stats.
I'm sick and tired of people trying to tell me that these protest won't work when this country was literally founded on protest.
Just because you don't think it works doesn't mean I have to.
There's never a right way, a right time, or a right method when it comes to protest, especially when it comes to issues that effect minority ethnicities.
And not saying it's you, but it's funny watching people claim that what we're protesting for isn't the right thing to protest about. I don't see people telling the protesters who march for heart disease to shut up and worry about cancer instead, yet it's perfectly ok for others to tell us minorities not to marching for civil rights and instead march for something else?
Screw that. You're wasting your time.
I am a 4 time combat vet, I'm am a son of a combat vet, a grandson of a combat vet, and I am a minority.
I will forever support those who kneel for the flag in order to bring awareness to social injustices that plague our society. Period.
Yep. Imagine the things said to those who supported MLK back in the day. Everybody wanting them to stop those horrible protest and just learn their place. #rightsideofhistory
I'm sick and tired of people trying to tell me that these protest won't work when this country was literally founded on protest.
Just because you don't think it works doesn't mean I have to.
There's never a right way, a right time, or a right method when it comes to protest, especially when it comes to issues that effect minority ethnicities.
And not saying it's you, but it's funny watching people claim that what we're protesting for isn't the right thing to protest about. I don't see people telling the protesters who march for heart disease to shut up and worry about cancer instead, yet it's perfectly ok for others to tell us minorities not to marching for civil rights and instead march for something else?
Screw that. You're wasting your time.
I am a 4 time combat vet, I'm am a son of a combat vet, a grandson of a combat vet, and I am a minority.
I will forever support those who kneel for the flag in order to bring awareness to social injustices that plague our society. Period.
"bring awareness to social injustices that plague our society" is a bit of an overstatement.
The main thing that started this whole protest were a few deaths of black men at the hands of police. And I'll admit that, depending on which specific case we're talking about, the cop was too trigger happy a couple of the times. I don't fault people for having some outrage as that's a natural response.
Some semi-related points:
- How kneeling during the Anthem and disrespecting the flag is related to the players' viewpoint is unclear. The disconnect between the two is so large that it doesn't really make any sense. I wonder if that has led to some of the animosity that we've seen; maybe the players who feel so strongly about this could take a more related approach-- perhaps sharing videos on their social media accounts along with thoughtful explanations of what they see. It's just an idea.
- We're a nation of well over 300,000,000 people, including more than 40,000,000 black people and more than 1,000,000 police officers (of any race). Saying these isolated incidents are social injustices that plague our society is not really accurate.
We have about 400 blacks who are killed by police each year, but the reality is the large majority of those are easily justifiable (shootouts, prevention of active violent crime, etc.) By the time you break it down to blacks who are unjustly killed by police, it breaks down to something on the order of 0.0001-0.00001% or so. These numbers represent 40 or 4 out of 40,000,000-- certainly not perfect by any stretch but also not the widespread phenomenon that some make it out to be.
- I do wonder why there is so much outrage over players kneeling for the Anthem, and not so much over players who beat women, drive drink and kill people, punch people at bars, and things that actually injure and harm people in the real world. Why is there more outrage over somebody who kneels for the Anthem than a player who beats their girlfriend? That doesn't make sense, and I think I've made clear my distaste for the kneeling thing.
- In a more sensible world, the viewpoints I gave above could be expressed without concern for being called a "racist" and tried to be made unemployable. Similarly, those like Colin Kaepernick could express their thoughts without the nastiness directed at them, and we could talk things out like adults. We might even find some common ground on things. I don't think Kaepernick is a bad dude, just a little misguided. Or maybe I'm the misguided one.. who knows.
Instead we'll all just bicker and yell at each other until we learn, if we ever do (probably not.)
But again, there's never gonna be a right method that SOMEBODY isn't gonna complain about.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I'm just saying that MLK had a great plan. We all understood his passion and speaking ability, but what really stood out to me was how he was able to educate people w/out threatening them.
No one can win over the extremists, but thankfully, there are many reasonable people out there who can understand a logical argument. Those are the people you need to win over to invoke change. MLK accomplished that.
I'm just saying that MLK had a great plan. We all understood his passion and speaking ability, but what really stood out to me was how he was able to educate people w/out threatening them.
No one can win over the extremists, but thankfully, there are many reasonable people out there who can understand a logical argument. Those are the people you need to win over to invoke change. MLK accomplished that.
Unfortunately the divide is just going to get wider. Too many people just hear what they want to hear, and then they pick and choose stations and websites that confirm what they want to believe in.
Also as people become more and more desensitized due to modern lifestyle/technology, more and more extreme forms of persuasion/propaganda are needed to outrage people. Ever notice how "racist" just doesn't really cut it anymore? It has to be "neo-nazi" or "white supremacist" now, significantly more loaded terms.
That works to outrage people now, but as they are generally not accurate descriptors of people they are levied against, they too will lose their meaning. I don't know how much further you can go with words so things will probably devolve into further violence. Sad, but probably accurate.
Or take the Russia (non) collusion story. The left pushed that hard for the better part of a year. It was an outrageous story at first, but eventually nobody really cared about it anymore. I haven't heard much about that for a couple weeks now.
The next accusation will probably be even more extreme and probably more outlandish and ridiculous, and that too will contribute to our rapidly growing divide. Sorry to say but the days of MLK style movements are probably a thing of the past.
I'm just saying that MLK had a great plan. We all understood his passion and speaking ability, but what really stood out to me was how he was able to educate people w/out threatening them.
No one can win over the extremists, but thankfully, there are many reasonable people out there who can understand a logical argument. Those are the people you need to win over to invoke change. MLK accomplished that.
He accomplished that after he got shot.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Anybody who thinks that the skin color of a baby born in America has an affect on that baby’s possibility for success and happiness is a filthy racist.
It's funny watching some of these conservatives talk about milk being great, when in reality they'd be the same guys arguing for segregation and trashing his ass if they were adults during the segregation era.
We already have one guy on here who dislikes multiculturalism, so we already know which side he would've took.
And we've had people on here before who argued that the civil rights act is unconstitutional.
But keep playing silly games.
Last edited by Swish; 08/26/1712:39 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Only one looking foolish is you. You didn't refute anything I said, either.
Oh well.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Only one looking foolish is you. You didn't refute anything I said, either.
Oh well.
When one observes a man with a horrible deformity, it is not polite to stare and its best to move on without comment.
You stared long enough at trump so you can't even follow your own advice.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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