DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Hindu Prayer disrupted at Senate

So much for Freedom of Religion - bigots.

wow...i'm speechless....

This prolly won't mean much to many but being a Hindu it sort of hits home...
Never thought this could happen at such a high level in the gov....i would love to know who was yelling in the background..

I would say that this was not the christian thing to do, but I know better. This is why we have the 1st amendment, so those in the minority have their freedom of religion.

The people that shouted this man down were in the gallery and hopefully not part of the government. I would guess that this prayer was performed to show the religious tollerance in our country. It was a good demonstration.

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This is why we have the 1st amendment, so those in the minority have their freedom of religion.

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Ok, I'm just a tad bit confused... the REASON we have the first amendment is to protect religious prayer before government meetings? That seems to be mildly in conflict with what many have been saying on here lately.....

I will say this, those who attempted to pray over the Hindu prayer, all they are doing is driving a nail in their own coffin... it is disruptions like that that will get all pre-session prayer banned from all government meetings. Which would be sad.

They should have sat quietly, they could have prayed silently to themselves if the wanted to...

I am curious as to why this nevada government chose to have a Hindu prayer... do they have a Hindu member? Do they have a large concentration of Hindu citizens? Just curious....

Putting the topic at hand aside for just a second - I love the way Indians speak english.

It would make no difference who or are why they selected anyone or any faith to lead a prayer.

The pure intolerance shown by others shines a very poor light and suggests rudeness and intolerance on the part of the Christian faith by members of our own government.Which is against everything our government stands for,is supposed to honor and respect. Freedom of Religious expression.

It's quite unfair to what I feel is the vast majority of Christians. Because I honestly believe most self professed Christians would not have acted this way.

But it is IMO something becoming more previlant in our nation and not at all becoming for a nation who professes religious tolerance and freedom.

JMHO

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It would make no difference who or are why they selected anyone or any faith to lead a prayer.

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No, it really doesn't matter WHY they did it.. but can't I be curious about it?

And it would be my guess that those who disrupted were probably aware of the Hindu prayer and attended the meeting for the sole purpose of being disruptive... Not unlike those who attend political speeches to heckle... Obviously these people didn't ask themselves the question, What would Jesus do?... because if they did and the answer they came up with... Go heckle the Hindu prayer leader.... then they are way off base...

My guess is that even if they had busted out the ole 'WWJD?' question, they would have been even more encouraged because they were quoting scripture, the parts that talk about "no other God before me".

From that, I conclude that they would have done exactly as they did out of their own religious extremism, and that their presence *may* be because they feel they DID ask 'WWJD?' and their zeal led them to this answer. Let's face it, unless you've got a bit more than the normal amount of zeal going, you don't go around quoting scripture, ever.

Good points.. hadn't thought of it that way.

I would like to see what would happen if someone starting a assembly of the Iranian government with the Lords Prayer.

On second hand, I wouldn't want to see that.

That's very sad and as some have said it's just the kind of thing that makes people want to remove God and prayer from public places. As far as I'm concerned there is only one God(even if there are many manifestations of that one God) and it doesn't matter what you call Him/Her/It it's still the divine supreme force that is behind, around and in everything. I believe that to disrespect the way another person choses to worship, epecially when the attempt it made share that devotion, is NOT what that force that I call God would have us do. It's very sad indeed.

My only point is it was 2 people talking out of line. Not some madman entering from side stage to remove a head.

WASHINGTON: Christian activists briefly disrupted a Hindu invocation in the U.S Senate on Thursday, marring a historic first for the chamber and showing that fundamentalism is present and shouting in the U.S too.

Invited by the Senate to offer Hindu prayers in place of the usual Christian invocation, Rajan Zed, a Hindu priest from Reno, Nevada, had just stepped up to the podium for the landmark occasion when three protesters, said to belong to the Christian Right anti-abortion group Operation Save America, interrupted him by loudly asking for God's forgiveness for allowing the ''false prayer'' of a Hindu in the Senate chamber.

"Lord Jesus, forgive us father for allowing a prayer of the wicked, which is an abomination in your sight," the first protester shouted. "This is an abomination. We shall have no other gods before You."

Democratic Senator Bob Casey, who was serving as the presiding officer for the morning, immediately asked the sergeant-at-arms to restore order. But they continued to protest as they were headed out the door by the marshals, shouting, "No Lord but Jesus Christ!" and "There's only one true God!"

Zed, sporting a saffron robe, a rudraksh mala round his neck, and a prominent tilak on his forehead, then nervously went through the invocation chosen from the Rig Veda and Bhagavad Gita.

"Let us pray," he began, "We meditate on the transcendental glory of the deity supreme, who is inside the heart of the earth, inside the life of the sky and inside the soul of heaven. May he stimulate and illuminate our minds.

"Lead us from the unreal to real, from darkness to light, and from death to immortality. May we be protected together. May we be nourished together. May we work together with great vigor. May our study be enlightening."

The sentiments were evidently lost on the fundamentalists.


The organization Operation Save America later issued a statement confirming that Ante Pavkovic, Kathy Pavkovic, and Kristen Sugar were all arrested in the chambers of the United States Senate "as that chamber was violated by a false Hindu god."

"The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the One True God, Jesus Christ," the statement said, adding, "This would never have been allowed by our Founding Fathers."

The Hindu prayer was also questioned by a Christian historian who maintained that since Hindus worship multiple gods, the prayer will be completely outside the American paradigm, flying in the face of the American motto "One Nation Under God."

According to a Senate Chaplain Office communiqué, the purpose of the opening prayer is to seek God on behalf of, and for the Senators and the prayer should affirm our rich heritage as a Nation "under God."

"In Hindu (sic), you have not one God, but many, many, many, many, many gods," the Christian historian David Barton maintained. "And certainly that was never in the minds of those who did the Constitution, did the Declaration [of Independence] when they talked about Creator -- that's not one that fits here because we don't know which creator we're talking about within the Hindu religion."


But the disruption was deplored by the organization Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which said the incident showed the intolerance of many Religious Right activists.

"They say they want more religion in the public square, but it's clear they mean only their religion." Americans United Executive Director Rev. Barry W. Lynn, said.

"America is a land of extraordinary religious diversity, and the Religious Right just can't seem to accept that fact," Lynn said. "I don't think the Senate should open with prayers, but if it's going to happen, the invocations ought to reflect the diversity of the American people."

According to US Senate website, "...Throughout the years, the United States Senate has honored the historic separation of Church and State, but not the separation of God and State...all sessions of the Senate have been opened with prayer, strongly affirming the Senate’s faith in God as Sovereign Lord of our Nation..."

Typically, the Senate Chaplain delivers the opening invocation, but sometimes guest chaplains are invited from all over the country to read the prayer.

Although priests from other faiths such as Islam and Judaism have delivered prayers in the Congress, this is the first time Hindu invocations were delivered on the Senate floor since its formation in 1789.

Zed said he wanted to recite the mantras in Sanskrit, but the Senate Chaplain’s Office communiqué clearly stated, "It must be given exclusively and entirely in the English language."

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So it's important to point out these aren't members of our gov't but instead protesters. I still believe they should've been removed after the 1st time they interrupted.

link

Never said they weren't out of line.

I guess I am at the point in life where I don't believe tolerance and desegregation works, so why even invite potential problems?

People are going to think what they think and hang with the people they want to hang with.

JMO.

I am a Christian, and I think opening prayer is stupid. Why have one person pray for EVERYONE!? I mean, give the people a moment of silence to pray to who they want and be done with it. How can one person know exactly what everyone wants to pray for?

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marring a historic first for the chamber and showing that fundamentalism is present and shouting in the U.S too.

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too? fundamentalism is present and shouting in the U.S. TOO? Like where else? Like the places where people are stoned to death and imprisoned for their beliefs? It was a minor disruption at a meeting for goodness sake... Let's not get all carried away ...

Maybe they meant fundamentalism like killing doctors, bombing clinics , protesting at funerals etc...don't think that it wasn't a fair comparisson because it was.

wow i feel bad for the guy, there was no need for that shouting.

Sort of like how possession of marijuana and double-premeditated homicide are both considered "crimes"? I think I follow you.

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When you just slightly bump a car in front of you leaving only a few scratches,it's a "traffic accident".

Now it's not fair to compare that to a head on colision at 90 miles per hour in which four people die.

But in the end,are they not both considered to be a "traffic accident"?

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Since you enjoy picking apart my analogies, I'll do the same for yours... one is a $100 fine, the other is life for 4 counts of manslaughter...... one is verbally promoting your religion in a rude way, the other is killing thousands of innocent people.... if you would like to give them the same label, then so be it... but they are completely different things...

Because by your analogy, somebody who grows or buys a little pot is a criminal, just like the rapist or the murderer.... because in the end, are they not both considered criminals?

Beat you.

Exactly.. "fundamentalism" is nothing more than a strict set of beliefs.. so to use that word in conjunction with somebody who is just rude.. but in the same sentence subtly compare it to others who commit heinous acts of violence.... really doesn't seem right does it?

'Fundamentalism' is a buzzword that has been sort of co-opted to describe the religious fanatacism present in the Middle East...but it's really 'a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles'. It was once associated with Protestants and now with Muslims...but this was a fine example of it. Fundamentalism, as I see it, is not willing to comprimise...it can be in the form of killing and violence, as we've seen in the past or present, or it can be present in incivility.

For example...I've seen people who are hard-nosed atheists...me, when I'm at a wedding or a dinner or something and a prayer is invoked, I generally don't do anything, just bow my head or something. But there's blowhards out there who will make a show of not participating, or ask that 'under God' be removed, or make a remark when someone says 'God bless you'...and that's a fundamentalist principle.

This was a case of incivility...I feel bad for that guy.

I think the word "fundamentalist" or "fundamentalism" in and of itself is not improper. Now if you said "fundamental extremists" I would feel that would be quite unfair. Or "fundamental terrorist extremists" would be downright innexcusable.

Just like if you called someone smoking pot as commiting a "felony". Or someone who sold pot as being a "violent criminal" would not be fair nor accurate.

But IMO-you stated rather accurately to the meaning of the term "fundamentalism" did you not? And I would submit that it holds true in both cases. But yes,to a far different degree.

JMHO

maybe it's semantics... but in my own mind there is fundamentalism and then there is extremism... somewhere in between is a line... maybe the line is at incivility, maybe it's at violence.. not sure there is a hard and fast rule for it...

Just as the person who brought up killing doctors, bombing clinics and protesting funerals... see, I wouldn't put them all in the same category... two are extremely violent, one is just rude.... two are obvious cases of extremism in my mind, the other is probably close, somewhere in the gray area between fundamentalism and extremism...

Oh great, now everybody knows my real name is "Ante"

Is your last name "Em"?

Could be. Was it the heart, or brains you were trying to get

I doubt either.

But I smoked my brains out at a Heart concert one time!

Can someone actually give me a link to the video? the video doesn't work for me...when i typed in hindu prayer in youtube i got this video about a min long of a indian dude saying the "prayer" and someone yelling the background is that it? if so....I would just like to make a point to everyone here....

As being the only Hindu on the board...i can say this that i've never heard of this "prayer" the dude spoke in the video i watched....maybe it's lost in translation...but i don't know of any prayer like that...