DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Trying to Trade Haden

So anyone supporting the cut is wrong, but we'll find out if he can still play this year? I'd argue nobody knows who's right or wrong but we can watch his play this year to find out the verdict.

JLC has actually been right about the Browns many times. The fans just don't like his reports, so they make fun of him. Just like they did when he wrote about the dysfunction in the FO when Farmer was here.

Was anyone saying he should be "cut" before he was cut?

I thought we were still on the hook for everything we owe him this year, minus 3 million and what he signs for with his new team. So if he was making 11 million, we owe him 8. If he signs with Pittsburgh for 3 million, we owe him 5

So, you are saying Rappoport is incorrect?

So since he has been injured, the smart thing to do is send him packing before we see how he can play when he is healed to save a little over one million dollars in cap space?

Brilliant move!

Just watch how everyones opinions start to change now that the FO made a move that almost nobody would have a approved of before they made it.

Oh that's right, we have so much talent and depth at the CB position.

Do you read this board? lol

I know, but getting them to admit it would be like pulling teeth.

Pit, I think Punch is a fair poster. There are many others who are not. Heck, one guy said that keeping Haden would have meant we were tanking the season. And another poster actually liked that comment. LOL

We don't save money this year, as his cap hit is pretty much the same as it would of been had we kept him. Over the long-haul we do save money.

It also frees up cap room for next year if we want to go after someone like Garoppolo or Cousins.

Thanks.

He usually is. I just respond on a case by case basis depending on their opinion and my opinion of it. There are a few posters that I make an exception to, but they are very few.

Sad to see Joe go, been a class act. Ive only managed to see the Tampa game so far and I'm no CB expert so I cannot comment on where he stood in the depth chart. However, we don't have experienced depth at the position. I fully expect us to pick up a DB after cuts now.

I will say this - from a meagre sample size, I thought our secondary "looked" better in the TB game. If that translates to regular season, who knows. I also think our FO has made more good moves than bad so there must have been some serious thinking behind it. History will tell us if it was valid.

Source: Steelers emerge as favorite to sign veteran CB Joe Haden

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20505...ource-told-espn

The Pittsburgh Steelers are the favorites to sign veteran cornerback Joe Haden, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Haden, 28, was released Wednesday morning by the Cleveland Browns. He is not subject to waivers and is free to sign with another team after 4 p.m. ET on Wednesday.

Other teams expressing interest in Haden are the New Orleans Saints and Kansas City Chiefs, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter and Josina Anderson.

The Dallas Cowboys also have some interest in Haden, but there is concern over the price it will take to sign him and his health, according to ESPN's Todd Archer and Anderson.

"Tons of interest in him," Haden's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, told Schefter. "He will have a new deal with another team by tomorrow afternoon."

Haden was due to be paid $11.1 million this season. The Browns approached Haden about taking a pay cut but he did not agree to it, a source told ESPN's Pat McManamon. The Browns then sought a trade but ultimately released Haden when they found no partner, a source said.

Haden, who was Cleveland's first-round pick in 2010, has fought through injuries the past two seasons. He missed 11 games in 2015 with a finger injury and a concussion. In 2016, he missed three games and played through two groin issues that required postseason surgery.

In a statement posted on his Instagram account on Wednesday morning after his release, Haden expressed optimism about his future.

Haden, who last went to the Pro Bowl in 2014, was also set to make $11.2 million and $10.4 million in 2018 and '19.

Releasing Haden will cost the Browns $3.2 million in cap space this season and $3.2 million next season. He signed a five-year contract extension in May 2014.

"We want to thank Joe for all he has done for this organization both on and off the field," Browns executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown said in a statement. "He has been a great teammate and a true asset to the Cleveland community. These are very difficult decisions, we have the utmost respect for Joe and in my eyes, he will always be a Cleveland Brown."

Haden hasn't played good ball in a couple years. Everyone bitches about him during the season but then he's a hero in the offseason.... I don't know if cutting him was smart or not but I'm not going to jump ship and cry for firing everyone over it. I can't remember the last time Joe looked like a top corner. I wouldn't have been surprised if Haden played the nickel this year. I sure wouldn't have put him on the opponents #1 WR anymore. There will be some corners released at the final cut. Hopefully, we will sign someone and shore up that secondary.

I get the feeling that cutting Haden might of been a goodwill gesture and/or possibly a request by Haden himself.

Honestly, Haden has not been that good and his contract is a bit of an albatross. He's likely not in any long-term plans for the team so the option of keeping him on as a high-priced backup doesn't really help the team over the long-haul. We would be better off chopping the contract now, and having that cap space next year to sign a free-agent that might help us. By cutting him now, we're giving him time to sign on with another team and get onto a roster before the season starts.

As I said, Haden would be ripped in every Gameday and postgame threads. He's slow, he's getting beaten all the time on 3rd down, he can't guard anyone or he's hurt. While that doesn't translate to "please trade/cut him now", but it's pretty clear most on the board thought he wasn't helping this team, especially when you consider the cost.

I liked the guy a lot, but if the team was watching with us, he wasn't playing any better than last year. Just because they're under the cap, should they keep him? I didn't mention it, but someone said we'll be looking for the best corner that's going to be cut since we're #1 on the waiver wire.

If Haden was truly the 3rd or 4th best corner on the team currently, is that truly a bad move?

Again, they asked him to take a pay cut and stay, he refused.

I'm not defending the team just to defend them, I'm going by what you all have said the past two years. He's hurt, he's not on the field, he can't cover like he used to and he's getting paid like a #1 corner.

He'll sign with someone and we'll all see what he has left. I don't think this was a case of the FO simply ranking players by pay and trying to cut them to save money. They know his injury history, they know his metrics when he's targeted and they know what they think he's worth based on those two things. I think it's a straight business/analytics decision with a cold-hearted view to his loyalty to Cleveland, but that's the game today.

Hmmmmmm.........I'm confused by all the different numbers that I've been reading on this thread.

My instincts tell me that this was a money move. Not sure if I'm right, but that is what makes sense.

It's a money move ...

But it's not a "cheap owner" money move. Unless he doesn't bother filling up the cap space for the next couple seasons, almost all money moves in the NFL are about freeing up cap space to sign better players.

Punch, some people have criticized him. And I am one of them. However, I also remember getting reamed over and over again for criticizing him.

So, while you may have read posters criticizing him, he also got a lot of love, too.

And I will ask this again: How many posters said we should "cut" him? Were there any on this thread before he got cut?

Seems to me that this is another example of posters defending the FO no matter what.

This is another interesting angle. If this team thinks we're a year away from competing and Joe isn't playing well now, isn't it best to move on right now and let him find a winner while he still has time left?

Who knows, maybe we find a nice piece that can play about as well as him, is 4-5 years younger and we can retain him for the future?

I get that you (Pitt) may not agree with me, that's cool. I'm just going by what most say about him on this board.

As for myself, I'm not really speaking in terms of long range plans. CB is a position we are pretty weak in.

Now I can't predict how well Joe will play, but what I can say is I'm sure he'll play much better than an injured, banged up Joe Haden.

What's hard for me to support is cutting a veteran player who is now healthy at a position of weakness. When you look at all the money we have to pay him to cut him, keeping him would have been very cheap.

You see, my belief is you never make a position of weakness even weaker. If Haden wasn't in their future plans, that's not an issue to me. My issue is you don't cut Joe until you address the CB position to the point letting him go would be less damaging.

So the Browns free up 15.2 million over the next two years, to go towards resigning or signing new talent.

5 picks in the 1st two rounds of the 2018 Draft to find a future star CB.

It is a money move, but not without aforethought and planning. Joe is not part of the future plans of building a young core that will play together for a few years.

I am just thankful that we still have a Joe. #73.

Fair point.

I don't think anyone was asking to cut him (I re-read this thread), but most were okay trading him, even if we got little in return. Either way, he'd be off the team.

If the team tried to trade him and nobody bit on the contract, we were left with two options then:

1. Restructure
2. Cut

He refused on #1, so we went with option #2.

What's interesting, he's going to take a big paycut anyway. Nobody is going to give him $11M this season (or whatever he was going to get). So, if he was getting less no matter what, why not accept less to stay here?

I'm not putting this on Haden now, like he's the bad guy. Like I said, I really liked him. Heck, I'd still buy a Haden jersey today, assuming it's around $40. I think the Browns saw his output based on the paycheck and wanted a re-do, Haden and his agent said, "no way, just release me".

I think it kind of works for both parties. Joe gets to sign on with a contender and play a backup role on the cheap and we then pick up the best corner off waivers, unless we go WR first. If we do find the best corner off waivers, we shouldn't be that far behind where we are right now, assuming Joe was going to be the 4th corner anyway, right? Unless we're, you and me, are just pissed we lost "Joe Haden" the personality.

I don't get this ... the 32 mill number is a pipe dream number .. that was the total left all that really matte3rw i the gauranteed ...

From what i can tell ... and I could be wrong ....

We have to eat about 11 mill and saving 4 mill to cut him .... so looking at it that way ... its not about the money ... im not sure why he was cut ... i have never been a haden fan ... ever .. always thought he was way overrated on here ... and i think his skills have diminished and think he is not very good and houldn't be starting for us .... but i have no clue how he isn't the 3rd or 4th best corner on this team .... hell were so weak he may be the 2nd best ...

He's not that good anymore ... but cutting him makes no sense to me ... NONE ... not to save a measly 4 mill ...

Maybe we got some youngins playing better ball than we think ... who knows .... for 4 mill ... he was a keeper .... obviously thats if my numbers are right ...

I believe it was out of respect we released him. He was outplayed by BBC. it really wasn't close. You cant move him to the slot because he just doesn't have the quick twitch hips to hang with speedy guys. Hell he lost 2 full yards in under 15 to Odell. You stretch that to 20 and he would no longer be in the camera angle.

Even this last game, you see Joe trailing 5 yards behind the receiver. Good luck to joe hope he lands somewhere and gets a lot of guarantee money.

I am not sure I'm buying the narrative that says the Browns were trying to do Joe a favor.

First of all, the guy has a rep and he would have found a team to play for no matter when he was cut.

Secondly, there is this from the article that Vambo posted:



Earlier today, I read the FO thread and Pryor was accused of being a "me" player because he left.

Then a guy like Haden gets cut and people say it's a good move.

LOL........perspective is an interesting thing.

Yeah, it's puzzling, but we should be able to see what the "truth" is when we see Haden play in 2017. If he's deflecting/picking off passes left and right, we were crazy wrong. If he's playing deep on the depth chart, hurt or not playing well, then the Browns made a "smart" move.

Still hurts to not have him on the team and supporting Cleveland anymore.

.

Only place it hurts at all is in the locker. BTW it was a favor as they cut him now he has a much better chance to sign. After cut day the market is gonna have a lot of young corners he will have to compete with. Not saying they are good but I don't think Joe is very good anymore either.

If the steelers sign him, they get the inside scoop on our D.

I read Dallas is lurking as well.

Do you think that we should be expecting to see that when we didn't really save a lot of money by cutting him?

If the figures we see are to be believed, we saved at most 4 mil. by cutting him. Do you believe that an NFL CB can be signed for 4 mil. that could play the way you described? Because in actuality, that's all that it would have cost us to keep him.

And that's the big question here. We all know Haden has been playing injured and not healthy the past couple of seasons. And even if he lost a step, if you look at CB pay across the league, a healthy Haden that has lost a step is a pretty good bargain at 4 mil. Surely a healthy Haden is better than an injured Haden so I'm not so sure why people insist on pointing out his play over the last couple of years as some gauge to what his actual playing ability is.

Well, he's cut.

We'll probably find out soon what other teams think he's worth.

That's fair.

I think without question they have clear cut goal and a way to go about achieving that goal when building a team. Whether or not we agree or like it is another issue.

I don't like trading or releasing some of our well known talent.... kinda goes back to the Kosar move, it wasn't popular but it was the right thing to do.

Over these last two seasons... surely it can't be a ton if not much at all.

It's crazy that his contract was so bad that no one was willing to touch him. Now that he's a free agent, everyone is chomping at the bit. I'm not sure what the FO could've done to trade him, but I wish they could have. It does make losing a local celeb a little more frustrating.

The money is so confusing ... heres one i just read .... if this is the case ... we didn't cut him because of money ...

Cutting Haden leaves the Browns with $7.3 million in dead money this year and another $3.6 million in 2018. $4 million of his salary is guaranteed and will be paid by the Browns unless he signs with another team, which should happen pretty quickly. Whatever he signs for with another team will offset the Browns obligation to him and the Browns will receive a salary cap credit next year.

According to this were on the hook for 7.3 this year with potentially 4 mill more depending on what he signs for elsewhere ... then were on the hook for 3.6 million next year ...

This was not a money cut .. must be a "out with the old, in with the new" cut ...

Not a fan of it ... oh well ... nuttin i can do about it ...

Steelers Emerge as Favorites to Sign CB Joe Haden

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20505...ource-told-espn

He will go to Pittsburgh and knowing he is going to a winning team will motivate him back to his old Pro Bowl form...if he signs with the Steelers expect a big day outta Haden on opening day...dude will be geeked and pumped for his game against us...

I don't think it is a money move, so much as it is a value move. Apparently they didn't think his performance merited his contract.

I still don't really agree with it, but in the context of maximizing value it kind of makes sense. He was "under performing." He was costing shutdown corner money, but not really providing shutdown play. I felt he had an opportunity to rebound pretty well this season, though, since he's finally healthy again. Maybe they don't think he'll be able to stay healthy.

If he was legitimately the 4th corner in Williams' eyes, I can't see him playing a whole lot of kick coverage. If he was 4th in the pecking order, he wouldn't have seen the field a ton. I'm not sure how much Williams actually uses 4 corners. I'm vaguely recalling he uses a decent bit of Safeties covering the slot.

Still would have liked to have waited till a better replacement was in place. Try to work a trade. Also, not sure what this does to the team psyche. He was kind of the public face of the team, and all the guys seemed to genuinely like him. If he was better than guys still on the team, what does that say to people still here?

Hate seeing him gone, but I understand it...