DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Trying to Trade Haden

Im surprised by your answer.
For me i certainly would rather have those CBs over the current version of Haden.

And when was the last time Joe effectively covered a teams #1 WR?
I hate to use a 1 play example but iirc you yourself commented on Joe getting toasted by Brandon Marshall? And he's a #2 WR that more of possession then vertical WR and Joe still got toasted.

Not bashing the guy because I love the player that Joe was ~3 years ago but that player likely only exists in the past.

I wish Joe all the luck in the world and on top of that I wish him good health. But this move makes perfect sense to me.

If Haden is as bad as you say, why was there so much interest in him and why was he signed for such a lucrative deal?

Which of our corners are better than him?

McCourty was benched last year for a Tenn secondary that got torched.

Taylor was traded for almost nothing by Miami.

BBC was cut by the Jags.

Let's get real here. I always thought Joe was overrated by the fans on this board, but he isn't as bad as those guys. It's a money move by a cheap organization.

Cheap organizations don't pay $16 million for second round picks.

Cheap organizations are constantly at the bottom of payroll list year in and year out.

Y'all are getting weird again. Debating things that really aren't debatable.

what happened there Vers is that our coaches are so good they turned those CB's you mentioned into much better players

Are you honestly saying that last year and up to right now you think Joe performed better then any of the current CBs mentioned?

To me the film clearly shows different.

Teams are motivated by their own situations that govern there decisions and however much they are paying him I doubt he's making the 11.whatever he was gonna make here.

Your last sentence you say- Joe isnt as 'bad' as those guys...what guys are u talking about? Last I thought it was clear that Joe wasn't as good and that opinion is backed up PFF and FOB.

Jimmy Haslam bought the Browns in 2012 (right before the season started). The Browns ranking in cash spent on players since then:

2013: 26th
2014: 3rd
2015: 21st
2016: 32nd
2017: 3rd

(It's hard to credit Haslam with 2012 because he bought the team after it was already put together, but the team was ranked 13th in spending that year.)

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cash/2012/

2013 and 2016 were both years in which massive rebuilds were started.

Also, Haslam is still paying like three full coaching staffs (Chud, Pettine, Jackson).

So Joe is a Steeler now?

Yes

Man, that really sucks...more so because I liked Joe. I thought his skills were diminishing, but I always respected him as a person. He was always good to the fans. Never a bad word or deed from him, IIRC.

Also, what's with the Steelers picking up our ex-corners lately??? I'm conflicted. I hope this deal works out for the Steelers as much as Gilbert did...but that would wish ill upon Joe, and I don't want that.

wow, we cut him and he goes straight to the steelers.

i'm sure he can cover any one of our WR's, watch him shut our guys down.

Our guys shut their own selves down.

True. maybe coleman will step up.

It's a tough pill to swallow, that's for sure.

I hope so...if there is any "type" of receiver we have who Haden typically struggles with, it would be Coleman, but he certainly needs to show he's worth the pick in the normal season.

Whoever goes up against him better start perfecting their double-move game.

We have the third highest payroll in the NFL?

Those 3 guys might be better than an injured Joe Haden, but he's not injured now. They'd better be better than a guy playing with 2 tears in his groin.

This year I haven't seen any body with great coverage. The other guys may have made more splash plays, but I think they've had more favorable situations.

I also think some of Joe's "getting beat" is him passing off WRs and covering the RB releasing to the flat as is his assignment at times. There might also be instances where he is in outside technique making sure the "ball doesn't go over his head in a hurry" and he'll "get beat" by the in-breaking/crossing stuff.

I think the tales of his demise have been greatly exaggerated.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cash/

Can someone summarize how we benefit from this?

I mean, Haden will be in a Steelers uniform opening day.

How does THROW LONG feel about the news that Joe Haden has been waived by the Cleveland Browns and has signed a deal with the Steelers?

Do you know how Clark W. Griswold responded when he found out he wasn't going to get his Christmas bonus in the Movie " Christmas Vacation"

( If anybody has any last minute Christmas gift ideas for me, I want (Whoever is responsible) and I want you to go take him from his home on ? lane and bring him here, so I can tell him what a lousy... he is.

Halelujah! Where's the Tylenol! ")

The team valued the cap space we gained over Joe Haden's potential performance on the field.

Ultimatley it was a money move. We didn't want to pay him 11.2 mil a season. The numbers you see in this last post are correct. We have to pay the guranteed money... The 11.2 is on the salary cap books this year because we didn't cut him by June 10th, or whatever the date is, so that counts as dead money. In our case, it doesn't matter. We have plenty of space.

Other teams against the cap couldn't cut Joe now, and then use the 7.2 mil to go out and sign another player or two.

So it really wasn't a money move other than we didn't feel he was worth the price any longer.

Hmmmm.......but this link says we have the second most cap space available:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2017/

I was unable to find overall grades for the players for this preseason, I could only find highest grades for any given week. That said, based on what I saw with my eyes, and what I can find in my research, both McCourty and Taylor have been better than Haden in the 3 preseason games, and BBC has been very visible.

I'm purely speculating, but could it have something to do with the rollover?

Each team basically has their own salary cap because of cap rollover. Heckert and Banner started us off strong with a great cap and we have been able to maintain it.

Bingo.

Second preseason game? LMAO


This is shaping up like the other "debates" we had on here where y'all told me I was so clueless.

I think this sums it up nicely.

I'll add if the preseason and the last two years were any indication it was assumed that performance on the field would be below average.

I'm not sure why people think this is purely a money move. There have been several signs of underperformance since TC...GWs initial comments, GWs most recent comments, then his actual play in the games.

I'd agree. To think this is just a money move is incorrect IMO. It was everything combined. We tried to restructure his deal so his performance matched his compensation, he declined, we said bye.

Truthfully, he's been below average for 2years

I have been saying that about the Osweiler deal for a long time. We had to start spending money, so we took on the contract to get a 2nd round pick. It was a good move. Might as well get something of value rather than pay a fine to the NFL or NFLPA to meet a cap minimum.

The cap minimum is a farce and there is no real penalty.

Show me anytime I called you clueless.

I think that it was a combo money/injury/play slippage thing.

No one can say, honestly, that Haden hasn't slipped in the past few years. Now part of that slippage has been due to injuries, but it is slippage nonetheless. He is the highest paid DB, and one of the highest paid players on the team, and he hasn't performed like it. He makes as much as Joe Thomas, for goodness sake ... and no one can say that he is worth that ... at least not with a straight face.

I like Joe, and I really loved the way he has stood up for Cleveland throughout the years. However, he reached a point where he was our 3rd or 4th best CB, and was paid well above that. I think that the Browns want to get a look at younger players, and releasing Haden allows them to do so.I do not think that they wanted to put him on the bench while Boddy-Calhoun, for example, played in his place.

It should be very evident to all that this front office is building this team with youth ..... and if an older, max salary type player isn't able to show that he is deserving of that deal., he's gone.

I will add that I am astonished that we were able to get a 5th for Erving. I figured that he'd be the guy to get cut.

Being beat out by those guys says volumes to me. Just becasue the Steelers overpaid isn't making Joe better than he was. Like a lot of you guys say.... the tape tells the story. He is a number 2 corner but more likely relegated to nickel at best. Now if that's your angle for him to stay I'm with you. Other than that why didn't teams jump to trade for him? If anyone was willing to give much we would be taken it over releasing him I would think. I loved the Joe of 3 years ago just not the one we saw the last couple years. He was bad.

Anything to back that up? I can agree the cap is a farce and it keeps being increased when high profile teams start pushing the upper limits, but the low end? Show me something my friend. Even at a older age, I am willing to learn.

Oh, the irony. He must have really ticked somebody off (or maybe agent did). Just seems so abrupt. Wish him the best of the rest of his career. Just not against the Browns.

Now he is another guy to beat. Maybe he couldn't learn second position. . . .

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/3/9/8...9-cash-spending