DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Cuts

Calling me a jerk sounds like name calling. But, don't worry. I will not report your post. Have a nice night.

Anyone else excited to have a kicker (Zane Gonzalez) who can kick it out of the endzone basically whenever he wants?

I am.

Hmmmmm............I actually thought Parkey or whatever his name is outperformed Gonazalez this preseason. But, I figured that he wouldn't win the job since Sashi [the business lawyer] drafted the dude.

So, no?

So no, what?

I am just saying that Parkey kicked better than Gonazalez. Is that a problem for you?

You're not excited to have a kicker that can kick the ball out of the back of the endzone? That was all I said.



Not really. I was really just trying to get the thread back on track.

I think almost every kicker can boot the ball out of the end zone.

I am not bad-mouthing our new kicker..........I'm just saying that it seemed to me that Parkey had the better preseason. And yes, the coaches saw more than I did.

But, given what I have seen from Sashi, I am not sure that I trust him. He is a corporate lawyer trying to win the favor of an impatient owner. Cutting a kicker who was drafted might not fit into that platform.

I was mainly thinking about Travis Coons who had a very weak leg.

I think Zane Gonzalez will be fine. If not we cut him and pick up someone like Cody Parkey (or maybe even Cody Parkey himself).

I am,...had him in all my mock drafts.

We got rid of kickers in my league.

Ah,...I can't wait to see him kickoff in Denver.

John Greco is no superstar so while it's unfortunate to see him leave the team I'm not that upset about it. The guys running the team seem to be planning for long term. Planning for the 2018 Browns, the 2019 Browns, the 2020 Browns. Last year, we all know they didn't try to put a winner on the field. This year, just a little over a month ago at the end of July, Haslam was saying the Browns should be better this year but may not be a winner. I'm sure he knows the game plan. Rookie QB, tons of young players. They are still stockpiling assets after years of being run into the ground by Ray Farmer, Holmgren, Phil Savage. All those wasted Draft picks. So what does keeping guys like Joe Haden and John Greco do in the short term? Maybe we go 6-10 instead of 4-12? Or 7-9 instead of 5-11? But what is the cost? We have to use a roster spot to keep them and they have to be paid. I'm sure portions if not all still may need to be paid. But if there's anything saved in cash, that means they will have more cap room they can roll forward to next year. And they just used cap space to buy a second round pick. So that cap space does have value. Greco and Haden are older players. Having them off the team in a year that we probably aren't going to win the super bowl gives the Browns a chance to evaluate younger and cheaper guys and get them critical playing time and develop them. If we do end up going 5-11 instead of 7-9 because those guys are gone well we end up with a better spot in the draft and a better position on waiver wire next year. So we may be setting ourselves up for a better position to win a super bowl in 2019 or 2020 or 2021 by dumping these kinds of players now. Short term pain for long term results. I think that once they get this system better in place and have a good package of players on the team maybe these types of moves will not seem so painful. It's not like other teams don't make moves either. The Pats traded us Jamie Collins last year! Also, I couldn't really care less if Sashi is a lawyer or a doctor or a janitor or a teacher. I've seen what "football guys" can do to this team and it can be ugly. I have a feeling Sashi is acting as a decision maker after bringing in input from the whole leadership team including Hue, Gregg, Jimmy/Dee, Berry, etc.

Sad to see Greco go, he was a brilliant pick up and has been arguably one of our best OL.

As for the decision making - I thought it was a collaborative process with Sashi deciding on any potential disagreements? I think I've read / heard that on here in the past?

As for the OL - Drango played decently for a rookie (IMHO) and although not at Greco's level I guess the FO or Staff (or both) felt he had room to progress as the primary backup at OG? Just my musing. We also have Reiter / Martin to back up the C / OG slots (Not sure if either can play OG ifI'm honest but the trio gives cover across the interior). My main concern is RT - as per last year. I hope Coleman can improve but it would not surprise me if we have identified a few OTs which may be on the bubble. However, they would need to be on the upswing, career wise, and not sure decent, progressive tackles grow on trees.

Good luck to all our cut players - it's a living to make and I hope they catch on somewhere.

Yep. Drango, Martin and Reiter are locks now.

Greco had to be a combination of Age, Injury and Contract.

I'm watching which 2 of these 4 make it at WR.

Leslie
Hall
Higgins
Payton

Praying for the 1st 2.

Sorry to see Greco go.

To me you have to look at past performance v future performance. When I look at that, the best is behind him. I myself would have kept him, assuming his foot is good. That is also another factor we don't know. Another factor is some here assume that the coaching staff has zero input. I assume they do have some input. All along Brown has said it would be a collaborative effort, but he would be the tie breaker. I don't think all of that has been thrown out the window. Maybe Hue was on board, maybe not. I don't know. I wasn't in the room when it was discussed. I can say that I am confident that Hue isn't finding out about these cuts by reading the wire like we are.

Just a general comment. I don't get all the uproar. This reminds me of when Marty took over. A lot of guys we thought would never be cut, were cut. To me, this is year one of our new approach. Last year was setting the foundation. It shouldn't be surprising to see some of these people cut. They want their guys on the field, just like about every front office and coaching staff has wanted since the beginning of the game.

Expect a few more shockers as the day unfolds, but hey, relax. All we can do is sit back and see if the decisions prove good or prove to be fatal.

Stop. Just stop. No bashing, but aren't you Mr. Let's all get along?

Oh...as for Greco, I bet he gets a call from the Ravens.

I don't think that Drango, Reiter and Martin all make the team, unless Johnson is put on IR. Even then, this trio would leave the team without a backup T. (unless we think that Drango can play outside, which I do not)

Hope we have some "young vet" blood on line. Foot and age aside Greco has been a soldier for us in multiple positions. Turning a corner doesn't mean you know what is coming. Waiting to see what this weekend holds. I will personally miss him as a fan.

Good luck elsewhere, Greco. Thanks for your work.

Ravens or Colts is my guess

jc -

There's not much that makes sense on the Greco cut other than they don't think he'll be here beyond this year. And even then I think that's a bush league move to cut him this year if that's the rationale. I have to agree that the FO has taken a step back over the last 24 hours based on this move alone. I know the players weren't on board with this (according to GM and what I read over at the OBR). Wonder if the coaches were.

Collaboration means give and take and compromise. I wonder if that's happening, If Hall and Leslie don't make the team I'm really going to be scratching my head.

You're right. Haden got bashed on all the time on here, especially the last couple of years.

You say this...but you got a woody from Joe Banner making our roster decisions, who started as a sports reporter & owner of a clothing store.

You can't this up. The hypocrisy is hilarious.

Absolutely agree, Jester. Well said...

It doesn't remind me of when Marty got here. It reminds me of Farmer. You know, the guy you guys used to love and defend w/a passion every time I questioned one of his moves.

4 o'clock...

I'm wondering if Kenny Britt is safe?

I'm wondering which of our drafted WR's from last year will get the axe?


Hopefully whoever sees the field the most, Kizer gives them good opportunities to succeed.

I'm one of these guys ... i didn't trash him week after week but i always thought he was over rated and i thought he was declining before the injuries ... I think hes not near as good as he once was ....

I also think cutting his was STUPID ...

That makes me the guy your describing ... *L* .... here's my logic ...

Its not about how good u are compared to the rest of the league .. its how good you are compared to the rest of the guys on your team ... so it becomes a question of

- where do u fit in the pecking order ...
- talent/age gap between U and teammates ...
- MONEY
- how do u fit in the new d ...

Those are the big things ... theres more ...

For me ... he was #2 or 3 on our roster right now ... cost was 4 mill (thats what we saved by cutting him .. thats peanuts) ...

I think hes a below average cb in the league but top 3 on our team .... and he may be the #1 in Pitt .. thats one HORRIBLE SECONDARY .... and those other teams looking at him ... they could all use him very badly ...

So thats my logic and how it is possible to think Joe is not very good and cutting him was a bad move ...

Its all in the eyes of the beholder ...

My final 8 (9) cuts:

Kessler

Magee (PS)

Payton

Fabiano

Sterup

King (PS)

Nacua (PS)

Holtz

Murray, if a better CB gets cut which seems likely.

Higgins is probably next on the chopping block if any young-ish, reliable receivers shake loose.

The way I see the Greco cut is...

Would you travel across the country (let's say 16 states) without a proven dedicated spare tire? I sure as hell wouldn't...So the Browns are risking that all of their tires will hold up and protect their new shiny Camaro SS (Kizer)

One blowout to any tire (we lose say Bitinio or any lineman for that matter to IR) we are screwed...our shiny new car (Kizer) then hits and rolls (T-Suggs or someone delivers a blow) Well with our Camaro SS sidelined for a multitude of weeks...

The Browns roll out their 2004 Hyundai Elantra (Cody Kessler) Have fun haha

I don't think he was drafted by anyone was he? I didn't see it in his bio?

I agree. I do not like the Greco cut at all.

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

If the primary reason to cut Greco boils down to their belief he won't be here after this year, then what does that say about this season?

I don't know if thats the primary reason or not but nothing else makes much sense. He's clearly one of the best 6 OL on the team. I would say the drop off after that is severe. He's versatile on the inside. We have starters on the inside that are injury prone. By all accounts he's a good teammate and well liked in the OL room. We have a rookie QB.

If this is an "analytics thing" then IMO you have to put this into the "cons" column of this FO.

Now you are making stuff up. At least about me. I thought the guy was a goof.

But once your spare tire gets punctured (Lis franc injury), How long do you wait to replace it? Sure you try to patch it, but if it's still showing a slow leak (taking longer to recover after games/practice), do you get an affordable new replacement or risk the spare being flat when you need it? The tread is well worn and the warranty is long expired. Plus, you've upgraded your normal tires with the intent of doing more off-roading (Ground and Pound/Using Crow/Power).

I'm kind of ambivalent to the move. We might have gotten one more year out of Greco. He was a good guy and has been reliable and versatile. But, he wasn't slated to start, and we seem to have younger, at least passable alternatives as backups. We're due some luck with injuries, aren't we?

j\c;
Man watta weird team these browns are, by making the worse team in the league worse and, the best team in our division better
Hiring baseball people in the F.O.
Letting go of a good O line man making the worst team worse.
Having 17 players disrespect our flag, country and fans.
Even the first responders in the area want nothing to do with the Browns
Man this is the strangest Pro sports team ever IMO

I think it says what many people thought about it months ago.....this team still has work to do and this season will be another step in the process. I get people are excited about the defense and Kizer (me too) but the roster still has work to do.

I think Haslem even said 2018/2019 will be the year he expects results.

Until then, we need to let our lawyer single-handedly make all the football decision w/o consulting his scouting team for next year.

And for the record, I'm fine with the Greco move. I felt it was coming.

Yeah Rish...I agree all they way...

I mean if Greco was making 10 mill a year...I could see us cutting him...But in all honesty he was perhaps our best bargain signing for the past several years...We had a good starter (Not elite, but not poor either) for cheap when you look at contracts nowadays...

So we just toss him aside...and pray that poor talent translates to a good lineman whom can back-up at least 3 O-lineman positions...Just dont see the logic, nor seeing the Browns wishes taking fruition...We will more than likely have to use one of those guys (scrubs like Martin, Rod Johnson, Reiter) just by this factor...History...

History has shown us Bitinio if often injured, JC Tretter has injury concerns, I think Kevin Zeiter as well...And our RT Shon Coleman has had cancer, and various leg injuries and is unproven...Lucky we have Joe Thomas whom is an Iron-Man...

I just hate how this FO, and many before it...continue to add more holes to an existing team...and expect us to improve...

Maybe by a win or two...but this franchise can't even make it to .500 ball...let alone a wild card birth...and I think that's what everyone wants..We aren't praying for a super bowl...I along with many just want to see a respectable team out there...

Sadly I don't see nothing changing here...We will continue to lose and be in the cellar of the NFL...And you, I, and everyone else on this forum deserve better.

I am quite perplexed by the Greco cut as well...and see both of the spare tire analogies.

What leaves me scratching my head though is why was Greco the 1st Backup after Bitonio got dinged? Drango was our primary LG last year and I don't remember ever seeing him with the 1's this year. I don't remember ANY other backup G's playing with the 1's either...only Greco.

I know Bitonio will be back opening day and all...but one would think that the 1st sub in would be a guy who would make the team. Odd.

That's one we are definitely split on. I don't like it at all. From a talent perspective to the message it sends to the team, I'm struggling to find the logic. Would love to hear a presser that addresses it.