DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Finalize Roster

I am not shocked. In fact, I mentioned in an earlier post that is what happens when you change regimes. Our problem is that we have changed them too often and we keep overhauling the roster. It hasn't worked.

With that said, I think this group is overdoing it a bit. I do know football despite your claims and I try to be fair in my evaluations. I think we have released better players and kept some guys that haven't played as well. It's my opinion and it certainly as outrageous as all the homer claims that are made on a daily basis.

Oh, btw..........I'll probably be defending these guys [Sashi, Depo, Berry, and Hue] after the mob turns on them. Just like always.

What I do not understand is keeping late round draft picks that will end up getting cut next year when this regime brings in 10 new draft picks + a few free agents instead of keeping better players like Barniedge, Haden, and Greco.

The FO has added so much speed and talent to the team keeping players like that and if they would have done what was needed to keep Terrelle Pryor it would have been a better football team this year.

I liked them both too, but;

Never get too exited over a player in pre-season, because many of the plays are against players who wont be playing on Sunday.

Both started the 4th PS game as the 5th and 6th options on our depth chart.

What have Louis and Higgins actually ever done on the field that makes you think they are better? I'm not talking about homer articles written in the off-season. I'm talking about how they have played in games, whether they be regular season or preseason?

I know you know football. That's why I don't understand some of your comments.



I have a feeling this is the course for a good while. Now that the roster is mostly purged we will start to see a direction that makes more sense. Soon enough we won't see all rookies making the team.

true enough, but I did not see the starters make leaping one handed grabs or get the separation that Leslie and Hall did...

I would have liked to see Britt, Coleman, Leslie, Hall, Coates, and Louis as our starters. Seems like a much better lineup to me...anyway here is to hoping that they make it back some how. lol

And it will continue on... we have a LOT of picks in next years draft and I am certain we will keep most if not all of them. We now have the youngest team in the entire league and we got younger today. Next year we will draft a lot of young guys and they will make us even younger. The HOPE is this influx of young players will build a base for this team that will produce good play for years and years to come.... Finding out if that is the case will take a few years. These kids have to grow into veteran players and then we will see if the FO is drafting properly.

We kept 5 and who knows for sure if we are done? Its going to be OJT for Coates, add one more and your down to three WR's who know the offense to start the year.

I think that end the end the unofficial depth chart was vairly accurate.

Every year the coaches begin training camp with the "it does not matter if or where you were drafted.

Every year we are reminded that the front office has a say if it is close.

I think there should be spots for Hall, Leslie, and Shult.

They may not make it to the opener. I presume that the staff are pouring over all the cuts and will hopefully sign a WR or two that were released today. The 53 today may not be the 53 next Sunday.... We shall see. Also, if we had released them they probably wouldn't end up on the PS, the kids we released probably have a better chance at making it back to the PS....

Like this FO was going to cut all three Late round WR draft picks from last season ! To much ego and egg on their face ( Hows that Vers ? ).. Did we just keep five LB's ? And I am not one of the great NFL talent evaporators that this Organization has employed over the years. I watch the games and my Eyes inform me ..

I think Louis sticks around for his Special Teams play.

Higgins has been a disappointment. Wouldn't mind replacing him with Kasen Williams. I want special teams ability for my 5th/6th receivers which he has, he has size, and he has flashed as a pass catcher.

Leslie and Hall both flash, but they need to get more consistent. Hopefully they can develop that on our practice squad.

We must have been watching different guys if you think Louis was good on special teams last year. LOL...dude was horrible.

I was thinking more this preseason.

GC. Been away for a little while

James Burgess? GMAB

Zach Sterup? seriously? GMA Great big Break!

Kai Nacua? GMAB

These guys belong in the NFL over the others who got cut?
What a disservice to putting the best 11 on the field.

I don't like it. I don't Have to like it. Nobody can change it. Boo! Thumbsdown!

Like most NFL teams, Browns give their own draft picks the longest rope

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/...he-longest-rope

They just don't get it.

Next year is when this FO will start replacing some of their picks with new picks, or as many new picks won't be making the team.

Ideally, yes. I still think some of this year's or last year's picks might be PS guys after the next few days. We'll see who we pick up.

One of the reasons I stopped posting and spending time on the sight was because it was so damned obvious that we were going thru a complete redo.

What I mean was that we were going to flip the roster just to flip the roster. I kept saying you NEVER ever rebuild, never.

What you do is you build.

What does that mean?

It means you keep what’s good, and you add to it.

We haven’t done that, and until we have that level of stability we will never ever be truly good.

That has led to several players to opt out of Cleveland. They simply were fed up with the regime changes and with the roster flipping.

When the teams that win consistently hit a bump let’s say in the road they address that need. They don’t rid themselves of their roster they fix what’s wrong. We didn't and aren't doing that. Call it ego call it they thought our situation was so dire it was what needed doing, don't know?

At this point we are in so deep there is no turning back. We decided 2 years ago now that the roster would be flipped, and we have done just that.

This is a strategy they (this regime) are totally into, and they are following that plan. Young players take about 3 years to develop. What that means is even if they’re not all that to begin with, you commit yourself to their development into their 3rd year after drafting them, even if in the case of the Browns it means you cut players that can help your team win now, and at this juncture are better players.

I deplore the strategy because it means losing while you rebuild. A word I have grown to hate.

Come next year’s draft you’ll see some of the players taken in the 1st years of this regime begin to get cut in favor of guys that were drafted. The reason for that is their not developing and they will need the room for the new crop of developing players.

The long term plan is to keep (retain) the guys that show in their 3rd year. Camp next year will be very intense because roster spots will be that much harder for guys to make.

Vers I am pretty sure is about where I am with the roster redo. He recognizes that shipping guys out who can play while keeping draft picks means more losing, but that’s the plan.

I don’t see the value in shipping out good talent ever unless you have a viable replacement. In other words why do it if it doesn’t make you better?

The plan for this year is to lose, just like least year.

With a rookie starting QB, like it or not that’s likely to be the road we travel anyway.

So you let guys like Haden go in favor of youth and development. Its the plan and has been all along. Like it or not (hand raised) its the plan. I can say one thing they are following it to the letter.

This strategy is working I do believe in that part, I just don’t understand the lack of effort to actually win games, but it’s their strategy and as much as I hate it, I do understand it.

The good news is it won’t be as bad as last year, the bad news is it will still be bad. Years 3 and 4 should see this strategy begin to pay dividends, but I again hate losing so I just can’t sign up for this strategy and I think the entire strategy was avoidable.

We had some guys we could have kept and won games with, while fixing what was wrong. The wholesale changes weren’t needed.

Like I said though we are in so deep now there simply is no going back.

Oh and I think this will be Joe's last year in a Browns uniform, at that point the circle so to speak will be complete.

JMHO

Nice post Bone ... not that I agree with all of it (IMO Haden is NOT better than BBC/Taylor/McCourty ... but I do think Greco should still be here).

We'd better hope that a good amount of our draft picks end up being NFL caliber.

What percentage of the snaps did we play w/a Mike in preseason. You keep saying things like the above and I believe you have said that the Mike will play less than 5 percent of the snaps, but it sure seemed like we had a Mike way more than that.

Am I wrong?

Good post.

I am to the point where this team brings me a lot more pain than joy. It's not close. Lately, I've thought a lot about why I even root for them or follow them anymore. The only answer that I can come up w/is that it's all I know.

To me, the Browns are like when you are in a relationship w/someone who cheats on you, lies to you, and brings you very little joy.........but, for some reason you stay w/that person. I never really understood why people stay in abusive relationships and I don't really understand why I care about the Browns.

We have a lawyer making roster decisions. We fire people like crazy. We have no loyalty to our players. We save money by cutting players who are better than their competition while we pay money to guys we have fired and for a 2nd round draft pick. We lose more games than we win every single year and keep overhauling the roster. For every step forward we make, we also take a step backwards.

No harsh realization here, my head us firmly planted in the sand. Please sir may I have another!

It's funny to me when people think the plan is to lose. I mean everyone is entitled to their opinion, but wanting to lose? Not in the game plan.


As far as the roster it does take time to build. Was it necessary to cut some of the vets? Not really. But it probably did help expedite the development of some of the young guys. I'm a firm believer that you improve by playing.

As for WR, I think we will be fine with Britt and Coleman, and one of them (probably Coleman) moves to the slot when Gordon returns in a couple of weeks. I like Louis a lot and I liked Higgins last year, but he obviously needed more work. They obviously see bigger potential in Louis and Higgins than Leslie and Hall. And it's not just a lawyer deciding these things...

The players people want us to be loyal to are the players that lost games. I think for a culture change, and this was a big overtaking, yes a rebuild of this nature may have been necessary.

The front office does an excellent job of keeping things in house, so I'm not sure how anyone could know what they are thinking. The Patriots won a super bowl in Bill's second year. The Packers went to the playoffs in Holmgren's second year. And the Cowboys went 7-9 before they won 3 super bowls in their next 5 years. So let's see what happens this year.

It will be interesting to see what people will say if we achieve similar feats. Do you think they'll admit they were wrong about the front office? Or do you think they'll say, that's great and all but we still did some unnecessary things to get to this point?

What do veteran cuts say about organizational outlook on the season? We are still on the process and not the precipice. What makes me nervous is what Haslam expects. Past history not in Hue's favor. Look what the dude Did to the Pepsi CEO who he hired to take over Pilot. The guy didn't even make it 6 months before Jumbo got the itch. I hope he doesn't have unrealistic expectations.

JMHO, as Browns fans, we have all suffered, many Browns fans have never seen their glory days- in 60s we won lot more than we lost....born in Lakewood, I'll always root for Browns. Every year, we start over- all are 0-0....GO Browns!!!

We haven't fired any personnel people in two years, we have three Harvard grads making player decisions, with input from football minds- we ARE shedding age for drafted youth. Hayden hasn't played well in years, Greco has age and injuries against him....the front office was intact and fully functioning for this year only....time will tell, but so far the results of this years top picks are OUTSTANDING...time will tell.....GO Browns!!!!

I will admit I was wrong. I have admitted to being wrong many times.

On the other hand, the majority won't admit to being wrong if we suck. We had many of these same debates when Farmer was here and when The Big Show was here. The same people keep telling me how dumb I am and how I have agenda each time.

Hope so Hitt. Two years without upheaval. Peen mentioned next year we'll see turnover within regime drafted player base. I think daddy's little cupcake Haslam is going to have unrealistic expectations after pre-season, while Hue is hamstrung by cutting veteran depth.

He's not cheap though. That money we saved on Haden is an illusion. When he jumps into his money pool it's still there. Haden's seven million plus counts against the cap floor, but it isn't really changing hands. It just means it can't be spent. Time to put a high dive on the deep end of the money pool.

Simple really!

If it weren't the plan based off Haslim's track record everyone would have been fired by now, correct?

That said their seats aren't even warm, are they?

Just like Pettine's wasn't. It's a process, but we'll never get to the point where turnover happens within the regime.

Funny, but no.

Their seats better not be warm. As fans we have had to endure 1 and 15 and then see the roster purged of yet more vets. If Haslam thinks this team is primed to compete he would be wrong. If Hue or Harvard was to get fired after this season we as fans would have had to endure these last two years for nothing.

With 5 picks in the first 2 rounds next year and so much salary cap room I am excited about this team showing improvement (maybe 4 to 6 wins) that there will be a real hope for the near future.

Now you know where I have been. I can relate to most of what you say believe it or not.

I get the part about I will be defending the FO and Hue long after you all have jumped ship.

They do have a plan I believe it will work eventually, but not this year. And beyond this year I think the rats will indeed jump ship (they always do).

From there, because like I said there is no turning back, and with what I hope will be the payoff looming in the not so distant future if Haslim flips the FO and staff I will be done, finished.

I was nearly there this time, and I viewed myself as a passionate fan. But at the end of the day there is only so much anyone can take!

I may be back for more but the next change will be the last for me anyways...

Again right.

More assets for the new regime and more money for daddy's little cupcake.

Really Haslim has fired 3 staffs in what 4 years and they all won more then this FO and staff.

I will admit I have very little to go off of, but your not paying attention if you can't see that Haslim has a track record with the attention span of a 3 year old who wants his Binky and wants it NOW.

I guess you can read into things however you like...

If you stood in a field during the past 5 thunderstorms and didn't get struck by lightning I suppose there's no real danger of being outside during the next one...

j/c

I didn't realize that Marcus Martin was still only 23. Feels like he should be older.

I know that a fair number of you are upset about releasing Greco, but I keep coming back to the fact that it makes sense. The FO has preached Draft and develop and a desire for sustained success since they were put in place. Older starters you can live with, but older backups likely won't help you keep getting better. Greco was likely as developed as he was going to get and only going to get worse with age. Harsh, but hard to deny if you look at it objectively. Can anyone think of a guard that has improved after 32? If the guys we kept continue to improve, they have a chance to take over as our current starters decline. If rosters were bigger or you could make sure guys made it to the practice squad, keeping aging veterans for depth would be more feasible. At OL, where backup guards hopefully won't play (unlike other positions that rotate players through), it's easy to get caught up in the numbers game. Greco really only adds value to the team if someone gets hurt, and his future value is dwindling as his career is drawing closer to the end.

You never do.