DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Police, EMS Refuse to Hold Flag at Browns Opener After Players Kneel

There is no rule in their CBA saying they must stand during the anthem.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

I am sure the NFL would love for this to all go away, if they could just tell the players to stand for the anthem , and avoid the bad press, dont you think they would ?

Blah blah blah, there isn't a rule saying they gotta pull down their zipper when they pee either.

Cleveland NAACP says police union's refusal to hold flag at Browns game creates 'racial division'


Updated on September 5, 2017 at 9:09 PM Posted on September 5, 2017 at 6:53 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/09/cleveland_naacp_says_police_un_1.html



By Justin Madden, cleveland.com

jmadden@cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland NAACP said the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association's refusal to hold the flag for the Browns' season opener is "fanning flames of racial division."

A statement released Tuesday afternoon says the branch respects the association's right to free speech under the Constitution, but hopes the union understands the impact a counter-protest has in the community.

"While the NAACP would support the right of the CPPA to engage in whatever counter-demonstration they feel is appropriate, we would hope that they would understand that their actions in refusing to present the flag as a counter-demonstration to these professional athletes are, at best, divisive and, at worse another sign that there still exists a significant cultural gap between the police and the minority community," the statement said. "The people of Cleveland deserve better and the CPPA should lead by example instead of fanning the flames of racial division."

CPPA President Steve Loomis said the union would not participate in the Sept. 10 pregame ceremonies because some Browns players refused to stand for the national anthem last month. Loomis said that is offensive to the sacrifices that people made, allowing the players to enjoy the success that they have.

Loomis said the front office of the Browns condoned the disrespectful behavior of its employees.

Cleveland Police Chief Calvin Williams said the CPPA does not represent the views of all officers within department.


"As law enforcement officers, we took an oath to serve and to protect," he said in a Sunday statement. "We protect the rights of all citizens to express their views as protected by the First Amendment of our constitution, no matter the issue. Our American flag is an important symbol to our great country and we, as officers, will continue to salute it."

This isn't about the flag per se. (<did I do that right?) The national anthem is among other things a moment of gratitude and reflection for the sacrifices made by our military and our police officers for the country we have.

Do the players have a right to do what they're doing? Yes.

Do I (and the majority of NFL fans) like it? No.

As I and others here have repeatedly said, THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO GET YOUR MESSAGE ACROSS THAN TO TAKE THAT MOMENT OF REFLECTION AND MAKE IT ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.

No matter how worthy the cause.

How do we spell hypocrite?

jc

Since when did kneeling become a sign of disrespect? It is not like they sat down on the bench or turned their backs during the anthem.

quote above by MrTed:



Kneeling during the national anthem takes 3-4 minutes, the kneelers would just be standing there anyway.

They won't spend any of their own time advancing social justice.

That's three in a Hot Tub time.

Sorry kid, not in my contract. "SECURITY!"

Since when has the national anthem become about honoring police officers? Are you just adding that narrative in to suit your agenda? So where is the official list of professions that the national anthem is in honor of ? Police? Firefighters? Teachers? Nurses? How about the important role bus drivers play?

No there isnt, so if they chose not to then the league couldnt punish them for it . Not very complicated, really

Companies vary. Some will allow you paid time if you want to participate in a protest (heck some companies will encourage it if they have a particular stake in the protest)... some will allow you to do it on your own time with no repercussions... others have a problem with it if your name is linked to their company and is on "the wrong side" of a protest (keep in mind, the definition of the wrong side is completely up to your employer)... like the push to identify and get those fired who were part of the neo-nazi march in Charlottesville...

Sheriff pulls Mahoning deputies from work for Cleveland Browns
Posted: Sep 04, 2017 5:00 PM EST
Updated: Sep 04, 2017 7:43 PM EST

http://www.wfmj.com/story/36286620/wfmj

CANFIELD, Ohio -

The fallout from the actions by some Cleveland Browns players at a preseason game has spread beyond Cleveland and now includes members of the Mahoning County Sheriffs Department.

Unions representing Cleveland police and paramedics won't take part in the American flag ceremony before the Cleveland Brown's season opener.

The union's refusal to participate comes after several Browns players knelt during the national anthem before a preseason home game last month.

The union's leaders say the display has upset their members.

It also has upset Mahoning County Sheriff Jerry Greene. "The Sheriffs Department has 15 to 20 deputies working up there at any given time during those games. They've been doing it for a while. It's set up as a side job for them," said Greene.

But the sheriff feels there are other ways to make a statement other than our national anthem. "The bottom line is when they kneeled like that I was done with it. I pulled my officers out of there and they're not permitted to work there anymore," Greene said.

A statement by the Brown's organization says, "We have a profound respect for our country's national anthem and flag, at the same time we also respect the great liberties afforded by our country, including freedom of personal expression."

The players knelt only during that one preseason game. The head of the Cleveland Patrolman's Association said that had they continued to kneel at other games he would have advocated for all Cleveland police officers to be pulled from their duties at First Energy Stadium.

So am I the only one who sees some legal issues with this? Since when do police get to pick and choose who they protect, and if they are working off duty, what grounds does this county sheriff have to determine they are not allowed to work that side job? He is a public official, it is not his place to support or deny support based on ideology

Just exactly what 'agenda' would that be? If the anthem doesn't have anything to do with police officers (and you're right it really doesn't) why was Kaepernick protesting POLICE OFFICERS during the anthem?

I think that is awesome.

If I were the police, I would go and hold the flag and then walk out of the stadium arm and arm. No security from police officers during Brown's games.

My biggest wish [that will never happen] is that the fans stage their own protest. Not all fans, obviously. Not fans like Kong, Swish, CHS, etc.........but it would be so cool to go the stadium, stand for the anthem, and then walk out en force after the anthem concludes.

We would be expressing our rights to turn our backs on pampered millionaires who do not appreciate all the opportunities they actually receive in this great country of ours.

Ingrates make me ill!

shut up. all you do is whine now. for being 60 something years old my daughter has more maturity than you.

seriously, grow a pair. You keep my name all up in your mouth but all you do is blow hot air.

you said a few seasons ago that you wasn't gonna root for this team anymore. what happened?

you and all these other posters whining about the protest, either put your money where your mouth is and don't support the team anymore, or shut the hell up and enjoy the game on sunday.

LOL.......shut me up, Mouth!

That's pretty ironic for you of all people to be calling anyone mouth.

So walk your behind out of the stadium, nobody will miss you. Well your family will miss out on the time they would have been able to have away from you.

Easy. I'll just put you on ignore til the season is over with. See ya in 2018.

Wow! You are bringing my family into it???????????

I voiced my opinion on the situation. Swish ran his mouth.

The great thing about you guys who keep talking about "they have the right to kneel" is that not everyone has the right to speak their mind. Only those who agree w/your opinions.

Because I can, and you cant and wont do [censored] about it




You can express your opinion on the situation all you want, but when you say dumb crap like this " My biggest wish [that will never happen] is that the fans stage their own protest. Not all fans, obviously. Not fans like Kong, Swish, CHS, etc." youre going to take shots back. I really couldnt care less if you agree with me or not. I prefer you dont actually, because I would hate to feel that my brain functions in a psychotic fashion.

i was having a discussion on the subject and you decided to call me out , but then cry like a little girl when somone shoota back at you ,

Never considered it before, but maybe you're onto something, Vers. Maybe free speech should be given to everyone. Have you thought about telling our lawmakers this ingenious idea?

That's pretty funny, Kong. Considering how our conversation went when I suggested we meet last summer.

Keep digging, CHS.

I will say the same thing now that I said then. I am not hard to find. You have enough info about me to come get some whenever you feel like getting your old behind handed to you .

You didn't say that at all. LOL.........you have no shame.

Will do until you keep my name out of your posts, #1 Cam Erving Super Fan

Hmmm, well whatever I said then

Thats what I am saying now .

No problem. I didn't ask you to stop. I asked you to keep going. It reveals your true character.

Yeah, now that I am 550 + miles away. Fraud.

Actually I just went back and read the messages, and that is exactly what I said.

Maybe one day you will realize why EVERY single thread you are involved in is you fighting with someone else . Maybe one day you will realize why you are constantly being suspended without using the Charlie Brown excuse

Maybe one day you will realize that I actually am happy that guys like you do not like me.

I have no problem being a problem for those I think are unfair. None at all!

I respect a variety of opinions on this but I just can't find it in me to get that worked up over a symbol. I get what the flag stands for, I love this country and it has a lot of great things to offer but I'm not so naive as to believe it's perfect now, nor has it been in the past. If folks have a beef with our government or some of our institutions and think they can bring attention to it by not standing for the anthem.. ok, whatever.

It's a symbol, they mean different things to different people.. you can look at a flag, like the nazi flag or the confederate flag or the Russian flag or the North Korean flag and see one thing, others look at those same symbols with a sense of pride (for better or worse). Heck for decades the rainbow was a symbol of God delivering Noah's people through the flood, now more people know it as a gay pride symbol... whatever.

You look at the American flag and think of the great things and great victories, the revolutionary war, the world wars, the freedom and prosperity... Others see a symbol that oppressed their ancestors and treated them as barely human for centuries, then moved them up to second class citizens, and is still struggling with what equality really means... Do I see why they don't see that symbol the same way you do? Absolutely I do.

America is great... America could still be better... It's not an attack on all of the soldiers that died or the people who buy football tickets or every cop walking the beat... It's just a call for all of us to be better, to be aware that we have not yet "arrived" at where we need to be...


Why are they pampered? Why are they ingrates? Because they make a lot of money in a country that values entertainment over most other forms of accomplishment? Ok, everybody on this board, raise your hand if you wished through all of your teenage years, that you had the physical tools and the work ethic to be counted among the ingrate pampered athletes? I'll put my hand up first. I wanted to be one of them.. Hell I'm 51 years old and I still wish I could be one of them. This notion that they make a lot of money so they should shut up and be happy is a BS argument. Many of them do go back and try to be roll models for other kids, talk to other kids, give of their time in the community as they can, they start charities, they do appearances... So we want them to use their fame and their influence to do that, we just don't want them to use their fame and influence to try to change us...

For every kid who grew up poor and made it to an NFL roster, there are thousands who didn't.... crappy parenting, crappy education, crappy opportunities, institutional bias... there are many reasons why that is.. so these guys want some of that to change, they want to call attention to it... because they know they can not fix it alone...

Vers, we've chatted on here for years and we've had our agreements and our disagreements.. I have no doubt that you care, I have no doubt that you want to make a difference, I have no doubt that you have seen, first hand, some of the injustice and you want to make positive change... I don't agree with everything Kaep said during his protests, I thought some of it was over the top and mean spirited... but I agree with his underlying message, we can do better... we need to do better... we aren't to the top of the mountain yet... whether you make $10 million/year or $10/hour... it doesn't matter, that message is true.

We (the collective we) should spend more time looking inward and listening to what they are saying and looking for common ground so we can move forward and make things BETTER for everybody... than getting so all worked up about this symbol they are disrespecting to which we have assigned our own value..

Just my $.02

If the NFL wanted to put an end to it, there's plenty of rules governing player conduct they could use.

And yes King, you can choose where and if you'll work an off duty gig. They are voluntary. And yes, an agency can say where and what side jobs you can and can't work. You're wearing their uniform when you do after all.

I don't know, maybe the cops and EMS are being snowflakes... But no.more than the kneeling players. I guess that just means early snow fall in Cleveland this year.

I think the fans should make a statement by getting up and walking out at halftime, unless of course if we are ahead.

I'm more than a little confused here. Your suggestion that police hold the flag and then walk arm and arm out of the stadium. I understand that you feel it sends a message to the players, but isn't what it really does is risk the safety of tens of thousands of fans they were sent there to protect?

I don't have an issue with the police sending some kind of message in response to players protests. Everyone has the right to do this.

But refusing to work the games? It seems to me in the grand scheme of things that refusing to protect the fans at the stadium doesn't harm the players, it risks the safety of the fans.

It doesn't sound to me like this was thought out well.

The great thing about America is that we are all entitled to our opinions, bro.

I am not standing for the anthem, in the united states ever again.

I will stand when I go to London, but that's about it.

Yes, I wasn't questioning their intentions. I was simply questioning the actual overall consequences of their actions and who was actually impacted by them. It seems to me the safety of the fans is the end results.

Well since you are a police officer, I will take your word for it.

So heres my issue. You are not wearing THEIR uniform, you are wearing OUR uniform. The work for the public, they are tax payer funded. SO how can they choose who they are , or are not going to protect?

So police will protect KKK and Nazis, because freedom of speech and all that. But wont protect players who protest how they feel their people are being treated ?

Why isn't something done about the 7,000 Americans who are murdered by African Americans each year in the United States?

That's about 20 people every day.

Twenty people were murdered by African Americans today.

Yesterday, today and tomorrow. And everyday. And everyday last year and the year before. And next year. And the year after that.

This is an incredible slaughter.

Why isn't this front page news everyday.

Instead of "Look, there's a neo nazi across the street. How horrifying."

There's some really screwed-up, tv educated people in the United States.