DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Police, EMS Refuse to Hold Flag at Browns Opener After Players Kneel

I don't agree with a lot that you say, but this right here is the crux of the issue for me.

If the players are protest against police profiling and assaulting them, wouldn't the players be safer if the police were not there?

Protect the players from what? Hurt feelings and criticism from fans who aren't buying their bs narrative? Have you seen the recent story about Michael Bennet completely fabricating a recent run in with police in Vegas last week? If what these players are protesting is so rampant and part of every day life, why they have to keep making stuff up?

And your comment about the police protecting the KKK etc.. its why i dont even see this topic as being worth having. Accusing cops working a KKK rally as having sympathy for them is asinine. 5 cops just got murdered in Dallas last year workinga BLM rally. Yeah, it turned out the dude was only targeting cops, but their initial aftions were based on a belief someone was shooting the protestors.

As to the "we pay your salary"... I think you are still missing the point of extra duty gigs. Things like sporting events, concerts are not part of our jobs. Those venues are required to provide security at their events. Logistically it makes sense to contract with local law enforcement to be that security due to the readily available numbers, plus, they can take enforcement action to solve problems a regular security gaurd can't. But that's a private contract the officers are paid by the venue for their time there. Not the tax payer.

Now parades and protests are a bit different. Those are gigs that require things like blocking roads etc and are paid for by the tax payer. Those gigs they try to take volunteers, but if they dont get enough, we get "voluntold" to work it.

Reminds me of the Super Bowl a few years ago when Beyonce dogged the police w/her performance, but asked for and received a police escort to the stadium so she wouldn't have to battle traffic.

Loud mouthed, disrespectful ingrates.

I've decided I'm just dome with the topic all together. We were told over the last ten years it was time for a 'honest conversation about race'... Yeahthat was a sham. There was never any real intention of having such a thing, and never was about 'understanding'.

People are goimg to say what they want to say, believe what they want to believe. Truth is irrelevant. There's nothing i can say or do to change that. There's so much bs and misinformation that i can hardly take anyone seriously on the subject. I find that i genuinely just don't care about it anymore.

I respect your opinion and I often feel the same way, but I don't think we should give up.

I think you are smart man and a fair man.

I think that those of us who are intelligent and fair-minded need to keep fighting the good fight and point out what is wrong w/the extremists on both sides and continue to improve race relations for those who are open minded.

And Devil............I think that latter group is much larger than most believe.

It is my hope that the objective, fair-minded folks who are accepting of all cultures can overcome the hate and bias of the extremists on both sides.

Don't give up, bro. Keep on fighting the good fight!

If you feel you should, then you should. However, you were the sole bright spot in any discussion about police tactics. I hope you keep posting. We don't agree often, but I always love seeing a thread where you post in.

Caesars' minions are mad that the uppity gladiators can't be fed to the Lions.

BAAM!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopaxkU3ZTg

Not about protecting them, about the freedom of speech question. Freedom of speech must extend to everyone if it extends to anyone.

Yeah. And let's forget about the tens of thousands of fans they are getting paid to protect and serve.

It's a voluntary job they are not obligated to serve and protect unless they take the job.

Yeah, they should choose not to be there to protect tens of thousands of fans because a few players disrespected the flag. That sounds logical to me.

Browns to join police, military in pregame show of unity
https://www.thescore.com/news/1368397

CLEVELAND - The Cleveland Browns will take the field on Sunday with some area police and firefighters in a pregame show of unity.

As part of a broader effort to connect with their community, Cleveland's players also will run onto the field before their season opener against the Pittsburgh Steelers with emergency workers and military personnel. The groups will then stand together for the national anthem.

After some Browns were criticized for kneeling in prayer during the national anthem before a recent exhibition game, several players felt their display was misinterpreted and wanted to do something more to reach out to the community. They first met with owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam and later with Cleveland Police Chief Calvin Williams and other officers to develop a ''neighborhood plan.''

Team spokesman Peter Jean-Baptiste said that may include players riding along with police on patrol and attending area meetings to help strengthen the relationship between police and citizens.

Maybe BLM would do security to support the cause.

Ah, so you're holding a group to equal standing as those who chose to protect and serve as their profession. Got it.

You are actually proving my point. Don't you expect a little more from the police who are professionals that chose being a cop as their profession than you do from the BLM movement? I know I do.

This right here is the best post in the entire thread!

I hold ALL people to the same standard.

I agree. That is a good place for the conversatiion to end.

Yeah, expecting BLM to do the job of policemen sounds perfectly logical. lmao

The whole concept of Freedom of Speech in the Constitution is solely based on the prohibition of the Government to infringe on a person's ability to express themselves.

Technically when they are in uniform (and to some degree when they aren't), these players have ZERO freedom of speech other than what the team allows them to have. And we've seen varying levels of what teams are willing to extend. This has absolutely nothing to do with the police.

If the police are at the venue, they are there for security and public safety, not to make sure players get to protest if they want to.

So what? It's a free country.

Doesn't seem like they're worried or that they may lose their job or be blackballed from work. So it's a pretty hollow gesture, and only works to separate themselves even more from the citizens that they serve. I have no issues either way..it's a free country.

I dont think it serves to separate themselves at all. The majority of fans have little to no use for these player protests, protests whose message is to indict all law enforcement as racist. More people would have understood that a) the cops had zero obligation to work the event amd b) wouldn't blame them for not wanting to work for an organization that allows those players the platform to spread that message.

You guys can't continue to think you can have it both ways: cops should be held to a higher standard in their response to these kinds of things, then bitch about a lack of empathy for the 'common man' when they right you a ticket.

Last year or so our union met to decide if we were going to boycall for a boycott to work the Beyonce concert. Thry couldn't have kept us from working it if we wanted to though (right to work state and all). We were also threatened by the venue coordinator that if we didn't work it they'd lock us out of several future off duty gigs. Seeing as our pay is crap and a lot of younger officers relied on that extra income to make ends meet, our official position was that Beyonce was full of crap, but we'd support the individual officers choice to work or not work it.

But yes, its a free country

I think it shows character or a lack of character depending on how the police react to such situations. I would certainly hope that the police don't use the poor actions of others to act in kind. I expect more from those that chose to protect and serve as their profession than those that didn't.

Wouldn't it be an ideal world if people didn't commit crimes, didn't speed, didn't murder, etc.........and we didn't need cops?

Yet, we aren't there. And consequently, cops get a bad rap.

well cops are sworn to uphold the law, so when the people sworn to uphold the law have a number of cops who aren't, then shouldn't they also be labeled criminals?

would love to live in a world without crime. but that isn't happening. would love to live in a world without crooked cops.

looks like that isn't happening, either.

Fair enough.

Let's boot the bad cops. Let's also boot the bad citizens that require us to need cops. Deal?

fine with me.

I don't believe that cops get a bad rap from most of society. Cops have been around for hundreds of years. There's a segment of society, and there always has been, that people need to be protected from. That will never change.

Cops make a decision to take on that responsibility as their career. They take it on as their duty. I commend them for doing so. Their job is to represent and protect those that follow the law. Nobody forced them to take on that obligation.

As such, they are held to a high standard. Also, as with any large number of people in any profession, you will find both good and bad among that group. When you find people outside of law enforcement that break our laws, they should be held accountable. The same holds true for those within law enforcement.

What I find odd is how far some people will go to uphold the actions of such a small percentage of law enforcement officials who act in an illegal manner just because they wear a badge. Then they try to compare them to people that didn't take on the obligation to protect and serve as though there's actually some equivalency there.

because it's the same reason why you will see guys like Vambo and Haus do their best to point out why people deserve to get shot, yet won't post the articles such as the baltimore cop who got busted planting drug evidence.

but we've had this conversation before bro. civilians who are completely untrained to interact with cops with a gun pointed to their faces are suppose to somehow act rational in calm, while cops who are supposed to be trained in stressful environments constantly get a pass for acting irrational and fearful.

that would be like somebody on this board claiming that a muslim woman in iraq should know how to act rational with a .50 cal pointed at her car, while giving me a pass, even though i'm a trained soldier who just unloaded on a woman just because i feared for my life when i saw a burka.

like...come on.

Good post.

My family and I support the majority of police who fight the thugs and criminals who are a threat to our way of life.

While we acknowledge that there are bad cops and that those guilty law enforcement personnel should be punished, we think that the majority of of cops are good people who get a bad rap from a vocal segment of our population, which includes the liberal media.

Hang in there, Devil and please know that a lot of citizens respect just how tough your job is.

I'm pretty much in agreement with you Swish but the human brain is a really weird piece of equipment. Take your example above, if you have been doing your patrols for 4 months and not much has happened, you are likely to look at the woman as a poor woman in a burka.. if your buddies got blown up by a car being driven by a woman in a burka a week ago, the finger on the trigger of that .50 cal might be just a little more tense... and the more buddies you see blown up by women in burkas the more and more tense that finger will become.. no matter how highly trained you are. It's human nature.